SABRE Tribe Resists Wisdom

[DeletedUser]

Oh, I did not realize you were volunteering. I thought you were employed by the company. If so then I do understand that you have the right to speak as you wish.
I just hope nobody abuses their power and harasses somebody. Not accusing anyone, just saying.

As Jehosophat says we mods are more than professional when it comes to doing our job, but as we do not Mod on the worlds we play there is no opportunity to ever abuse our power even if in the unlikely event of one of us ever wanting to.

 

[DeletedUser]

Integritous, can you see why we have a problem trusting you when every single thing you mailed us is apparently "out of context", "just a bluff", "oops! typo!", "didn't really mean it, I was pissed" ?

I guess I just don't understand how you work things out "in the south". But up here we would never send a mail to another tribe telling them we're willing to declare on an ally without actually considering doing it.

I suppose the mail I quoted offended you but may I remind you that you actually asked for it and all I did was reply.

 

[Integritous]

I'm not offended, I knew precisely what you would post when I called for it, because that is the only thing you have to hang your grandiose theories of Wisdom intrigue and betrayal on.

I WANTED you to post that. It shows how ridiculous your argument is... I mean it is an abstract concept, but we call a message like the one I wrote to .xD a "hypothetical." It involves ideas like "if" and "in theory." Do you really think I would want to mass recruit a tribe I was about to declare war on, only to war my ALLIES?

I'm sorry but you can't just "post a mail" and say "AHA! I proves my pointz!" The mail actually has to mean something. And YOURS is the only tribe who lied about your conduct in the .xD war. I was promised that you would not recruit .xD members, which you did, and I was told you would absent yourself from the .xD war, when suddenly I discovered BA taking .xD inactives as fast as they could, to keep them out of our hands. Let's not forget that one of the reasons we went to war with .xD was to help our ALLIES, the SABRE family, avoid defeat. They were, until we entered, losing badly, despite the heroic efforts of a few. If my purpose was clear enough for them, I'm not sure why it should bother you, 6 Ks away.

You'll learn if you listen more than speak that we respond well if you play nice. But your threats don't float in our pond my man.

 

[netjakdim]

Alright I have soaked quite a bit of this in over the weekend and now it is time for me to post my "BIAS" views as some of you seem to think.
No I am not about to worry anyone about times of declarations and such I have a clear enough picture of that now that I think I have seen some depth into a few of the events. I might bring a question to mind of some of the other non-affiliated folks here on PNP a possible reason for Sabre declaring a suicide mission. Perhaps Valoki is smarter than we give him credit for, just follow me for a second.
Now if Valoki had simply not declared and messed around until Wisdom declared then he would have been the underdog getting his butt handed to him by an offended tribe. However he may have believed that if he was the one to declare that there would have been some sympathy and more willing support of his posts as his tribe was the one being bullied and had to stand up for itself. By him declaring it would make his accusations seem more plausible than if he had not they would just seem like sour grapes and someone trying to get back at a tribe that declared on them.
Unless people are willing to look into things and some leaders be a bit more open I would think that this kind of PROPAGANDA was well planned out. I at first was more than shocked at Sabre Declaring on Wisdom and felt Wisdom was the most likely to have been the offending tribe. There are still some doubts out there but looking back at everything the war would have been a lost cause either way but by Valoki declaring first he would give a little more credit to his side to begin with than if he had waited for Wisdom to declare. Maybe stupid tactical decision but in a way a smart diplomatic decision.

 

[DeletedUser]

Nope. Gee Spec I really pity your situation. Between that PA of yours in SABRE who we won't let up on, and the sum total of your ignorance about Wisdom relations with your own tribe, I can understand why you've been so visibly shaken on here lately.
>

My PA in the SABRE tirbe is my friend and no matter what you do she will survive. She has a nice comfortable village next to me now. .But if attacking my PA gets you off so be it. I do beleve that wisdom likes takeing advantage of a smaller player. If I remember right there where at least 3 members of your mighty tribe trying to take her out all with points over 4 million each. Mind you my PA has....268.660 points at this time. You may hurt her but never take her out.

 

[DeletedUser]

Nope. Gee Spec I really pity your situation. Between that PA of yours in SABRE who we won't let up on, and the sum total of your ignorance about Wisdom relations with your own tribe, I can understand why you've been so visibly shaken on here lately.

But there it is. There is the mail, the ONLY mail, the single piece of written word that has been used as the source, by BA, for every single accusation against Wisdom of being bad allies to SABRE. THAT is the sum total of their case against us, THAT is whence the hysteria arises. :icon_eek:

Well golly gee, you caught me red-handed! I was, on the eve of war with .xD, actually trying my best to betray my oldest allies in the South! It's so brilliant I know!

Thing is though guys, if that's really what happened, why do you think more than 2/3 of the SABRE family remain loyal to Wisdom? Why do you think many of them are now turning their own axe to those hallowed names like "Valoki," and "Talius Brute," who we've proven worked with BA leaders to conspire against us?

I guess we're all just a big bunch of no good idiots down here in the dirty south, lmao!

Oh no wait! It's coming to me now, I think I've got it figured, it must have been... wait for it... something else entirely!!!!

Now it is a wee bit lame of you lying BA turd blossoms to claim possession of my every mail I ever wrote to MM_Hun while not in good faith posting the mails back and forth where I explained to him precisely what my purpose was with the (out of context? Why I never!) mail you post here. But hey after your PnP performance during the Storm war, I expect little else from you.

For the rest though, I will patiently explain what the Flame Hordes refuse to. I wrote that mail to a member of .xD in an attempt to determine the loyalty to the leadership over there. Our war with them has been one against the leaders, whereas most of the rank and file were innocent of any betrayal of Wisdom. So I wanted to ask whether they might leave their tribe to let us have it out with the small bunch who did us wrong. But I had heard they were mightily enjoying their SABRE war, which presumably they knew they would have to abandon if they joined Wisdom, SABRE's longstanding ally. So I was concerned I might get a skewed result. Therefore I asked that hypothetical question in a way as to eliminate his concern about giving up the SABRE war if he left .xD.

That's the truth. I never invited them. I never planned to invite them, or war SABRE. All you boys in the Northwest hopped up on Intysucks, you'll have to chill for a bit and reason it out in order to see it clearly... just please be logical about all this.

If I wanted to war SABRE, first of all I certainly wouldn't need any .xD refugees to help out. Second, I would have done it long before declaring on .xD, because, wait for it again... THEY WERE WARRING SABRE! Why would I declare on a tribe who was warring a Wisdom target? By warring .xD we defended our ally, despite the threats from BA leveled at ourselves and 100I.

We did not war SABRE until they declared on us AFTER letting 14 members of Hordes who we were ALREADY attacking join them, get supported by them against us, and remain in their tribe even after we proved their refugee status quite clearly.

But hey BA, keep posting in these forums involving wars 8 Ks from your core, don't worry it doesn't reinforce anyone's idea that you think it's your birthright to boss the whole world around or anything. :icon_wink:

Wow this was a silly explanation to the mail! :lol: Proved wrong by Memo that it was in fact sent to the leadership ...

Aside from that, can we all see where [BA] have been 'proven' to work with Talius Brute and Valoki when he himself came here and denyed working with us, even Brendan, granted he is an idiot, said we had no communication with SABRE :icon_rolleyes:

I would just like to see the proof, that's all Because thus far, all I see is Wisdom making statements, such as TJ saying MM had more to do with this than yourself? (Hehe) [But respect for no real flame there dude] with no proof, and you constantly saying each mail was wrong, just to disprove them... I just wanna see the evidence, just this once? Please?

 

[DeletedUser]

If Sabre had not taken in and supported the refugees, then yes there would be sympathy for them if the declared because of the alleged bullying by Wisdom. But they did and gave Wisdom a huge legitimate reason to go to war. Valoki's preemptive declaration was a vain attempt to try to set the PnP and emotional tone for the war for the public and to rally his tribe. By all accounts, it has failed miserably. It would have only succeeded if Wisdom had no just cause for war, but Sabre managed to give them big one. No one except the Wisdom haters have sided with them for the most part and the Sabre players are not putting up much resistance.

Valoki didnt need to preemptively declare to make his accusations plausible, especially if he had evidence to back it up. If he did, Sabre may have won more support other than from those that hated wisdom already. And also, Sabre's taking in of refugees makes any accusations if they were true a nonfactor and give wisdom a trump card.

I see this as a miserable and ultimately failed attempt to get other tribes to war Wisdom. Sabre was in a poor position with pretty much nowhere to expand to except through wisdom or soon to be wisdom territory. Knowing that sabre had no chance at beating wisdom one on one, they hoped that they could get tribes to aid their "resistance" by declaring on and defeat wisdom by building sympathy and depicting them as evil. They failed once again and instead managed to break up their family.

No, this was both a stupid tactical decision as long as a stupid diplomatic decision.

 

[netjakdim]

No, this was both a stupid tactical decision as long as a stupid diplomatic decision.

See my point proven sir, you are privy to leadership information so you would have better knowledge than most of us and see things a little clearer. As for certain normal ranked and priveleged players of this world basically I can go by what is in my mail, our tribal forums and here on PNP.
As you would see by much of my posting when this war first broke out there were many issues in my mind that had WISDOM as the BULLY and at fault just trying to fabricate mess that happened to prove their position. I would venture to say that most folks aren't really bothered with contacting involved parties or digging to much in general like I did. Although I did not fully get the responses I wanted to at first and instead recieved quite a bit of name calling and even a couple of rude mails. I continued and found the info I was looking for and managed to form my own opinion. Had I not done any further digging and just went off what all parties were posting I would probably still believe as I did when this thread first started. So to me this was a very good attempt at a final diplomatic maneuver. When you are doomed to be taken from this world would you not with your last attempt still try to slander and place your enemy in a bad light for their future opponents consideration.

 

[DeletedUser]

Actually, I dont think I really contacted anyone. I just used what I heard here, my history with both sides, RL History and general strategy along with common sense to come to my conclusion. Besides, Wisdom's evidence is esseentailly undeniable while Sabre's actions were just plain reckless and stupid. Taking in refugees, no less than 14 of them while supporting them, is an automatic just cause for war. That undeniable fact alone outweighs by far any allegations by Sabre.

Yes, if one is to go down its best to try to do as much damage as possible but at this point Wisdom is now one of the Superpowers in this world and has shown it can handle huge challenges. Besides, if you want to take your opponent down via PnP, its best to use reasoned arguments backed with strong evidence to change peoples minds about wisdom. So far that hasnt happened and this most likely will be forgotten.

 

[DeletedUser]

lying BA turd blossoms

You stay classy Integritous! I tought that my posts were pretty short and polite, providing the information you so wanted me to post. Apparently you felt otherwise.

 

[DeletedUser]

yeah void, you lying turd BA turd blossom?? that makes so little sense i may faint!!

And yeah inty void was very level headed.

 

[DeletedUser]

Do you really think I would want to mass recruit a tribe I was about to declare war on, only to war my ALLIES?

I am sorry to bring up these nasty timelines again, but this part of Inty's post has aroused my interest.

The mail that is being debated here, was sent on the 24th of June, while the 100I players only joined us on the 28th of June. You can check TWstats to confirm that.

So basically, what you are saying is that you were about to declare on us at a time we were still allies to all of you guys?

And I guess this also means that you were about to declare on us at the same time you assured MM several times that you had no intentions of warring us?

I hope you guys can confirm this for us, as it would finally proof a couple of points for us.

 

[kitex1]

the alliance was dropped between wisdom and xd weeks beforehand.

 

[DeletedUser]

You degraded the alliance to a NAP on the 19th of June. Im not sure when exactly the NAP was dropped, but definitely not before the 24th of June.

 

[Integritous]

You stay classy Integritous! I tought that my posts were pretty short and polite, providing the information you so wanted me to post. Apparently you felt otherwise.

My apologies for going over your head there Void! Upon reflection that was a rather erudite Karl Rove reference. Mr. Rove is a political mastermind whose ability to twist truth and win at any cost won him much acclaim, and many enemies.

I sometimes forget to channel the spirits of Plebeian rhetoric before posting here. :icon_redface:

If you look up the name though, you'll see indeed that his friend and boss, President George W. Bush, was the one who coined that precise (and apparently endearing?) nickname, referring to Karl Rove as "Turd Blossom" to this day.

Funny enough, during a campaign in Texas ages ago, Mr. Rove actually planted a listening device in his own candidate's office, then contacted the FBI to claim it was the opponent who had done so... the press ruined his opponent, and it was only AFTER the election that the FBI reached its findings regarding the impossibility of that particular device broadcasting far enough from its source to have actually been planted by the opponent... it was Rove himself, ha!


As for you Jimi, I would prefer you to DENY BA involvement in SABRE's march to war with Wisdom if you think we're lying. Be careful though, because what I've said is true, so you should contact people like Moonchild622 and MM_Hun before you make your claim. I'm sure they'll be honest with you about everything. :icon_wink:

 

[Integritous]

I am sorry to bring up these nasty timelines again, but this part of Inty's post has aroused my interest.

The mail that is being debated here, was sent on the 24th of June, while the 100I players only joined us on the 28th of June. You can check TWstats to confirm that.

So basically, what you are saying is that you were about to declare on us at a time we were still allies to all of you guys?

And I guess this also means that you were about to declare on us at the same time you assured MM several times that you had no intentions of warring us?

I hope you guys can confirm this for us, as it would finally proof a couple of points for us.

You just made me double post. :icon_cry:

I don't answer questions when the questioner already knows the answer and just wants me to answer for dramatic effect. Our war with you was not to do with the 100I refugees, and as you are well aware, our diplomatic relations with you were ended weeks and weeks before we declared. Let's at least TRY to stay on topic here?

As for assurances to MM Hun that we weren't going to war .xD? Ridiculous. Haven't you been paying attention? I told him we WERE considering war against you, after which he promptly recruited one of your members in K94... remember?

You lot are getting soooo tedious. You look for every excuse to try to find fault with us, while refusing to acknowledge the fundamental flaw with your tribes... you are poorly led and full of players who are not skilled enough at this game to prevail. You lost, get over it! We never betrayed your alliance, we never mistreated you while we had relations of any kind, but unfortunately you followed the wrong leaders mate, dear me can we please try to move forward, you really mustn't perseverate about your loss like this!

This game is so realistic in some ways, often reminding us of RL history or warfare, etc. Yet there is one decidedly annoying departure from realism, namely that here, unlike in RL, the dead can haunt you for ages on the PnP, lol. Give it up, move on! Maybe someday I'll be rimmed myself... but believe me I won't be on here a year later griping about the way I was offed!

 

[DeletedUser]

I know our leaders have been at fault as well as you. Im not complaining about that. Furthermore, I have never had the idea that you guys (Wisdom) were plotting war against us when we still had diplomatic ties with you.

The only thing I am pointing out here is that with your remark "Do you really think I would want to mass recruit a tribe I was about to declare war on, only to war my ALLIES?" you imply that either:

1) You were planning war against us before all the shit with 100I went down (something I have never expected you of, but you are now saying)
or
2) The argument "Do you really think I would want to mass recruit a tribe I was about to declare war on, only to war my ALLIES?" is just not valid.

 

[kitex1]

What does it matter?

It happened months ago, why are u still crying about it.

 

[DeletedUser]

What does it matter?

It happened months ago, why are u still crying about it.

Inte i though i was the blunt philospher. Now kitex is getting warmed up!

 

[netjakdim]

What does it matter?

It matters for ones credibility sir.
As for the actual fact of preparing for a war.
Perhaps the fact that xd chose not to help wisdom and
declared on an ally after promising to help against Mojo.
Would have led him to believe that you guys had plans to
attack them with Mojo later on down the road. Any good
leader would get a plan together and start testing the waters
to see where things stood.