~SF~ Declares war on Shadow Family

Discussion in 'World 75' started by jlovekamp, Aug 29, 2014.

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  1. heartlessfool

    heartlessfool Still Going Strong

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    Are you going to win a world with your strategy? no

    did that rank 1 player merging only and never attacking win the world no usually he is rimmed because people realise he cannot fight.
     
  2. GodofLight

    GodofLight Well-Known Member

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    what you fail to grasp is that I'm suggesting if he won using that strategy. not if he lost using that strategy.

    Who knows, maybe it will... maybe it won't
     
  3. heartlessfool

    heartlessfool Still Going Strong

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    It was my example you are using. You quoted me wrong and said if he won then it was a good strategy. I corrected you and said i said he got to rank 1 not that he won, so it is you who failed to grasp what was said.


    Also you can win a fight without strategy here is an example as you think winning means strategy

    200 men fight 1 man, the 200 men win but lose 199 men so only 1 is left

    Who had the better strategy? the loser killed 199 and the winner killed 1.

    You do not understand the meaning of strategy and think victory means good strategy but it does not.
     
  4. GodofLight

    GodofLight Well-Known Member

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    But that last man is the victor? no? doesn't matter how many men it takes to kill that one. if they kill that one man then that is a victory. and let's be real, if it takes 200 men to kill 1 then that 1 is beyond human and if he has some weird superpowers then 199 men falling would be a victory. You can't possibly say who had the better strategy, maybe these 200 men fought knowing the odds against that 1 man.

    Yep, you pointed something out and I gave a scenario, which you changed

    strategy is all about winning. no point planning something to lose?(well, I'll correct myself, sometimes the long term strategy requires sacrifices) as history shows, you may lose the battle but can still win the war. short term strategy is bound to fail... it's all about the end result.

    We can talk about strategy all day, how you think it works or how I think it works.... but at the end of the day, strategy comes down to what you want to gain from it
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2014
  5. Tyrion.Lannister

    Tyrion.Lannister New Member

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    As another member of SF, even I have to disagree with you in terms of this scenario, GodOfLight.

    We got incredibly lucky with Shadow, their troops were on the opposite front line, they weren't quite prepared for what came. It was no grand strategy, it was just an unfortunate turn of events for them, and fortunate for us. That strategy won't win a world, nor is it a good way to win the world. The better players and tribes'll eventually just roll over you.

    Getting to rank 5 for us was great, considering the position we're in, surrounded from all sides. But is it that impressive? No, we again got lucky.

    Arrow and Hood turned to Reborn, Reborn crumbled the second they saw incomings due to to the merging that took place, so that challenge was pushed away. 333 was busy with Jager, so they weren't looking for an extra war with us, so we were left alone. Old/Fart were busy with @Night, so left us alone. Due to diplomacy we befriended Merge, and that simply left Shadow, who weren't prepared for us.

    We haven't had a difficult time, or a proper war. We've flipped a coin repeatedly and come out ahead, so please don't come to the forum and start flaunting how we're some underdog taking the world by storm, because the real fights haven't even started yet.

    EDIT - Not to say there's been zero skill involved along the way, we've had our moments.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2014
  6. DreamSweeper

    DreamSweeper Guest

    I like this guy ^
     
  7. Heckin Bamboozled

    Heckin Bamboozled Non-stop Poster

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    + 1
     
  8. heartlessfool

    heartlessfool Still Going Strong

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    You are relating strategy to winning but that is not true, you plan to win but you can still be strategically better and lose, it is not planned but sometimes there is no way to win, the 300 leonidis strategically placed his men in the mountain pass to hold back an army, he lost but he still was better at strategy than the persians who just overwhelmed with there numbers, not strategy. The romans just plowed straight through the middle knowing they had superior numbers, they crushed armies due to well trained men and numbers, also top equipment, hanibal came along and kicked ass because he was a great strategist. England fighting the french in the battle of agincourt, the English killed 10-1 because they used the terrain well.

    Your long term strategy sucks, your short term strategy sucks, You have won through outnumbering your enemies nothing else, you have not looked at the big picture. Everyone thinks you will lose and your strategy sucks, go ingame prove us wrong but so far you have not shown good strategy just having lots of numbers on your side.

    You say 1 man cannot kill so many unless he is superhuman but look at the battle of roarks drift 139 (35 were sick) vs 4000 were they super human to win? they lost 17 men and killed too many.

    1 man can kill 200 without super powers, how many americans did it take to press that button that nuked japan in the second world war? 1 and he killed far more than 200. and it took far more than 200 to kill him. Infact the japanese were the great strategist of that war and they lost, they snuck up to america and snuck in and destroyed pearl habour, making America look one way and going another, they lost because the general backed off saying it was wrong and let the americans get back on there feet.
     
  9. GodofLight

    GodofLight Well-Known Member

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    Great moral booster (Y)

    I won't argue with a comrade, but don't make the Shadow war sound as if it has been a walk in the park... only a handful of us have gained villages. I have killed more enemy troops than you but have gained 0 villages to your 8

    And I never said we were an underdog, we were branded an underdog... just stating that we have made it far past other peoples expectations
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2014
  10. Tyrion.Lannister

    Tyrion.Lannister New Member

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    It's not meant to boost, nor diminish morale. I'm being realistic so you don't take our recent success to your head and think we can take on the entire world. I'm also giving the forum population a bit of information on what's happened, because I know I much prefer reading an honest listing of events, rather than a blown up exaggerated string of propagandist nonsense. We're a tribe with a couple of solid players, but we're no all-star team, and there's certainly no need to be on the forums making fools of ourselves.
     
  11. Volgstaf

    Volgstaf Guest


    Everyone likes Tyrion, he's the likeable Lannister. :icon_surprised:
     
  12. ODkiPPeroo

    ODkiPPeroo Guest

    That doucher killed his dad! His family loses without him =D
     
  13. Takahashi8

    Takahashi8 Well-Known Member

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    Give this man a cookie
     
  14. Tyrion.Lannister

    Tyrion.Lannister New Member

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    Spoilers!
     
  15. greenmonsta

    greenmonsta Part of the Furniture

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    Having played this game for a very long time, and having witnessed and being involved in various different strategies when leading a tribe, I can give you a few reasons as to why you're doing well against these tribes.

    Firstly Shadow, they are a family tribe (yes I know I am a part of it) and family tribes are usually just lots of players looking for protection in a mass of player with possibly a solid core of 3-4 players that are actually quite good. In this case, when the players that believe they are safe being huddled between tribemates and allies see incomings, there's a high chance they will split or quit. There is generally little communication between members in family tribes as they all believe they are safe in their numbers and thus no real friendships are made within the tribe, therefore players have no loyalties and are more likely to 'spy'.
    Granted my knowledge is limited here as I haven't had much time to play or get involved in politics so I could be wrong, but that's generally how it goes with family tribes of this nature, on top of that you guys were allied to us and as far as I'm aware (again a communication issue) we received no warning of an ally attacking us or even the potential of it occurring. so as you said, you managed to hit us from behind when we thought our backs were safe. Personally I'd put that down to good tactics and good planning on your part as opposed to luck. A dirty tactic but one I can't say I haven't used myself in the past.

    As for the Reborn war you took part in, again I would say that was down to timing. The two tribes merged, hadn't had any time to organize themselves or get to know each other and you seized the opportunity to take a large portion of the world while chaos reigned.

    All in all I can only put these victories down to mainly very good tactics on the part of the leaders, a good understanding of the diplomacy on the world and a good knowledge of what goes on within various tribes. I have to say that personally it looks like you're trying to downplay your tactics as luck for pretty obvious reasons. Again, I say this from experiences of my own leadership styles and not just from guesswork and assumption. Although I will admit as I have previously in this post, that I have a limited knowledge of the diplomacy of this world.

    To put this post in a quick summary, I'm basically saying that I don't believe you keep getting 'lucky' as you have mentioned and I fully believe you know exactly what you are doing. I'm just congratulating you in your tactics and I'm watching to see how it continues.
     
  16. jlovekamp

    jlovekamp Guest

    Ok, ok, ok.......So I often resort to leaving the externals alone but wanted to jump on and say a couple things real real quick.

    Sooo, everybody thought that we were weak against Reborn and Merge did all the work to bring down that top 10 tribe right? Well, it appears that this time, we did all the work to bring down a top 10 tribe.
    [​IMG]

    Now, I am not saying in no way that this puts ~SF~ among the board with the elites. Nor am I saying that we will win this world. But, I will say, that with all the negative comments in regards to how far we would go, I would say we have progressed quite nicely. Becoming a top 10 tribe is hard enough in itself. A top 5, well, that is something worth bragging about considering we have not done it thru massive tribe mergers, etc.

    Now, war stats.....well, not really a lot to brag about, but being ranked top 5 is decent. Especially when your conquer ratio is a 12.9. Which I might add is the highest among any tribe with more than 50 conquers in wars.
    [​IMG]

    Now, I will agree with Tyrionn to an extent. We are not a super elite tribe. We are not a tribe built around 30 top tier players. But, I will not agree with the whole luck portion. This tribe has used all of knowledge and know how to get where we are. Whether that means feeding off the corpses of the less fortunate, or taking the war to the big guys, we have stood our ground, and quite nicely I might add. Tactics is the #1 game play that any player of TW has and can use to their advantage. It is the 1 single part of the game that you have some control over. It isnt always about fighting a war with a tribe to make them give up. Sometimes it is a matter of creating confusion. Creating chaos, discord, disbelief. Raising the suspicion level of certain members and/or allys. It is a game of tactics. Those who use them, usually survive. Those who are subjected to them, usually fall. But luck, by no means has brought this tribe as far as it has. There has been some luck along the way, but ultimately the tactics, game play and strategies of the leaders have brought us through.

    I am by no means saying that a larger tribe might not take us down, but I am saying that I believe we have justified and proven our point that we are not a tribe full of push overs as everyone has been saying, and thus exaggerating since day 1.

    Lets all remember, I stated several weeks ago that there were 3 tribes remaining that had been here since day 1. When Shadow finally disbands, that will leave 2. Sometimes the longevity of a team comes thru more than 35 members of a newly created team.

    jlovekamp
     
  17. Evilclownhateyou

    Evilclownhateyou Contributing Poster

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    Curious how this war is going looks like shadow lost a lot of players by recruitment yet also 333 has lost players and so has SF very interesting I wonder what is happening here.
     
  18. ODkiPPeroo

    ODkiPPeroo Guest

    Since this thread got bumped, I wanted to add something to the haters trying to downplay the achievements of not just SF but any tribe that they feel used "dirty, cheating, unorthodox etc" methods to win a war, expand or simply gain ground. Those methods may seem cheap to one person but for all the person knows, that was the best option, or maybe even the only option. Winning does not necessarily make you good, but it DOES mean you applied the superior strategy. That strategy may have started as something as simple as we need to move X direction and through countless hours on skype and researching in game and on external sites, days/weeks/months of planning and setup, and late nights and stressful days the strategy was finally decided upon.

    At the end of the day, just because one or two people do not agree with how something was done, does not make it wrong. If it is not against the actual Tribal Wars rules then it is acceptable, usable, and even maybe meta shifting or imitated in the future. Just because one or two people did not have the balls or time or planning to attempt said strategy does not make any less relevant or justified. So YES i do believe that bragging is in order regardless of what happened, as long as you deserved the win.

    Good job on taking down shadow SF, and welcome to war guys, its not meant to be fair.
     
  19. Evilclownhateyou

    Evilclownhateyou Contributing Poster

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    Sorry Odi I wasn't downplaying the war is still going to be honest. So don't consider SF winners. My thoughts are a couple of SF players have actually left the tribe and joined another one. Also that said tribe one who has left 333(who is leading that tribe guessing maybe more follow). Pretty much every tribe was nobling shadow yet the bulk of the nobling was done by SF. They did good but seems internal issues are rising in them.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2014
  20. ODkiPPeroo

    ODkiPPeroo Guest

    I was just using SF as an example, but you are definitely right, they have not technically won yet and Shadow is putting up quite the fight for being attacked from so many sides. I do not know what is going on with Jlove, he must have gotten bored =P