Spies

DeletedUser117534

Guest
I agree with Jasper. It's a matter of principles and preferences. Before 96 opened I told the council that we won't be using spies and we haven't. I turned down multiple spying offers but I admit it was often tempting to accept.
We gathered Intel by listeneing what people have to say without element of encouragement from our side, knowing true intentions of tribes in early game was often enough to have effective diplo and prepare pre stacks. I think we played it well.
 
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ampac

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Wow guys, are u saying any information gathered for the tribe if information are gathered ill means is wrong?

Any information for the safety and growth for the tribesmate will be accepted.

Are you telling me if you have info, regarding a whole world opp on your tribemate your not going to get it? even if it means that your tribemate who is a loyal player who always do everything the tribe leadership and sacrifices his time and effort for the tribe will be nobled out your not gonna get that information?

Then I say your not fit to be leaders...

Meh...its rare for leaders to not jump on opurtunities that are presented to them, if this is the case you cant win the world by having no information on the enemy

This is my opinion, ,my personal opinion in playing this game for 12 years
 
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blckdrgn1

Guest
... No.

You set the bar wherever you wish, if the enemy sets it low and you stoop to their level you aren't dealing with them fairly by doing the same but you are showing clear discrimination against them.
Unless everyone spies on every tribe, your conscious decision to do the same to 1 enemy can not be considered fair.

If someone pulls a knife in a fist fight it wouldnt be fair unless both had knifes. Same thing with spies :) although, Obey prefers to fight without spies.
 

the nemesis123

Guest
It's fair to use whatever tool you have in your arsenal within the means of the game, spies are one such tool. It takes a pretty arrogant leader to deliberately handicap yourself to give the rest of the field a chance. Personally though, I'm a fan of arrogance, even if it is hidden by such bullshit as "honour" and "principles".
 

Apathetic h0llygh0st

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It's fair to use whatever tool you have in your arsenal within the means of the game, spies are one such tool. It takes a pretty arrogant leader to deliberately handicap yourself to give the rest of the field a chance. Personally though, I'm a fan of arrogance, even if it is hidden by such bullshit as "honour" and "principles".

Heh :)

If someone pulls a knife in a fist fight it wouldnt be fair unless both had knifes. Same thing with spies :) although, Obey prefers to fight without spies.

This is the playground equivalent of saying "But he did it first :( "
Did you need to win with spies, or did you feel justified because the other side eventually used them as well?
Because Obey started with it. They brought the knife to the fistfight.
 
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blckdrgn1

Guest
Heh :)



This is the playground equivalent of saying "But he did it first :( "
Did you need to win with spies, or did you feel justified because the other side eventually used them as well?
Because Obey started with it. They brought the knife to the fistfight.

Lol when did we have a spy? Onus of proof is on you sir. Prove that we were the first.
 
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DeletedUser117534

Guest
Wow guys, are u saying any information gathered for the tribe if information are gathered ill means is wrong?

Any information for the safety and growth for the tribesmate will be accepted.

Are you telling me if you have info, regarding a whole world opp on your tribemate your not going to get it? even if it means that your tribemate who is a loyal player who always do everything the tribe leadership and sacrifices his time and effort for the tribe will be nobled out your not gonna get that information?

Then I say your not fit to be leaders...

Meh...its rare for leaders to not jump on opurtunities that are presented to them, if this is the case you cant win the world by having no information on the enemy

This is my opinion, ,my personal opinion in playing this game for 12 years

Ampac there is a destination between accepting people to be spies or encourage people to spy and players who leak information voluntarily.

Before we started W96 we knew we will have a very strong roster so yes we decided to be a bit arrogant and try to win it without merges, enemy recruitment or spies. We knew it will be a challenge but the tribe needed one.

Those assumptions are very black and white for a very complex social game that tribal wars is where half of the time you operate in the grey area.

Take the example of Aakattack, he was a good friend of Fredrik who spawned too far from us to be recruited in week 1. I told him we would find a way to get him to the tribe later on. He joined TIP our enemies a day later and would talk to Frederik about what is going on in TIP. Was he a spy? Yes he was but then he was offered a spot in Obey before I knew he would join TIP and he joined them as his Romanian premade collapsed and TIP send him an invite.

I had his sit few times with an opportunity to check TIP's forums etc but I didn't, you can call it stupid but I call it fair play.

We fought SBAD later on but while we were still allies SBAD players would send me random messages leaking info like a sieve. I used the info the best I could but never encouraged them to do it or offer anything in exchange and i felt ok with that.

Superdog is another example; I told Mitch and his Dutch friends on week 1 that I will recruit them later on. I didn't know them well so I wanted to test them a bit and didn't want to recruit over 34 accounts that early. We added them to our Skype group and worked with them as they were part of Obey, it has lasted for 5-6 weeks when finally it was time for an invite. I am sure during the time Obey would get info on Apex or Escape through Superdog account, once we recruited it has been called a cheap sneaky shot against Apex, Mitchell was called a spy but again he was part of OBEY and joined Apex under pressure of being taken out by Escape.

I had players offering to spy against their tribes including SBAD, TIP, WET, Legion, Escape, you name it. Some asked for protection, recruitment or they just wanted to full around, my answer to those players was always no. How could I trust a person who is offering to betray his/her tribe?

Ampac you ask me if i wouldn't accept Intel about a tribe-wide OP on one of my members? Of course I would just like any other leader. But reality is that this sort of Intel doesn't fall from the sky as a gift, you need to actively look for it convincing people to betray their tribes and I simply refuse to do it.

I remember I argued with DA once whether you can have a tribe that would always act ethically and fair play, now I know DA was right and there are no such tribes, this game is rarely about making the right choices, with all its complexity it is difficult enough to avoid making the really bad ones.
 
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DisplayOnly

Guest
I remember I argued with DA once whether you can have a tribe that would always act ethically and fair play, now I know DA was right and there are no such tribes

Such tribes exist. W93 royale for example, Sejn and I had plenty of people offer to spy for us but ultimately we were both just too lazy to bother talking to some strangers. Not sure how people have the energy for that :D. just play with people you like and thats it.
 

blckdrgn1

Guest
Any tribe can handicap themselves as much as they like. Or they can use as many angles of attack on their enemy as they want. This is a war game after all where its kill or be killed and the goal is to win. Only snowflakes cry about "fairness."

There are tribes who are happy to merge with the enemy to win and use spies at every opportunity. Obey is not one of those tribes. Have we had leaked info given to us? Yes. Have some of our tribe members had friends in other tribes who gave them info? Yep. Were we the first? Not by far lol we wont be the last either.

We did turn down tons of opportunities though, far more than we accepted. We even turned down recruiting Britney Spears/Diane Kruger, twice. They were the backbone of our enemies because of that and look how they are doing without them. Imagine if we had recruited them. Right now we have had a lot of wet/dry players ask for invites but we dont want to win that way. Kills the fun for us if its just an easy boring win.

I think this has been a great world. Since we defeated SBAD it has been the world vs Obey and Vape. We had mud slung at us constantly all through this world yet we are still here standing tall. We will keep fighting our hardest because we are far from the win, hopefully our enemies do also. We've dealt with several backstabs, spies in our tribe, taken big losses when enemy ops hit us or vape, but we wont give up. If we win, or if we lose, it will still be a worthwhile world to all involved because it was a great struggle for power and I hope every one has had fun so far and I'm looking forward to the rest of the world :)

Let's play!
 

the nemesis123

Guest
I remember I argued with DA once whether you can have a tribe that would always act ethically and fair play, now I know DA was right and there are no such tribes, this game is rarely about making the right choices, with all its complexity it is difficult enough to avoid making the really bad ones.

I like to think such a tribe exists, but what you find is that even if the leaders adhere to that, it does not necessarily mean the tribe overall does. Even if you do, you can be perceived certain ways anyways. Obey may well be a great example of that, where I think although you may have not been taking spies etc., others were and from my knowledge of certain players in Obey, actively seeking out information from other tribes. I've had it on W87 where I perhaps spoke about 20 minutes to anyone outside of my tribe who wasn't being directly recruited as leader the entire world and the accusations were still there, still are there every world.

I think my main point in that argument back then is that I don't really believe in honour. If it does exist, it is a silent sort of thing. What I find is that a lot of people like to parade the fact they play fair, ethically, honourably and do not use spies. There are two types of people who do this in my mind:

1. The dirtiest, sleaziest sorts
2. The most arrogant sorts

In my opinion it can exist, but generally where you think it does. It really doesn't. And that's fine, there's nothing wrong with using spies any more than there is wrong with using scouts.
 

mantra

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Medievel Japan, is a true depiction of how war is or was fought, full of spies, assassins, arrogant dictators, backstabbing and a lot of false honour and respect. ! based on that Tokugawa dynasty was shogun for 250 years
 

THE MURPH ALL CAPS

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I like to think such a tribe exists, but what you find is that even if the leaders adhere to that, it does not necessarily mean the tribe overall does. Even if you do, you can be perceived certain ways anyways. Obey may well be a great example of that, where I think although you may have not been taking spies etc., others were and from my knowledge of certain players in Obey, actively seeking out information from other tribes. I've had it on W87 where I perhaps spoke about 20 minutes to anyone outside of my tribe who wasn't being directly recruited as leader the entire world and the accusations were still there, still are there every world.

I think my main point in that argument back then is that I don't really believe in honour. If it does exist, it is a silent sort of thing. What I find is that a lot of people like to parade the fact they play fair, ethically, honourably and do not use spies. There are two types of people who do this in my mind:

1. The dirtiest, sleaziest sorts
2. The most arrogant sorts

In my opinion it can exist, but generally where you think it does. It really doesn't. And that's fine, there's nothing wrong with using spies any more than there is wrong with using scouts.

Life is unethical. Therefore you can never have such a tribe. Especially in a game like tw.
 

the nemesis123

Guest
The great thing about TW is that you can play it as dumb as you want and as long as you are good enough you can get away with it. That's the only reason I reserve space for tribes who don't do any "dirty play" whatsoever.
 
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