Stats and Predictions - Top 10 tribes

DeletedUser93954

Guest
Your friends list grows shorter by the day too I bet...
I'm not sure about you, but I hate tribal hugs, so I'm perfectly fine with having "no friends". Oh, the friends I have in TEA don't count, after all, we're going to be alone ;)
I'm a warmonger, I uphold the standard of Tribal WARS. I dislike family tribes. I dislike coalitions. I dislike merge-to-win. I dislike academy tribes. You know what I do like? Fighting cowards who dislike war, and a lot of them can be found in my list of dislikes.

Not a backstabber or a betrayer but not opposed to using betrayers and backstabbers.

Not that it is an invalid way to play the game, if anything it is optimal. It really depends on your character, a lot of honourable, honest people end up as losers unless they are really good at the game. Liars, cheaters, backstabbers and those who claim to merely navigate that world do succeed. This is the same in real life.

For me personally, I'd rather fail. That is just who I am. I think TW cannot be classed the same as a game of monopoly, I think your conduct here to an extent reflects on your character in real life as there is a significant real life investment into this game. Yes, be who you want to be, but you can see who you really are through this game. That's why I, at least, value these traits that are suboptimal for gameplay, because that is what I value in people in real life.

I cannot know whether TEA are what people claim they are or not, but I thought I'd mention this as I think it is important with all the glorifying of this sort of play over recent worlds.
This was an interesting read, so let me say a few things in response.

Firstly, I can appreciate a player who holds themselves to a high moral standard. It is admirable, and I never said it wasn't. However, I do not respect those who cry over such tactics if they either fall for them or are affected by them. Someone who cries over spilt milk isn't taking the time to clean said spilt milk, opting instead to stand, unmoving, crying over said mess. It's the same with the people who show outrage towards betrayers or spies or other such actions. If you're making a noise about being upset over being betrayed, you're not helping your situation by not fixing the issue. The type of person I respect who holds themselves to a high moral standard wouldn't cry about it, and instead make moves to combat the issues that have arisen. THAT is the sort of mind set an honourable person should have, and is the trait that separates the fakers from the truly honourable people.

Secondly, the theory about how your TW personality reflects who you are IRL is an interesting thought, and I believe it does hold true to a certain extent. I'm a bit of a stat whore IG, and IRL I dislike not knowing things. I often enjoyed being in a diplomatic position, which I believe has been reflected in my life as well, for example, a family member was seeing a psychologist who seemed to be crap at their job, and I was able to make a few guesses as to how/why, even though I myself am not a psychologist in the slightest. My guesses made sense to not only the family member who felt like they were getting nowhere, but to their doctor as well as the other psychologist they went to afterwards. Now, the reason why I say that TW personalty = IRL personality is to a certain extent is that whilst I'm neutral to immoral tactics in game, I'm 100% dead-set against immoral things in the real world.
 

the nemesis123

Guest
This was an interesting read, so let me say a few things in response.

Firstly, I can appreciate a player who holds themselves to a high moral standard. It is admirable, and I never said it wasn't. However, I do not respect those who cry over such tactics if they either fall for them or are affected by them. Someone who cries over spilt milk isn't taking the time to clean said spilt milk, opting instead to stand, unmoving, crying over said mess. It's the same with the people who show outrage towards betrayers or spies or other such actions. If you're making a noise about being upset over being betrayed, you're not helping your situation by not fixing the issue. The type of person I respect who holds themselves to a high moral standard wouldn't cry about it, and instead make moves to combat the issues that have arisen. THAT is the sort of mind set an honourable person should have, and is the trait that separates the fakers from the truly honourable people.

Secondly, the theory about how your TW personality reflects who you are IRL is an interesting thought, and I believe it does hold true to a certain extent. I'm a bit of a stat whore IG, and IRL I dislike not knowing things. I often enjoyed being in a diplomatic position, which I believe has been reflected in my life as well, for example, a family member was seeing a psychologist who seemed to be crap at their job, and I was able to make a few guesses as to how/why, even though I myself am not a psychologist in the slightest. My guesses made sense to not only the family member who felt like they were getting nowhere, but to their doctor as well as the other psychologist they went to afterwards. Now, the reason why I say that TW personalty = IRL personality is to a certain extent is that whilst I'm neutral to immoral tactics in game, I'm 100% dead-set against immoral things in the real world.
I suppose that comes down to who you really are. I think most people adopt somewhat of a facade in real life that allows them to operate easily or give out a certain persona within the real world. Perhaps I am a tad cynical here, but I think Tribal Wars, a game without any real influence, for the most part, on your real life is where you can come out from behind the formalities of what you are in the real world and try be who you want to be without many consequences. That's why I observe people's TW persona.

My opinion on the general spy and backstabbing issue is that if it happened to me and I lost, it was because they were better in the majority of cases. Spies suck in general and top level leadership should be ready for backstabbing, you can see what your neighbours are on a map. I don't understand people who cry about being backstabbed. I'll happily stack against allied fronts because the diplomacy does not actually mean anything, especially nowadays. Preparation is king. The thing is these shady elements don't actually matter too much at the top level to the point of uselessness and meaningless, essentially Golden wins W83 because they were a better tribe, same when my tribes have won worlds.

Spies, traitors and backstabbers are the plague of mediocre tribes, especially since they obsess about them creating spectres bigger than the threat itself. That said, since most tribes have lots of flaws and make lots of mistakes, it is still optimal to go through these methods nowadays since there is little punishment for this conduct like there would be in an older world.
 

DeletedUser119848

Guest
I think everyone needs to get over themselves, spies, traitors, and backstabbers have been part of tribalwars since ever, specially when the tribe isnt at all in a good environment letting people, yes guys, people (since we're all humans) feel unconfortable being where they are, yes we all know it is a war game, so just fight? how ridiculous that sounds? how have REAL wars been won? not by strenght but by getting outsmarted. First step to win the game, think ahead of urselves, not saying backstabbing is way to victory or that is honorable, but all this whine and crying over and over, Liders NEED to be smart to win worlds,thats actually one of the most important parts of being a lider, or co lider wtv, knowing how the game works, all strategies and what to do everytime , luckly I believe that my dukes on TEA are really doing a good job, its been great playing aside this great players under great dukes
 

Mithrae

Guest
Not a backstabber or a betrayer but not opposed to using betrayers and backstabbers.

Not that it is an invalid way to play the game, if anything it is optimal. It really depends on your character, a lot of honourable, honest people end up as losers unless they are really good at the game. Liars, cheaters, backstabbers and those who claim to merely navigate that world do succeed. This is the same in real life.

For me personally, I'd rather fail. That is just who I am. I think TW cannot be classed the same as a game of monopoly, I think your conduct here to an extent reflects on your character in real life as there is a significant real life investment into this game. Yes, be who you want to be, but you can see who you really are through this game. That's why I, at least, value these traits that are suboptimal for gameplay, because that is what I value in people in real life.

I cannot know whether TEA are what people claim they are or not, but I thought I'd mention this as I think it is important with all the glorifying of this sort of play over recent worlds.
I don't think someone's style of gameplay necessarily reflects on their character in real life, though I'm sure it sometimes does. I just don't like those kinds of behaviours because they are playing the people instead of playing the game.

The name of the game is Tribal Wars, not spy wars or psychology wars or weaklings-trying-to-save-their-own-pixels wars. Not that I particularly like diplomatic 'backstabbing,' one tribe to another, but at least in that case it's the interaction of two entities who by definition should be wary of each other as rivals (especially on worlds without allied wins). But tribes are supposed to be a group of people working together against other tribes, not against each other. The far too common tendency for people to betray their own tribes in one way or another, or tribes to betray their own members - and the regular defence of it as "part of the game" despite being contrary to the very name and cooperative nature of the game - really diminishes the experience.

Of course decent tribes should always be aware of and prepared for the possibility of spies and suchlike, but when it's so common and accepted that you often can't even trust people you know from previous worlds, it really can make for a less than perfect tribal environment.
 
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DeletedUser93954

Guest
But with that said, you must ask why people are betraying in the first place. If you can identify that, you can either decrease the chance of betrayals happening, or nullify the chance at all.
Plus, the tribal part doesn't dictate anything, the war does, and psychological war has always been half the battle throughout history.
 

Mithrae

Guest
But with that said, you must ask why people are betraying in the first place. If you can identify that, you can either decrease the chance of betrayals happening, or nullify the chance at all.
Plus, the tribal part doesn't dictate anything, the war does, and psychological war has always been half the battle throughout history.
No, you can't nullify that chance. Even before a world begins, if there's four solid premades planning on going for it (in addition to the many lesser ones), odds are two or three of them have at least attempted, and likely succeeded, in getting 'their' agent in one or more of the others. And that's premades, for Chrissake!

Of course 'their' agent might never find the tribe they've joined to be in a position where openly revealing their 'true' loyalties is advantageous. But you can't possibly believe that tea is waterproof? It's basically made of the damn stuff :p


The only semi-reliable way to safeguard against weaklings out to save their own pixels is to ensure that the deck is always stacked in your own tribe's favour, so their interests always lie nominally with your tribe.

I didn't say it's not possible. But the prevalence of that concern - either from the tribe's or the members' perspective - is contrary to the very name and cooperative nature of the game. And if it comes to it, pre-emptively stacking the deck to try to mitigate that fear is not exactly real warfare either.
 
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DeletedUser93954

Guest
I know TEA isn't impervious to such tactics either, just look at the vlog leaks :eek:
 

DeletedUser119950

Guest
SO.. what was the reason for FnB to even exist on this world,first big thing they did was merge lol. Can we expect the same from C9?
 

DeletedUser118986

Guest
SO.. what was the reason for FnB to even exist on this world,first big thing they did was merge lol. Can we expect the same from C9?
Sometimes it's not worth exhausting all resources on unnecessary wars and allow a top tribe (TEA, BiP, or WET) to just come in and clean up the mess.
 

DeletedUser119950

Guest
Sometimes it's not worth exhausting all resources on unnecessary wars and allow a top tribe (TEA, BiP, or WET) to just come in and clean up the mess.
Its a game about war and fighting. I agree with you its not wroth sometimes, but you long past that "sometimes" since you didnt do anything big from the start. I dont doubt you guys are very good players but please,you dont become a 'hero' by surviving while doing... well not much.
 

The Strategist

Non-stop Poster
So is anyone going to comment on the fact that WET.F are falling apart and running in all directions after a TEA op. And now TEA is recruiting Dist. And the south east is turning into a recruit fest xD
 

DeletedUser119951

Guest
If you say merging isn't a part of tribal WARS or is cowardly then you're not the brightest tool in the tool shed, Merging is a tactic, Tactics are a part of war. Fyi
 

The Strategist

Non-stop Poster
Not sure why you just jumped to that argument, i did not say anything of the kind. I was just pointing out that as a discussion topic. It is interesting that WET.F has fallen apart. And TEA are now recruiting some of them as well as Dist. and in doing so are making a move to take control over the southern side of the world. But thank you very much for implying i'm stupid... lovely talking to you.
 

ITz.TD

Contributing Poster
I'm not sure he was necessarily implying you are stupid, just people who fail to recognise that this is fairplay and all encased to the strategy of the game.
 

the nemesis123

Guest
Fear not the snake, for he has to use every tool in his arsenal in order to win.
 

the nemesis123

Guest
Since there is nothing in particular going on, I thought I'd put my opinions of the top few tribes. I'll try to be as impartial as possible here, but can't say it will be completely unbiased. I'll put my thoughts on the tribe, their position and briefly discuss a few players of note at least to me personally.

TEA:

Currently top in the world and has been so pretty much since the end of nobling. At least for the meanwhile I expect this to continue. Currently putting quite a lot of work versus WET. Looking at their stats, I don't think their coordination is bad at all, but I also think that WET is both in a bad position as well as not being a particularly good tribe. This will undoubtedly continue over the coming weeks as TEA aims to connect their clusters and start getting a backline for the a possible 2HARD/TEA vs BiP/Infamy war. What TEA have going for them is a strong lineup. Whilst I do like to take the piss out of TEA a bit, their lineup is not something to be trifled with, especially dependent on their commitment. From my observations of TEA's leadership publicly, I'd say they seem serviceable, albeit with some flaws. In another thread, there was a leak from Balian to Novembre of a conversation of TreX supposedly berating Balian for not being a team player. I see that as a good thing and it gives me at least a smidgen of hope that they have an idea of what they are doing.

The major concern is that TEA messed up its diplomacy, putting themselves in a weakened position in the long term in my opinion. Alignments are often limited by your position, but I'd guess that there were probably better options than aligning with KingRagnar and 2Hard that TEA closed themselves off of. Still in a position where it is possible for victory for sure despite the fact I don't think the lineup alone makes up for the disadvantageous position, but mistakes in the past can become ones in the future. If I was to talk of any players in particular of note, probably the ladies of TEA, Sweetmisery and Multiple Wargasms. Game changers? Nope, but solid backbones of many a world winning lineup. Sidd 271 at the bottom of the tribe is also in a similar vein. They do have a few players who are less active or generally not beneficial to the tribe that they need to watch out for. Overall though I guess they will be around for a while.

BiP:

I think of the top three tribes, BiP has the weakest lineup, but there is no doubt they have been around for a while. If this was W83, I think BiP fulfil the role of ANY. I wouldn't be surprised if an end-game merger between BiP and Infamy happened to create an Aligned Movement. They noble significantly more barbarians than TEA and have worse coordination in my opinion overall, though that may be due to their war with 2HARD which is not going quite as well as the TEA-WET war. The damage they are currently doing in my opinion is not significant at least in the short term. From my knowledge of KingRagnar and his tribes in the past, I can put a ballpark on where BiP is at. This is by no means saying that BiP are bad though.

BiP do have a pretty good position and have the tools to win, probably by merger though would be their best option. I think it is pretty important for them to continue a good relationship with Infamy. What they do have going for them is a few of their top players. Nwaro and Kreiz are pretty easily the two best players in BiP and amongst the best players currently playing W90. They also have a bunch of Norwegians I cannot really put a level on since they came from a different server which may be up there also. If that relationship with Infamy goes with C9 which it may well do, I guess BiP would be in a very difficult position.

Infamy:

I guess this is my pick to win W90. Certainly a solid lineup, arguably better than TEAs overall and in a pretty good position. The C9-Infamy merge was pretty predictable, but also a strong move overall. Currently not doing much of note, though if I hear the rumours, there's a conflict brewing between BiP and Infamy. I guess there will be a short break to make sure the merger goes smoothly and then we shall start seeing things. Militarily, it seems the overall focus and coordination of the tribe is pretty good. Diplomatically, well they have Bill. Overall a balanced strong tribe.

I suppose my main concern for them is that they will try to pull off something that is non-standard protocol as a lot of these sorts of tribes do. TEA doesn't seem like the type that would do something leftfield and suboptimal but Infamy may be that tribe. Asides from that, some players of note are the two renowned leaders Akeldama and Subwind, whether they are in positions of power or not there is a resource of experience that the leaders of Infamy can pool from. In terms of players, Smithythefitter sticks out to me since we played recently. Also heard good things about Mezonis and in general the ex-W84 TAG players are of note.

2Hard:

Probably the last one I will do but I may update later. Basically KingRagnar and the various players he's managed to rope in from the rim. Currently having a boon from WET collapsing and basically recruiting from them, but losing a war to BiP in the meanwhile so it is ups and downs. What they have got going for them is their leader. Although I'm of the opinion that he is not a particularly good leader, he does have that survival instinct which will probably come in handy. They are going to need every dirty trick in the book if they want to win this world IMO.

Suppose the main goals are to clear up WET and turn around their war with BiP. Not an impossible task, but I am not sure this is the tribe to do it. Regardless, of note of course the leader and larger than life personality KingRagnar. No doubt his willingness to sell out his tribe in order to benefit a minority will determine his future in this world. Fortunately I think he is in a world where people aren't above that play and will happily add him into their tribe in the right circumstances. Asides from that, you have Seven Devils who seems to be brought up regularly in the forums. As for a less vocal player, Eriks194 has coplayed previously on a variety of top accounts. I see 2Hard as the first of the bigger tribes to fall though I could be proven wrong.