DeletedUser
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Shame about your job :/
The EviL Empire&*N~L* Family vs. AXE Official war declaration
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DeletedUser
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I'll help make this true.
We are solely responsible for the downfall of Evil and NL.
Now you don't look like an idiot, your welcome!
DeletedUser
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Thanks spl 
Ancient, I believe NL was moving into K25 at a very fast rate before tH merged with Evil.
Ancient, I believe NL was moving into K25 at a very fast rate before tH merged with Evil.
DeletedUser
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K24.Thanks spl
Ancient, I believe NL was moving into K25 at a very fast rate before tH merged with Evil.
I'll leave my resume for fact-checker with you later.
DeletedUser
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Hehe.
DeletedUser
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Thanks spl
Ancient, I believe NL was moving into K25 at a very fast rate before tH merged with Evil.
Maybe making progress in certain areas, but as a whole I dont think tH were close to being defeated. From what I understand the 'merges' or 'invites' were done since both NL and Evil wanted to end their current wars and their was a opportunity to secure the north between them. Hence it was a mutual action. Remeber that NL picked up a lot of Wanted who Evil were at war with....
If the sole reason for doing this was to create a powerful alliance to war us, im not 100% sure
Sehrus: Not really completly sure what your trying to say tbh.
dreamr
Guest
As one of the members who worked with EviL leadership on the new arrangement, I feel it is important to reveal what exactly happened between two long-term allies. First, after the original tH leaders left, we were left without a solid leadership team. Those of us left tried our best to muddle through and provide direction and motivation to our players. After some weeks and a sudden reversal of position by N~L family, we found ourselves foundering with indecision and lack of clear planning. So we turned to our good friends in EviL for assistance.
Several possibilities were discussed. Most of them involved some invitations of wanted players. As both tribes had low numbers, we decided that a merge was the best option. However, this is where things went south. As conditions of the merge, we were told a number of things, some of which did not sit well with us.
1: it was a merge not a family (not quite true),
2: we would have unified external forum (very true),
3: we (TWiG) would have to do everything EviL leaders said without exception (you saw how that worked out),
4: all our diplomacy would be replaced with their's, regardless of anything (didn't work so well again),
5: since there was not enough room in EviL for everybody, we would be in our own tribe that is not a separate tribe (huh?),
6: EviL will send Cypher Rahl (a trusted long-time friend) over to keep us in line (ended up being G0liath and no one else was given duke powers even for emergencies),
7: N~L won't allow certain players to merge (mostly war targets), and
8: all our recruiting would be subject to EviL approval (meaning all the wanted guys we had spent time on gaining favor were now up in the air).
Reluctantly, after much debate, and I cannot stress how much debate and discussion, we accepted. spl10246 refused saying he would rather stay and fight. Forgiveness if I have forgotten any others as it has been a while. We spent a week or two getting used to the new arrangements, securing the endless stream of barbs, and resting from the constant wars of the last year.
Then, lilbutterly decided unilaterally that we would now attack AXE. We from TWiG had been good friends with AXE and instantly knew we had been used. I don't think there was a single player from TWiG that actually participated in an active manner. Maybe couple of extraneous conquers and some support sent.
At that point, the family arrangement was effectively dead. When AXE did not roll over and die as some had expected, the leaders were left with an unwinnable situation and no back-up plan. So a few of them did what most incompetent leadership does when they fail. They either quit trying, or quit altogether. To be fair, one of them begged off after receiving a personally devastating medical diagnosis that I will not discuss.
We from ninjas/tH/TWiG, are tired of being pushed around. We are tired of doing what others want of us. We are tired of people stabbing us in the back. So we have gone back to the real way of tH. verm27, Ryalnos, HoldMyOwn, redTehHeredick, knarley, and others (again aplogies is if missed any one) chose the name theHeretics not just because they played another game with that name, but because they play the game their way and to Hell with what everyone else wants. When they chose allies, they chose carefully.
EviL was a very good ally until N~L screwed it up. So some credit is due to them for wrecking it. But now we are truly disgusted and fed up with them. We will continue to fight until N~L family is destroyed. My only regret is that the players responsible for it have all quit. spl was right. We should have stayed and fought. Well, it may be a few months late, but we are back.
We are now theHeretics. We will play this game our way, with our friends. Its a war game. If you don't like it, quit. Otherwise, get out of our way.
Several possibilities were discussed. Most of them involved some invitations of wanted players. As both tribes had low numbers, we decided that a merge was the best option. However, this is where things went south. As conditions of the merge, we were told a number of things, some of which did not sit well with us.
1: it was a merge not a family (not quite true),
2: we would have unified external forum (very true),
3: we (TWiG) would have to do everything EviL leaders said without exception (you saw how that worked out),
4: all our diplomacy would be replaced with their's, regardless of anything (didn't work so well again),
5: since there was not enough room in EviL for everybody, we would be in our own tribe that is not a separate tribe (huh?),
6: EviL will send Cypher Rahl (a trusted long-time friend) over to keep us in line (ended up being G0liath and no one else was given duke powers even for emergencies),
7: N~L won't allow certain players to merge (mostly war targets), and
8: all our recruiting would be subject to EviL approval (meaning all the wanted guys we had spent time on gaining favor were now up in the air).
Reluctantly, after much debate, and I cannot stress how much debate and discussion, we accepted. spl10246 refused saying he would rather stay and fight. Forgiveness if I have forgotten any others as it has been a while. We spent a week or two getting used to the new arrangements, securing the endless stream of barbs, and resting from the constant wars of the last year.
Then, lilbutterly decided unilaterally that we would now attack AXE. We from TWiG had been good friends with AXE and instantly knew we had been used. I don't think there was a single player from TWiG that actually participated in an active manner. Maybe couple of extraneous conquers and some support sent.
At that point, the family arrangement was effectively dead. When AXE did not roll over and die as some had expected, the leaders were left with an unwinnable situation and no back-up plan. So a few of them did what most incompetent leadership does when they fail. They either quit trying, or quit altogether. To be fair, one of them begged off after receiving a personally devastating medical diagnosis that I will not discuss.
We from ninjas/tH/TWiG, are tired of being pushed around. We are tired of doing what others want of us. We are tired of people stabbing us in the back. So we have gone back to the real way of tH. verm27, Ryalnos, HoldMyOwn, redTehHeredick, knarley, and others (again aplogies is if missed any one) chose the name theHeretics not just because they played another game with that name, but because they play the game their way and to Hell with what everyone else wants. When they chose allies, they chose carefully.
EviL was a very good ally until N~L screwed it up. So some credit is due to them for wrecking it. But now we are truly disgusted and fed up with them. We will continue to fight until N~L family is destroyed. My only regret is that the players responsible for it have all quit. spl was right. We should have stayed and fought. Well, it may be a few months late, but we are back.
We are now theHeretics. We will play this game our way, with our friends. Its a war game. If you don't like it, quit. Otherwise, get out of our way.
DeletedUser
Guest
that sounded oddly like a recruitment thread towards the end.. :icon_confused:
I for one have never been interested in northern diplomacy or really anything about the north and was very content living in my own sphere of reference and never leaving.. way to hit me over the head with a whole bunch of writing :lol:
I for one have never been interested in northern diplomacy or really anything about the north and was very content living in my own sphere of reference and never leaving.. way to hit me over the head with a whole bunch of writing :lol:
DeletedUser
Guest
Dreamr, I don't agree with some of your assessment; but in general - well put, and good luck.
I think all the old 4Horse players were horrified at how the great alliance we had with tH/Ninjas went so bad so quickly.
I think all the old 4Horse players were horrified at how the great alliance we had with tH/Ninjas went so bad so quickly.
DeletedUser56085
Guest
I actually find this quite funny if i'm being truly honest dreamr. You say that you are tired of being stabbed in the back, etc bla bla bla. Yet it is you, who stabbed EviL in the back by not participating in the war. I don't know which world you're from, but usually in times of a desperate merge, which is clearly what it was, you lose all your powers to the tribe you are merging into. What did you expect, to merge into a tribe and remain independant?. I know for a fact that TSoH have made this work at least twice, without any real problems. What sticks out to me in your post is the fact that you decided to merge into a tribe but not be loyal to that tribe. So effectively, you were destined to be doomed from the start, hey.. nice logic there. Not that i don't have sympathy with you for how the whole situation turned out, which no-one could of predicted. It could be argued that it was you and your comrades who decided not to fight, that led to the downfall of the north. We know that's not entirely true, but it was definitely an element, and for that i dont think you have anyone to blame but yourself.. and of course NL, who are nowadays the 'scapegoat'.
DeletedUser
Guest
How about we use this for an hypothetical anology.
Say you decided to join us (AXE), and then several weeks later you find out that we will be waring TsoH or Exile! Your long term tribe or allies. Your obviously not gonna be happy about fighting the people that youve worked with for so long have you.
The relationship between Axe and tH went right back to the world war when they were fighting -?- and we fought SP, to try and balance out the opposition.
Basically what Dreamr is saying, and I think your looking at things to literally, is that what they got is not what they signed up for. Like he said, in hindsight and knowing how they were gonna be treated he wouldnt have merged.
Which makes me think you just kinda skim read the post....
DeletedUser56085
Guest
"After many months of skirmishing, flaming, and general dislike the Lords of the North officially declare war on the AXE family." - The first quote of this thread.
I can understand the point you're making Ancient, but at the same time, Dreamr is complaining about how all these conditions of the merge weren't right for him and his tribe, yet he still went through with it. AXE, EviL and NL had been skirmishing for months like lilbutterfly said, use your common sense.. which side do you want to be on? They chose EviL and then turned their backs on EviL. Like i said before, my main point was that Dreamr and co joined a tribe which, they all knew, they couldnt fight with no matter what. A dumb merge, and therefore, like i said, they got what they deserved. Call me harsh, but this is a game which relies fundamentally on decision making and that decision to merge was poor.
Btw i quit this game many months ago, just thought i'd clear that up.
I can understand the point you're making Ancient, but at the same time, Dreamr is complaining about how all these conditions of the merge weren't right for him and his tribe, yet he still went through with it. AXE, EviL and NL had been skirmishing for months like lilbutterfly said, use your common sense.. which side do you want to be on? They chose EviL and then turned their backs on EviL. Like i said before, my main point was that Dreamr and co joined a tribe which, they all knew, they couldnt fight with no matter what. A dumb merge, and therefore, like i said, they got what they deserved. Call me harsh, but this is a game which relies fundamentally on decision making and that decision to merge was poor.
Btw i quit this game many months ago, just thought i'd clear that up.
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dreamr
Guest
I think I left one small part out. We are now in charge of our destiny. Not N~L, not EviL, not AXE, not anybody. As soon as the war dec appeared here, we knew we'd been used and we won't have that. There was no notification or discussion of the intent to war AXE. It was sprung upon us unawares.
Bic, you have a point. But when your best and longest ally pulls something like that, (it was not at all supported by everyone in EviL either), you have to wonder just what the heck the point of the merge was for them.
tbh, our players are much happier now.
Bic, you have a point. But when your best and longest ally pulls something like that, (it was not at all supported by everyone in EviL either), you have to wonder just what the heck the point of the merge was for them.
tbh, our players are much happier now.
DeletedUser
Guest
I agree with dreamr on some points and disagree on some others. Not being in charge at the time i myself was not 100% in the picture on everything.
I know that going to war with axe was one of the talking points at the end of the wanted war.
I think one of the main problems was that when TH and us joined forces we didnt realise that wanted was going fade and fall so fast thus with players all moving around so quick it left us feeling like we had to make a move on someone quick to help forge the new allliances made.
To be honest the TH crew should have had more of a say in the next move but honestly when you looked at our diplomacy list and the tribes positions around the world there really was only going to be one choice.
We found out about axe making plans on our sharing borders and that also too forced us to act quicker than we wanted.
However most of the damage between the two freindly tribes i personally feel was done by am.ba. He spread lies that sperated us he worked and spied on our friendly tribes and was always activly working agaist what ever evil wanted to do whether it envoled axe or not.
i wanted and even spoken about making dreamr a co-duke but at the time he didnt have the personal time and i think am.ba took offense when i didnt then offer it to him.
There was always chances to reverse choices made like waring axe but what i would not do is turn on a allie and stab them in the back.
So eventually it was my honour and keeping the word of those who sat before me that brought the downfall of Evil.
It would have been all to easy to make peace with axe and then turn on NL. and yes that may have saved evil some time but i dont think i could have lived with that route and i dont think evil could have lasted long when we could never have been trusted again.
I wish the TH players all the best but i still live up to warning i gave am.ba apon his leaving.
N W G
I know that going to war with axe was one of the talking points at the end of the wanted war.
I think one of the main problems was that when TH and us joined forces we didnt realise that wanted was going fade and fall so fast thus with players all moving around so quick it left us feeling like we had to make a move on someone quick to help forge the new allliances made.
To be honest the TH crew should have had more of a say in the next move but honestly when you looked at our diplomacy list and the tribes positions around the world there really was only going to be one choice.
We found out about axe making plans on our sharing borders and that also too forced us to act quicker than we wanted.
However most of the damage between the two freindly tribes i personally feel was done by am.ba. He spread lies that sperated us he worked and spied on our friendly tribes and was always activly working agaist what ever evil wanted to do whether it envoled axe or not.
i wanted and even spoken about making dreamr a co-duke but at the time he didnt have the personal time and i think am.ba took offense when i didnt then offer it to him.
There was always chances to reverse choices made like waring axe but what i would not do is turn on a allie and stab them in the back.
So eventually it was my honour and keeping the word of those who sat before me that brought the downfall of Evil.
It would have been all to easy to make peace with axe and then turn on NL. and yes that may have saved evil some time but i dont think i could have lived with that route and i dont think evil could have lasted long when we could never have been trusted again.
I wish the TH players all the best but i still live up to warning i gave am.ba apon his leaving.
N W G
DeletedUser
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am.ba controlled an account in TSoH, then lied to me about it. He is NOT to be trusted by anybody. The rest of tH seems ok though.
Personally, I think every tribe on w15 should disband and we should all make new tribes of no more than 10 people. That would be fun
Personally, I think every tribe on w15 should disband and we should all make new tribes of no more than 10 people. That would be fun
DeletedUser
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am.ba controlled an account in TSoH, then lied to me about it. He is NOT to be trusted by anybody. The rest of tH seems ok though.
Personally, I think every tribe on w15 should disband and we should all make new tribes of no more than 10 people. That would be fun
That would only be fun if no tribes try to start alliances.. if it was a free for all, then yes that would be a hell of a lot of fun
DeletedUser
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am.ba controlled an account in TSoH, then lied to me about it. He is NOT to be trusted by anybody. The rest of tH seems ok though.
Personally, I think every tribe on w15 should disband and we should all make new tribes of no more than 10 people. That would be fun
idk about that=P
I'd just be standing there waiting to be called on lol
DeletedUser
Guest
One of the most singular posts i have ever enjoyed by an individual because from reading it i can see the honesty oozing from the sentences as i read it....
Unfortunately Dreamer this was the feeling from most that joined into that merge and it was at the time more of a merge of necessity than a merge of a more beneficial outcome which should naturally be the case(not even going into the evil leavings at this time)
As a duke i have tbh and say i forsaw the under-handness by lil butterfly and Cypher at the time as i had some talks with them before the war with Wanted ended and I knew that war was on the cards but never comtemplated attacking a previous ally (evil/4horse/th) but as circumstances dictated we had to prepare in terms of which it meant running the rumour mill and sussing the sources. This meant that Evil thought that we were going to attack(even though we had already seen their plans to hit us) so yes you were duped but i think that is the essence of this game and at its basic core its down to trust and for this reason i miss Knarley and Verm terribly....
Unfortunately we at AXE have selectively recruited over time, sometimes for position sometimes for consolidation but the end result has always been a greater basis of player skill and the end result can be viewed still meaning we still haven't rolled over... TSoH have a similiar recruitment policy thanks to former and current leaders and i think both tribes will continue to do so for the forseeable future(its something for potential enemies to keep in mind)
I also fully understand the hatred that Jmon feels towards am.ba but i feel that i only understand from the standpoint of being a fellow duke, i think that most would not understand such a thing and it should be taken into consideration but also mitigated in circumstances of weighing up options
Finally Dreamr i wish to apologise because i too offered an offer to absorb some of your members before Evil took you in but i'm afraid as is natural to me i was too late due to RL circumstances....
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DeletedUser
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am.ba controlled an account in TSoH, then lied to me about it. He is NOT to be trusted by anybody. The rest of tH seems ok though.
Personally, I think every tribe on w15 should disband and we should all make new tribes of no more than 10 people. That would be fun
Jmon yes i would <3 to do power teams if such an occasion was to arise
DeletedUser
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And the great boozie as spoken! -bows-
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