Discussion in 'World 90' started by Novembre, Feb 19, 2017.
You also counted recaps as "losing villages" when you mentioned me, but it's fine
awesome read, thanks for putting in the work to make the forums fun to read like they're supposed to be
It was a good OP by TEA... I defended several hundred nukes... Killed about 1.7 Million troops.... Only down 2 villages .. Fun times ! Thats the best TEA can muster with a back stab included...
We're only getting started lol
The Tale of Two Rim Tribes - Part 1
I've been thinking about a new idea for a decent discussion for a while and where to go with it. When discussing TEA vs. BiP at the start of the war, I did an analysis of the battlefield at the start, where I thought each side would be aiming for as well as a reflection two weeks later looking into how the battlefield had evolved as well as giving a brief assessment of the performance of both sides. I wanted to do something similar for TEA vs. Infamy but it would be a bit boring if I just did the exact same thing over again. That's why I had the following idea, to frame the conflict around two smaller tribes which are now contained within the two different sides and do slightly less straight statistics and more story telling. Two different tribes with two very different stories, both surprisingly important within the grander scheme of things. In part 1, I'll be talking about W A R, now AD! and shall look at the conflict from their perspective.
Before I do that though, there needs to be a bit of backstory as I doubt many people know much about W A R or the players in W A R. I am fortunate enough to know people who actually were able to tell me a bit about the history of the tribe, its philosophy and member make up. This really aided in my research in the matter and without those people, I couldn't have made this post. W A R was founded by PinkVendeta towards the beginning of the world and grew as a relatively small clustered tribe typical of the rim or outer-core. Perhaps the most notable feature that made W A R stick out unique from other tribes would not emerge until a month after founding with the arrival of Grimmyth.
I cannot really say about much about the character of Grimmyth since I have never met nor talked to him, but it is my belief he came into W A R a bit miffed as he had been rimmed by TEA previously and did not want this to be repeated. Grimmyth would though, write what was perhaps the most important post on the W A R forums and changed the direction of W A R permanently. The general gist of what, from what I heard, was quite an analytical post, was an adoption of a heavy barbarian nobling style filling in every gap that could possibly be exploited by the enemy. This combined with a 1 Offensive village to 4 Defensive village Troop ratio would be able to wall out bigger enemies such as TEA and Infamy and allow the continued survival of W A R. You might just think that, well every turtle tribe ever does this, so what makes this different?
Most tribes can be split into two major categories based on how they are run, authoritarian and libertarian. The former you are told what to do, what to build, how to play the game, where to send your troops, which villages to noble, the latter you are given more freedom over your actions, less ordering and more volunteering, more confidence is put in your abilities to work towards tribal objectives. In W90, most people would consider TEA, BiP, Infamy and P-W to be run in a libertarian fashion, albeit to differing degrees. Not all tribes are run that way. To give an example of my own, my W60 tribe and to a lesser extent my W87 tribe were run in what I'd consider to be a relatively authoritarian manner. Similarly, W A R was run in an authoritarian manner by PinkVendeta who was a big believer in Grimmyth's ideas. To give examples, no criticism was allowed of certain ideas and policies, defence counts were enforced and claims were approved on an individual basis from the leadership.
W A R would end up aligning with TEA, partially through necessity and partially because of other diplomacy with Wicked, a tribe that was at war with Infamy that W A R would recruit from. W A R would then get their family tribe Q-EST, a long lasting rim tribe in its own right due to a conflict between TEA and Q-EST which resulted in the loss of a Q-EST leader and control being brought over to PinkVendeta. This sets the stage for the beginning of the Infamy war.
With all that build up, that preparation, the authoritarianism, you would have thought W A R would do alright versus Infamy at least for a bit. You would be incorrect in that assertion. It turns out that not many people actually liked PinkVendeta, one flaw with that style of leadership and the strategy failed versus Infamy. The war between Infamy and W A R ended with the one sided chomping through W A R, with Infamy being up 143-7 and PinkVendeta quitting. This would eventually lead to TEA taking direct control of W A R.
What now for W A R?
The real question is whether they can make more of an impact asides from being a meatshield for TEA. I've made a map below of the front:
You can also see FARM there who I will be talking a bit about some later time when I have been able to research a bit more about them and their position. One thing interesting that comes across heavily on the front and what I've always thought has been a flaw of Infamy's is their style. When Infamy were attacking W A R and even before that when attacking Wicked, they could have just cleaned up what were obviously inferior players through tribal actions, getting as many nobles as possible to the front and involving as many members as possible. Instead Infamy chooses to fight these turtle tribes with a few players, in almost a cocky manner reminiscent of W73 -ND- for example. Not saying that this makes them weaker than any other tribe, with strong individual talent you can make that work, but that should be something Al or whoever is leading AD! now should be trying to exploit. You may not be able to wall out Infamy, but you can wall out and beat five players, even if they are all high quality. Rather than trying to 1v1 these players, AD! should try instead zerg them using their numbers. This is especially the case since two of Infamy's leaders are on the front and you have the opportunity to bog them down in tagging, defending and sitting instead of leading.
I can't say I have ever read much from inside W A R, but I assume like most rim tribes, their players aren't very good. They probably can't snipe consistently, especially with new mechanics such as the watchtower they are probably lacking. They probably panic about stuff that the better TEA/BiP/Infamy players would not, especially mass incomings and the like. Something will need to be done about that. Other things to do, get the defence at the front and find some way to change the troop composition. The good thing about W A R is actually that the tribe is used to authoritarian leadership. I have been subtlely suggesting to TEA that given their situation, they should lean more and more authoritarian over time and W A R is a perfect place to test out that though there is always a problem of whether there is enough manpower. Perhaps watchtowers could be placed in Infamy territory to tag incoming from very far away but this is a commitment. Lastly, they will need to find some way to make the tribe become more offensive so they can put some pressure on Infamy.
A big task, who knows whether it can be done. It may well be the case that TEA choose to continue AD! as a meatshield in which case a lot of what I have said is moot, but with a 1v2, TEA will need all the help it can get and perhaps putting some of the eggs in a turtlely basket will give more out than was put in.
Excellent read DA. I went for a usual lunch break prepared to read some boring news and here I got one of the best posts I've seen on 90 externals. Good to have you hanging around. I hope we can see some more innovative posts in the future.
Getting in early for the 2017 poster of the year DA? Great read as usual.
I agree TEA's move to control WAR through its own authoritarian leader is the best thing TRA could have done under the circumstances. But I don't think the purpose of it is to put the tribe back on its feet to fight Infamy as a fully functional tribe with a bright future. Al went there to keep the tribe together and to use its members purely for TEA's benefits. The biggest benefit would be gifting villages of least active or weak accounts to TEA while keeping the active ones fighting Infamy. We will see more barbing, building towers, turtling up, giving sits to TEA but the tribe won't last for longer then it has to. It will be internalled or recruited. The truth is TEA doesn't need PW and AD, all they need is those villages under their one banner. Then Al will be able to come back to his rightful place.
Whilst I am sure that TEA will try eventually to go on winning it alone and no doubt will follow the steps you are taking, I do question whether this is the correct move. To keep using TEA as an example, you will notice that a side benefit of P-W is not only a source of defence and internals. Look at the last five TEA recruits:
Grant682 Joined 27th February 2017 - 01:04 1,077,130
Fortezzo Joined 22nd February 2017 - 20:05 729,047
Nathan Potter Joined 15th February 2017 - 02:03 569,072
-Jishin- Joined 10th February 2017 - 20:03 678,928
TimeSplitter Joined 10th February 2017 - 20:03 668,185
All five joined TEA from P-W, replacing TEA members that went inactive or merged in. As a result, TEA started this war at 45 members and is still at 45 members. Meanwhile look at BiP, down from 45 to 40 members since the start of the war. Infamy, were 40 members when they recruited FARM, now 34 members.
I'd argue that treating AD! or P-W as a meat shield and a source of defence/internals is a pretty bad decision. Most people are pretty perceptive, especially when they come from tribes that weren't necessarily friendly to TEA. W A R for example, was never a great friend of TEA's under PinkVendeta. I am pretty sure that both Infamy and TEA knew this. Infamy could have theoretically bought W A R out of the war as simple as asking, not saying that would be the right answer. If what a lot of people have said about the relationship between P-W and TEA was true, then P-W would just desert them.
Lets assume this war continues to go on for months and neither side breaks, where is BiP's source of recruits or Infamy's asides from merging into each other if players decide they want to quit or the account breaks? Infamy and BiP cleared out their rim for this war, which is fine if they win and they have the theoretical advantage right now since they can just recruit from TEA in the long term and then a new interesting situation of Infamy vs BiP will come up. It is however bad when you consider the situation of a stalemate. Yes, the two sides would control approximately the same amount of space with a slight advantage to BiP and Infamy. That said, the value of the space is not the same. The space that TEA controls is more valuable since it contains the most important resource in long stalemates for a competent tribe which is manpower. Who cares if these players are bad? Good leaders create good members through working with them and teaching them. You can get quality players from the rim if you create the right environment, I wouldn't be overly surprised if a few of the best TEA family members skirt the rim and were from P-W.
I'm not saying TEA will do this, in fact I think for the most part TEA will do what you said. I do think down the line this creates a situation where TEA members have to work harder than either Infamy or BiP. Then it comes down to how much better, how much more active are your members than theirs which is a battle that TEA alone I don't think should take. They will probably lose. With the four tribes they control, they have a reasonable chance of winning.
You say that like it's a bad thing
Even if TEA could instantly assimilate all P-W and AD! villages, the three tribes combined have less than 38% global dominance. Infamy and BiP combined would be slightly more than 38%. The only way for any of the top tribes to win is by making significant advances against their enemies, and most likely that's going to be a long slow haul either way - but especially for TEA. In a long war of attrition, any member who can be taught to attack and defend decently is potentially far more valuable than a measly 50 or 100 villages. No doubt in the long term many of those members will end up in P-W or TEA itself. The larger member base is one of the most important assets TEA have at their disposal, and I'd be very surprised and disappointed if its leaders weren't hoping and planning to make the most of it!
(I'm gayer than you)
Your assessments of the situation are as solid as usual DA. Its definitely interesting to see what will happen with Bip and Infamy as they begin to lose members to inactivity and do not have much else that they can recruit. I wonder if prematurely cleaning out their backlines will end up biting them in the ass in the long run. But then again on the flip side, it could be said that us in TEA/P-W are getting bit in the ass by not cleaning out our backlines quicker.
The other major part of this world and war that has had me pondering, is whether or not Bip and Infamy are gearing up for a merge?
Much respect to my mates in Infamy and Bip and best of luck in this war.
Lastly, are you playing this world DA? If so what tribe??
-M A R I O-
Yes I am sad that ND has lost there fire like they used in w73. Mad respect for ND in w73 but over here they look like the average players and will most likely look for a merger between the two tribes. Its common sense, sorry if this is news to some but with NWARO in BiP as there co-duke, INFAMY are pulling the strings and BiP is obeying. It will be fun to see when this merger does happen.
Sorry if I just pointed out some of the biggest hidden things of w90, I am just bored. I don't usually post on the externals but this is what will happen and INFAMY are totally fine with it.
INFAMY are not the ND they once used to be, sadly.
Wtf are you talking about? lol
Omar buddy, did Al give you a sip of his 5% beer? Lol
Yes, ND was lovely, but honestly the only thing from ND in Infamy is 3accounts. Most of the ND core group quit after w73.
And yee, everyone knows nwaro played w73 with Jorge and I, but no, Nwaro is not coduke of BiP, he is not even in leadership.
Well so Infamy and BiP is just gonna fight it out after they're done with TEA? Sounds pretty unlikely to me. Though I might be wrong. But tbh, you will run out of members eventually. You have nothing to recruit, something will need to be done, and trust me, merges is always the easiest way to go. It has been proven so many times. Just look at W85.
Beer is great, you should try to sip some Join me plox?
I don't think I will be playing till when the merge happens but I will come back and just say. "I told you so w90"
As long as we keep existing accounts co played with active and quality players we wont have any issues. You can get fresh blood from ingame recruitment but using networking can be as (if not more) effective, so as you can see we have options and so does BIP.
Also If needed I can reach out to my mates from the Polish server to reinforce us, they are always keen to play .net
I'd assume the issue would be with the number of physical accounts rather than Infamy's ability to network. It's a different story between getting someone on an account that is AFK versus an account that is AFK and bleeding, which is why all three tribes struggle to get players on their frontline permas/inactives. Either ways, there seems to be a current preference to internal/discard from all sides atm.
"Itscommon sense, sorry if this is news to some but with NWARO in BiP as there co-duke, INFAMY are pulling the strings and BiP is obeying."
My quote was against this sentences don't know other things you guys talking. And WHY omar it is Omer.
Note: no jappa here please