The TeachU TW Textbook

Flowtech

Guest
haha so i dont know how to play because my new account only has one world? oh wow, you know a great deal. Its faster to build 11k spears and 1250 hc than 10k spear 10k swords by a lot. the longer time it takes to build axes isnt really much of a big deal because again, you have twice as many nukes.

relying on offense to stack isnt dumb. as im sure your awe inspiring intellect has figured out, HC move pretty quickly. you can stack and then still have your nuke ready by dinnertime.

Still, im not exactly sure what you gain by claiming that i dont know how to play. thats just downright false. not only does that render the rest of your argument ineffective, it also makes you look like an idiot. But what do i know...ive been using the HC axe strategy for years and it works. Notice, that would be years, not weeks. longer than world 59 has been around. Is it that hard to figure out? jeez..you new kids are just not nearly as intelligent as youre made out to be.
 

Doctor Jeroen

Guest
haha so i dont know how to play because my new account only has one world?
I so absolutely lolled at this sentence. But stopped reading after that. No use.
 

twenty-five

Contributing Poster
haha so i dont know how to play because my new account only has one world? oh wow, you know a great deal. Its faster to build 11k spears and 1250 hc than 10k spear 10k swords by a lot. the longer time it takes to build axes isnt really much of a big deal because again, you have twice as many nukes.
Because 10k spear/10k sword and 11k spears and 1250 hc are the only 2 defense builds possible right?!?!?


relying on offense to stack isnt dumb. as im sure your awe inspiring intellect has figured out, HC move pretty quickly. you can stack and then still have your nuke ready by dinnertime.
What if you lose some!?!?!?!? What if you are under constant attack?!?!?!?


Still, im not exactly sure what you gain by claiming that i dont know how to play. thats just downright false. not only does that render the rest of your argument ineffective, it also makes you look like an idiot. But what do i know...ive been using the HC axe strategy for years and it works. Notice, that would be years, not weeks. longer than world 59 has been around. Is it that hard to figure out? jeez..you new kids are just not nearly as intelligent as youre made out to be.
The fact you are arguing this guide is good shows you don't know how to play. The fact it "works" does not mean it is "good".
.
 

A humble player

Contributing Poster
Actually lower HC numbers isn't really a bad thing seeing as you can stack from 4x as many villages with HC.
Using under 2K HC (iirc, around 2.2K HC to be exact) means your build is slower than it could be. That isn't a good thing.
haha so i dont know how to play because my new account only has one world? oh wow, you know a great deal. Its faster to build 11k spears and 1250 hc than 10k spear 10k swords by a lot. the longer time it takes to build axes isnt really much of a big deal because again, you have twice as many nukes.
More that that world sucks. 3 weeks in and 1.5K?
I'll outgrow you on 1 speed limited hauls.
relying on offense to stack isnt dumb. as im sure your awe inspiring intellect has figured out, HC move pretty quickly. you can stack and then still have your nuke ready by dinnertime.
Relying on bad builds is however.
Still, im not exactly sure what you gain by claiming that i dont know how to play. thats just downright false. not only does that render the rest of your argument ineffective, it also makes you look like an idiot. But what do i know...ive been using the HC axe strategy for years and it works. Notice, that would be years, not weeks. longer than world 59 has been around. Is it that hard to figure out? jeez..you new kids are just not nearly as intelligent as youre made out to be.
I've been using a strategy that isn't this one, and attained rank one. Your point?
 

Lord Hellz

Contributing Poster
There is a reason the man has not done well since world 4, its a crappy strategy and a crappy guide.
That and not playing any worlds (other than world 33 where he conquered 420 villages and lost 16). I know it's a small factor compared to having crappy strategy, but I think not even participating should be at least taken into consideration.

Now to address general points about the strategy. It is designed for playing in solitude with enemies surrounding you. At the expense of optimal nukes both in production and power you gain a huge amount of flexibility which is hugely important for quickly dealing with attacks. Absolutely any village can send HC to snipe trains, and given the strategy also entails keeping your villages in a block (taking over and building barbarian villages if they're there) you are always going to be able to quickly stack a village from those around it.

To correct Flowtech the correct ratio of villages is 3:2 O:D. This is important as there should be a ratio of 4:1 Spear:HC for an effective defence (resulting in villages of 8000:2000 in other strategies as A humble player mentions) and the 5 villages together result in 25000:6250. It's also important to note that though it takes longer to produce the 12.5k Axe nukes than it would to produce standard Axe/LC ones they are practically as potent, and as mentioned earlier there are typically more nukes for use in this build than a standard 1:1 O:D ratio. Again I stress, the key point of this strategy is getting the most versatility out of village splits.

Finally the catapults. These are easily the most controversial item since most builds don't tend to cover them at all (except perhaps with a Paladin weapon). One has to be dedicated to using them to make them worth while, and again surrounded by enemies (to such an extent that you'll never be able to produce enough nobles to effective squash them), but they are brilliant for harassing an opponent. They can be sent out to attack one village in huge amounts, looking very much like fakes. A couple of nukes thrown in before hand and an entire building can be destroyed. Catapults give defence villages the ability to fight, playing into the key point of versatility, and used properly can totally cripple can opponent.

So to make absolutely clear, this is a strategy for use when cut off from allies and on your own. Openeye would not suggest the use of it as an efficient strategy if one is not surrounded and cut off, so please don't misinterpret it as such. It is a damn effective strategy for what it is intended to do, and the numbers have gone through a lot of crunching.
 

A humble player

Contributing Poster
That and not playing any worlds (other than world 33 where he conquered 420 villages and lost 16). I know it's a small factor compared to having crappy strategy, but I think not even participating should be at least taken into consideration.

I'm quite sure this was written well before then.
Now to address general points about the strategy. It is designed for playing in solitude with enemies surrounding you. At the expense of optimal nukes both in production and power you gain a huge amount of flexibility which is hugely important for quickly dealing with attacks. Absolutely any village can send HC to snipe trains, and given the strategy also entails keeping your villages in a block (taking over and building barbarian villages if they're there) you are always going to be able to quickly stack a village from those around it.
I'll let mattcurr deal with this paragraph, I have a feeling he will rip it to shreds, specifically that first sentence.
To correct Flowtech the correct ratio of villages is 3:2 O:D. This is important as there should be a ratio of 4:1 Spear:HC for an effective defence (resulting in villages of 8000:2000 in other strategies as A humble player mentions) and the 5 villages together result in 25000:6250. It's also important to note that though it takes longer to produce the 12.5k Axe nukes than it would to produce standard Axe/LC ones they are practically as potent, and as mentioned earlier there are typically more nukes for use in this build than a standard 1:1 O:D ratio. Again I stress, the key point of this strategy is getting the most versatility out of village splits.
They are about as effective (more than some), but take twice (literally) twice as long to build, and that isn't made up for by the versatility. If I can have half as many offensive villages and still fire of as many nukes each month, I'm cool with losing a bit of versatility.
Finally the catapults. These are easily the most controversial item since most builds don't tend to cover them at all (except perhaps with a Paladin weapon). One has to be dedicated to using them to make them worth while, and again surrounded by enemies (to such an extent that you'll never be able to produce enough nobles to effective squash them), but they are brilliant for harassing an opponent. They can be sent out to attack one village in huge amounts, looking very much like fakes. A couple of nukes thrown in before hand and an entire building can be destroyed. Catapults give defence villages the ability to fight, playing into the key point of versatility, and used properly can totally cripple can opponent.
But at the same time you lose (quite a bit) of defensive power. While yes you can (arguably) stack more effectively than a "normal" defense, if for whatever reason (large scale attacks), you can't stack, you take much heavier losses. Combine that with slower rebuild of both offense and defense, and you get a recipe for disaster.
So to make absolutely clear, this is a strategy for use when cut off from allies and on your own. Openeye would not suggest the use of it as an efficient strategy if one is not surrounded and cut off, so please don't misinterpret it as such. It is a damn effective strategy for what it is intended to do, and the numbers have gone through a lot of crunching.
It is only at all effective at what it is intended to do on 3 tech (15 tech) worlds. Otherwise, LC just outdo HC at every single turn.
Also, when was the last time you logged in sexeh? :lol:
 

busamad

Contributing Poster
This just does not work at all. Sure if on the back foot for a snap shot of time making them on the front line will get you out of a jam but it is far from a long term solution against attacks when solo.

Its troops on the ground for both attacking & defending that count.
 

Lord Hellz

Contributing Poster
I'm not sure what the date this was written has to do with anything. OE has played 3 worlds to my knowledge that he's seriously put attention into. World 4 and World 33 where he played his account with dedication, and World 16 where the play wasn't focused on at all (just teaching the tribe). In both World 4 and World 33 he did very well for himself.

LC simply can not equal HC in defencive power, and I'm quite sure you wouldn't argue that (despite stating LC outdo HC at every single turn). If large scale attacks are launched that's no excuse to avoid stacking, and the way the villages are placed means stacking is always possible before attacks land (so long as you're fairly active). Sniping noble trains plays an absolutely vital part of defending against these attacks, which as mentioned HC in every village does an absolutely wonderful job of.

As for losing power with defence, with full villages that is simply not true. Let's take a 1:1 ratio (8000:2000), and the 3:2 ratio, giving them both 10 villages.

3:2
50000 (Spear)
12500 (HC)

1:1
40000
10000

25% more defencive power. It's also worth noting that the slow build speeds you speak of are better described as being 20% slower on spear production, whilst the HC are produced literally twice as fast. Again: 100% faster production of HC. Individual villages reach full capacity around 50% slower than the 1:1 build, but that can't be taken into account here where everything is about the flow of troops between villages and not the individual abilities. Further given there are more troops it's a lot harder to destroy them all in one go, giving an allowance for that 20% slower spear production.

Offence is another matter. Yes nukes do indeed take twice as long to make but then this is very much not an offence orientated strategy which most other strategies are designed around. Attacking needs to be done in small bursts, taking villages step by step and very much relying on the attacks using catapults. One can not afford to launch all the nukes as again you've got a large number of enemies near by and the HC in your nukes are vital for defence. Expansion is slow as you are a versatile fortress.

The HC strategy is at its most effective on 15 tech worlds for certain, I'll give you that. But I don't believe it's without merit on archer worlds.

Oh - and I haven't logged in for months/years. I only really came here for the thread about selling tribe names in general, then saw this.
 
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Flowtech

Guest
I dont know how to play because the new account i created after moving only played on one world so far? Wow, you really know a lot.

Regardless, perhaps your massive intellect would allow you to realize that HC move pretty quick. that means you can stack a village and then bring them back quickly for use in the nukes.

On the other hand, it takes a lot less time to build 11k spears and 1250 HC than 10k spears and 10k swords. just throwing that out there. Perhaps you really need to think about what you say before you say it. mindless bashing might work on the newbies, but anyone who knows anything about this game knows that youre full of it.

apologies for the former post, thought it didnt send the last one i put.. refreshed the page and came up blank. anyways, im going to back off this one. you guys can think what you like. No matter, this thread was instrumental, almost legendary. for that reason it should remain stickied. It helped many players learn the game, and if nothing else is a fun place to discuss different strategies (despite your arrogance. Yes, there are in fact different strategies..just because you think yours is better doesnt give you the right to tell everyone else they are wrong..but some people will never be swayed). Im going to continue using this strategy. feel free to come try to take me out.

also, side note. 1500 points after three weeks...you are clearly the best players in the world! because at this stage my limited points dictates so much about my playing ability. I fought of a 13k point tribe at 400 points. 1500 points relays no information about anything, especially not troop counts. Once again, you are a fool if you think that points is everything. Now, i cede my point. have fun.
 
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twenty-five

Contributing Poster

As for losing power with defence, with full villages that is simply not true. Let's take a 1:1 ratio (8000:2000), and the 3:2 ratio, giving them both 10 villages.

3:2
50000 (Spear)
12500 (HC)

1:1
40000
10000

25% more defencive power. It's also worth noting that the slow build speeds you speak of are better described as being 20% slower on spear production, whilst the HC are produced literally twice as fast. Again: 100% faster production of HC. Individual villages reach full capacity around 50% slower than the 1:1 build, but that can't be taken into account here where everything is about the flow of troops between villages and not the individual abilities. Further given there are more troops it's a lot harder to destroy them all in one go, giving an allowance for that 20% slower spear production.
20% slower spear production? It takes 1.5625 times as long to build the 12500 spears per village you are using (or 1.4375 for what the guide recommends). Furthermore you are also exaggerating the increased speed of hc production, it's 1.6 times...

Now the thing is, most of us don't sit around with constantly filled villages of troops when under sustained attack (Maybe we do when not though). Now this is where build time is important, when you need troops as quickly as possible for whatever purpose. You've lost some, you want them rebuilding as quickly as possible which means utilising the barracks and stables (and workshop, if we want truly fastest) constantly. Stopping the stables whilst the barracks continues to run is regarded as inefficient in this situation. Here it is suggested to run for twice as long. Is that good? Not really.

Furthermore you are also using your offensive troops in this situation to defend, this creates issues if it's dead and rebuilding, it's already out, or you want to counter attack in some way. You can't. This clearly lowers the available HC count greatly. Potentially by more than half, this leads to an unbalanced defense, and one that is substantially weaker than the 8k/2k one which as it is all defense and therefore available to defend in most circumstances.



Offence is another matter. Yes nukes do indeed take twice as long to make but then this is very much not an offence orientated strategy which most other strategies are designed around. Attacking needs to be done in small bursts, taking villages step by step and very much relying on the attacks using catapults. One can not afford to launch all the nukes as again you've got a large number of enemies near by and the HC in your nukes are vital for defence. Expansion is slow as you are a versatile fortress.
(I should have read the whole post before replying, some of what I mentioned above is dealt with here I think, although not very well. Didn't remove as I think it still stands.)
If you aren't using all nukes because you need the HC for defense, why are they not defense villages in the first place? Defense villages make better defense villages than dual-functioned villages that do neither O or D well. They also can't be seen as "wasted". I guess you could argue the HC is available for the 400 hours it takes to finish the axes, but that's only because the nuke is so slow building it's hellishly inefficient.
 

Lord Hellz

Contributing Poster
20% slower spear production? It takes 1.5625 times as long to build the 12500 spears per village you are using (or 1.4375 for what the guide recommends). Furthermore you are also exaggerating the increased speed of hc production, it's 1.6 times...
I'll go into my calculations in further detail, as you seem to have made errors in yours by taking this on a village by village basis.

1) Each defence village will produce spears constantly at the same speed. HC strategy has 4 villages, the 1:1 ratio 5. The 1:1 ratio caps spears at 40000, by which time the HC villages have produced 32000. Hence spear production is only 20% slower.
2) HC get such fast production times as they get to use all 10 villages, as opposed to just 5. Hence 100% faster production of HC.

Now the idea that defence is not done well is silly. Defence is done most capably, with a large amount of options. One can not turn everything into a defence village because as you mention counter attacking is important, and it is important to be able to slowly pry villages. It is this form of slow attack using catapults to cripple your opponents which allows for expansion and ultimately destroying your opponents entirely.

Offence can also be launched purely with the 12.5k of Axes and Rams if need be. This is especially useful for crushing enemy offence forces when they're at home, or following up initial attacks with full nukes. There is variance in the attacks one launches depending on what the situation requires. Defence is effective to the point that losing a few offence villages of Axes in inefficient attacks which ultimately achieve your goal that waiting for the offence to reload is not an issue.
 

twenty-five

Contributing Poster
I'll go into my calculations in further detail, as you seem to have made errors in yours by taking this on a village by village basis.

1) Each defence village will produce spears constantly at the same speed. HC strategy has 4 villages, the 1:1 ratio 5. The 1:1 ratio caps spears at 40000, by which time the HC villages have produced 32000. Hence spear production is only 20% slower.
2) HC get such fast production times as they get to use all 10 villages, as opposed to just 5. Hence 100% faster production of HC.
You are right regarding my calculations being single village only. I'll grant you that your numbers are correct.

Tbh I view 1:1 as stupidly risky and unnecessary anyway. It's possible to move at top 5 pace with 2 D to 1 O (or more D). All you need is 2 nukes in your first 5 villages, and from there on maybe 1 every 3 or 4 to be honest. Most offence seems to go unused, even when growing at top speed.

Now the idea that defence is not done well is silly. Defence is done most capably, with a large amount of options. One can not turn everything into a defence village because as you mention counter attacking is important, and it is important to be able to slowly pry villages. It is this form of slow attack using catapults to cripple your opponents which allows for expansion and ultimately destroying your opponents entirely.
I was targeting the offense villages only here (saying their defensive use is well, not very good), they are both poor offense and a poor option for defense substitute and at a single time are only available for one in a "whole" form. If you are under attack and wish to counter attack at the same time then you can't, or you lose some of your defensive power (or as you mentioned below some of your offensive). Make it a defense village, and use LC was more my point or at least if you insist on using HC use a quicker build containing more HC. This means you would need to stack with less offense villages to achieve the same amount of troops, allowing more to be used for attacking. Plus your nukes would build faster. Plus if you really are desperate you definately have more defense now available (even if it is HC heavy).



Offence can also be launched purely with the 12.5k of Axes and Rams if need be. This is especially useful for crushing enemy offence forces when they're at home, or following up initial attacks with full nukes. There is variance in the attacks one launches depending on what the situation requires. Defence is effective to the point that losing a few offence villages of Axes in inefficient attacks which ultimately achieve your goal that waiting for the offence to reload is not an issue.
Against any capable player, though, a 12.5k + ram nuke won't achieve your goal very often, easy to stack against. Besides making your poor offense poorer doesn't really defend the strategy much. Even if it does follow a "proper" nuke in some way.
 

A humble player

Contributing Poster
Yet, hellz, when you take the calculation in that manner, certainly you (HC strategy) have more defense, but I have an extra 5 offensive villages, while you have erm...70K axes and some rams (spread over 6 villages).

You either have (slightly) more defense than I do, or slightly more offense, but not both, and if you try to divide it between the two, you get less of each. It is not as effective, and is only more versatile in a perfect situation.
 

Lord Hellz

Contributing Poster
twenty-five:

So to clarify there's not a huge amount of need for a large number of offence troops as most go unused, however you feel the strategy has a huge flaw in that doesn't allow for enough offence? Ignoring this contradiction for now, assuming you're playing solo in an area where there is a large number of hostile opponents, how would you divide your villages (including troop counts), and importantly how would you expand? We can then make a comparison.

To address your points:

1) Nukes can not be made with more HC, else they become entirely incapable as nukes even if they are built faster.
2) Even with villages placed right next to each other there's not always going to be the opportunity to send the Spears all the way over the village range. HC on the other hand will practically always be able to manage this. Therefore there's some room for HC loss in nukes whilst not losing on on the 1:4 stack ratio.
3) Building LC in villages means those villages lose versatility, this is unacceptable in a hostile area.
4) You have passed over the use of Catapults several times. Whilst nobling attacks need to be targeted on small areas, the Catapults can be spread to massive effect. Once the opponent knows that the "fakes" have the power to totally cripple their villages suddenly defence needs to be spread out further, making the actual targets much weaker to the stack breaking attacks.
5) The poor offence is only weak in terms of build time for the nukes, not in terms of attack power unless the HC are not sent with them.


A humble player:

The perfect situation being when left alone and without support in a hostile area of the map.
 
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twenty-five

Contributing Poster
So to clarify there's not a huge amount of need for a large number of offence troops as most go unused, however you feel the strategy has a huge flaw in that doesn't allow for enough offence? Ignoring this contradiction for now, assuming you're playing solo in an area where there is a large number of hostile opponents, how would you divide your villages (including troop counts), and importantly how would you expand? We can then make a comparison.
This is futile in debating the merits of this particular guide I do not need to propose what I would necessarily do, just point out flaws in it, it's way too much effort, dependent on numerous unstated things oh and did I mention too much effort. If I were to say this I might as well write a guide, something I don't wish to do (except for certain areas of the game which require short, technical/mechanic based information).

As for the contradiction, I didn't say there's a problem with it not allowing for offense, I argued that the offense itself is poor. There's a subtle difference.


To address your points:

1) Nukes can not be made with more HC, else they become entirely incapable as nukes even if they are built faster.
2) Even with villages placed right next to each other there's not always going to be the opportunity to send the Spears all the way over the village range. HC on the other hand will practically always be able to manage this. Therefore there's some room for HC loss in nukes whilst not losing on on the 1:4 stack ratio.
3) Building LC in villages means those villages lose versatility, this is unacceptable in a hostile area.
4) You have passed over the use of Catapults several times. Whilst nobling attacks need to be targeted on small areas, the Catapults can be spread to massive effect. Once the opponent knows that the "fakes" have the power to totally cripple their villages suddenly defence needs to be spread out further, making the actual targets much weaker to the stack breaking attacks.
5) The poor offence is only weak in terms of build time for the nukes, not in terms of attack power unless the HC are not sent with them.[/COLOR]
1) They may on their own become weaker, but for the purposes of what you are arguing they are used for (defending as well as attacking) they are better than the current.

This guide works on 10 village clusters, 6 O villages with 1250 hc each, upping it to 1500 and dropping the axe by the 1500 mark means it builds faster and it's not much weaker plus if you want to maintain the same amount of hc from O villages you have a nuke free now. :O

As it builds faster, you should have more complete ones at any one time. Plus more HC to defend with, win-win?

2) Hmm I had forgotten about this, I'll admit that.

3) No it is not "unacceptable" in any shape or form, please explain how.

4) Because the catapult strategy is not unique to this guide, and can be used with any other strategy may be the reason I ignore it. I don't consider it a reason to choose to use HC over LC at all. The main point of this (or so I thought when I first read it many years ago) was that HC are versatile and useful in both offense and defense, not that you can use catapults to combat noble shortage/morale problems or whatever else.

5) So it is poor... :icon_rolleyes:

Edit: If you are truly in a hostile situation and really under threat, you want the quickest troops possible. You won't care about their power or whatever, you need something of use asap not something that will be more useful if you give it another 3 days. Whether you are using HC offense or LC offense, you don't want to be waiting on the barracks to complete..
 
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Lord Hellz

Contributing Poster
Too much effort is a fair argument, though it becomes hard for you to argue that this strategy is completely ineffective without having an alternative model. Individual critiques we can work with.

You keep coming back to state that the offence is not as capable as the offence that a village of Axes and LC can provide. I've given you this point, as will anyone who uses or studies this strategy. However if a typical O:D village set up has too much offence, and this set up is geared to having more yet poorer defence, then surely this is not an issue as simply having more offence (especially since there is already a surplus) allows enemies to be over come?

Potentially tweaking the offence villages to allow for a further 250 HC at the expense of Axes could work. I don't have access to a simulator right now [Is there an online one that you know of?] so I can't run any tests to verify this, but it may well be a good thing. Returning to the issue of LC in villages, I'm sure you'll agree that if the world is a 15 tech one, then LC are immediately ruled out. In a world where this is not an issue then potentially a few axes could be sacrificed for some LC, again I'm uncertain without a simulator, but the HC can not be swapped. HC in every village is vital for quickly stacking villages, and having the maximum number of places to snipe noble trains from. LC simply can not be used for these purposes, and that is why it's an unacceptable lose to versatility. If defence becomes less important, then on worlds without tech limits strategy can be easily changed to allow for more traditional nukes - but by that time the HC strategy will have served its purpose.

In situations where you are not alone, Catapults are not as useful. Yes Catapults would still be useful if one were to have Spear/HC + Axe/LC divide and left alone in the world, but where would the Catapults go? If in defence villages, then the HC are being used to attack as opposed to pure defence, and if in the offence villages then the nukes lose out on troops (not to mention this is not favourable in 15 tech worlds). Losing the defence HC is crippling, as there's no offence HC to take their places, and losing out on nuke power isn't ideal either. Of course you can produce specialised Catapult villages but then those have to be few and far between, rather than accounting for 40% of all villages. Other strategies can include Catapults effectively, but they almost seem tailor made for this one.

If under constant attack then one is able to constantly produce both HC and Spears. HC in both offence, and defence villages. Plus the catapults being built in defence villages. That's all three troop production buildings being used, I'm not sure else you want. If Spears are still being built but the HC are done then it's plausible to build more HC if safe in the knowledge they'll be culled in time for more Spear production.
 

twenty-five

Contributing Poster

You keep coming back to state that the offence is not as capable as the offence that a village of Axes and LC can provide. I've given you this point, as will anyone who uses or studies this strategy. However if a typical O:D village set up has too much offence, and this set up is geared to having more yet poorer defence, then surely this is not an issue as simply having more offence (especially since there is already a surplus) allows enemies to be over come?
I'm not very good at explaining myself, you may have noticed :icon_razz:

My arguments:
  • O sits at home most of the time
  • HC O is weaker than LC O

Those 2 right?

Well whilst more O does counteract the fact the O is weaker, kind of (assuming you have O available at the time). You lose out on the fact you have to have more O to counteract this, and hence have less D villages. Straight up sacrificing D because your O is inefficient/poor whatever you want to call it in an attempt to be more defense-like.

Potentially tweaking the offence villages to allow for a further 250 HC at the expense of Axes could work. I don't have access to a simulator right now [Is there an online one that you know of?] so I can't run any tests to verify this, but it may well be a good thing. Returning to the issue of LC in villages, I'm sure you'll agree that if the world is a 15 tech one, then LC are immediately ruled out. In a world where this is not an issue then potentially a few axes could be sacrificed for some LC, again I'm uncertain without a simulator, but the HC can not be swapped. HC in every village is vital for quickly stacking villages, and having the maximum number of places to snipe noble trains from. LC simply can not be used for these purposes, and that is why it's an unacceptable lose to versatility. If defence becomes less important, then on worlds without tech limits strategy can be easily changed to allow for more traditional nukes - but by that time the HC strategy will have served its purpose.
No idea about a simulator, I pulled the HC number out of nowhere. I just *think* that building more HC to lower build time could pay off if you were to play this strategy. Also no, I disagree with no LC (although been a while since I've played 3 tech to be honest), but iirc you don't need 3 ram techs to make full use of it's effect on walls, only it's attack, which let's be honest makes no difference. So that's 2 techs gained, drop a sword too (past few worlds all tribes I've been in have used HC defense, so no need for swords).

As for sniping, LC can be used for sniping if desperate (not something I would do unless it was the only option). And I disagree about hc being needed in every village to quickly stack, I use a troop build more akin to the 8k/2k one, but have more defense villages, so I have more defense than you (granted less offense) but can still stack higher than you without using offense.

In situations where you are not alone, Catapults are not as useful. Yes Catapults would still be useful if one were to have Spear/HC + Axe/LC divide and left alone in the world, but where would the Catapults go? If in defence villages, then the HC are being used to attack as opposed to pure defence, and if in the offence villages then the nukes lose out on troops (not to mention this is not favourable in 15 tech worlds). Losing the defence HC is crippling, as there's no offence HC to take their places, and losing out on nuke power isn't ideal either. Of course you can produce specialised Catapult villages but then those have to be few and far between, rather than accounting for 40% of all villages. Other strategies can include Catapults effectively, but they almost seem tailor made for this one.
Build higher HC counts in defense villages. Or build a few cats in various O villages and when they've served their purpose they can die. (If you are thinking of techs, knock back another sword to 1 and you've got that extra leaving 3 spear, 1 sword, 3 axe, 3 lc, 3 hc, 1 ram, 1 cat. Again I think 3 tech means cats work the same with regards to the actual catting on any tech (Edit: checked - this is wrong, correct about rams though), but their attack/defense ratings vary (don't care about them particularly anyway))

If under constant attack then one is able to constantly produce both HC and Spears. HC in both offence, and defence villages. Plus the catapults being built in defence villages. That's all three troop production buildings being used, I'm not sure else you want. If Spears are still being built but the HC are done then it's plausible to build more HC if safe in the knowledge they'll be culled in time for more Spear production.[/COLOR]
Yes I was referring to the high spear/axe counts here. You want stable to building continuously too, and workshop (at least in D villages).

If you reply again, I've gone for now. :icon_wink:
 
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Muldie325

Contributing Poster
Using under 2K HC (iirc, around 2.2K HC to be exact) means your build is slower than it could be. That isn't a good thing.
That depends totally on how soon you need the defence.

The full HC strat seen here is exactly why I want a 10 tech world (3 levels). Then full HC may see some play.. then again people don't like to adapt.

PS: Welcome back Lord Hellz
 
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mattcurr

Part of the Furniture
Random non-sense
ugh so many words. You can have much more effective yields with a standard nuke for offense. Basically attacking with hc=attacking with swords. Sniping nowadays is way too easy perhaps multiple tries was a good thing back in the day nowadays give me 2 minutes and I will cancel snipe any train every time. Nothing stops you from sniping with lc as well, and sniping with lc gives even more attempts at sniping. Not to mention that sniping is generally a dumb move.

Again an army build as slow to build as that is ass-backwards dumb. The yields from less more powerful, and quicker to rebuild nukes allows for the building of more defensive armies, so that you can stack.


And let me separate this as to stop the confusion. A 12k axe army while having a similar overall offensive power will perform poorly in standard situations, most people favor general defense. Creating an unbalanced army either way even if they don't is not wise.

Also the defensive army is unbalanced. Stacking with this method is rather dumb. Because and again as I posted this prior. Stacking from an O village is severely flawed.

Lastly this false dichotomy is irritating. One or the other one or the other, comparing just two options. The general sw/sp defense is not what I would suggest either. You can build a spear hc defense as they are versatile fast, and easily rebuilt. But the method you mention here is just dumb. You can easily keep top 5 with 80% defense. No need for this shit strategy.

Then again the concept of thinking this a choice a player should make on what techs he uses is again a strategical flaw.
 

bobby turnip

Guest
This guide was written a long time ago. TW strategy has changed a LOT since then - but the main points of it still stand true. You have to be able to adapt to your situation and playing style.

not everything is about the most efficient method - you need to go with the play style that suits you, and the situation you are in.

if you are lazy with your nukes, and let them sit at home a lot - you dont need the extra build time (generally) as you will usually have a lot sitting at home. If you are always firing them off though, you will need faster nukes.

If you are running low on nobles or are the sort that always keeps a low noble count, catapults can be a great weapon. If you like to however, save your nukes/nobles up, and noble as many villages in 1 run as possible, catapults arent going to be as effective as you will want a more powerful nuke - and not care so much about catapuling the opponent to the ground.

If you are under constant attack, you are going to want the fastest D build you can get, which is about 2.2k HC and 7.5k spears. if you arent under attack, especially if you are playing on an archer world, you are going to want a more infantry slanted D build - ie 7k spears, 7k archers and 1k HC as it is more powerful.

if you are playing a 15 tech world, the HC strat becomes more viable because of tech levels. level 3 catapults = win

Further, late game, it becomes less about the power of your nukes, but the number of them you have, so the HC strat becomes more viable, if for nothing more but extra sniping options