Then VS Now

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DeletedUser

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This thread is to discuss the difference's between the wars W2V have had with MoM war vs the [T] war.

I did not feel this belonged in the official war thread as it does not apply only to the W2V VS [T] war.

I use the 3-day timeline to compare...why 3 days you ask...knightsaber posted W2V vs MoM stats 2 days into war And Bo Jo posted 3 days...I do not know what tribe KS was playing for so I use what I consider W2V's first stats post by one of their own members for my time line.
That and also 72 hours is a long time for troops/nobles to hit


W2V VS MOM

[spoil]Side 1:
Tribes: W2V
Side 2:
Tribes: MoM

Timeframe: 15/11/2011 16:00:00 to 18/11/2011 16:00:00

Total conquers against opposite side:

Side 1: 887
Side 2: 31
Difference: 856

chart

Points value of total conquers against opposite side:

Side 1: 8,560,937
Side 2: 295,681
Difference: 8,265,256

chart
[/spoil]

W2V Vs [T]

[spoil]Side 1:
Tribes: W2V
Side 2:
Tribes: [T]

Timeframe: 23/01/2012 15:00:00 to 26/01/2012 15:00:00

Total conquers against opposite side:

Side 1: 57
Side 2: 60
Difference: 3

chart


Points value of total conquers against opposite side:

Side 1: 508,534
Side 2: 572,751
Difference: 64,217

chart
[/spoil]

The first thing everyone notices of course is the difference in caps by W2V then vs now. There are several reasons for this but I think the biggest one is fighting an enemy rather than betraying an ally. [T] has never officially claimed kinship or friendship with W2V...some individual players yes but not the tribe as a whole. MoM thought of W2V as brothers and allies to be trusted with their lives.

It is also noticed if you go by od scores (look those up for yourselves if you wish)
Day 3 of the W2V vs MoM war there were 115 mio troops dead.
Day 3 of W2V vs [T] war there is 165 mio dead.
The difference in #'s could be accounted for by the size of the tribes comparing now to than, as there is a larger # of villages supplying troops on both sides.

MoM did not go without a fight..It was just that W2V was that overwhelming.

So now we have to ask ourselves the questions
1. Did W2V make sure that [T] was fighting a war on another front before attacking?---yep they did that
2. are [T] better players than MoM?--- Heck no!! MoM still has some of the best players this world has seen.
3.Was [T] better prepared for a war on the W2V front?---Yes I would say so but the amount of dead troops seems to say otherwise.
4. Were the initial gains by W2V villages that were surrounded in their k's with no support in them before the front line developed?---Entirely possible I do not know, but there are many times when allies have villages sharing k's. Without any preparation these would fall very easily. But was there 800 of them?
5. Has the caliber of W2V members dropped since the MoM war?---I do not think so
6. Is W2V plagued by inactive members not playing accounts to get them involved in this war as they did the mom war?--possible
7. Have W2V sorely underestimated the abilities of [T] members compared to MoM from months of calling them barb-noblers and inexperienced fighters?---Yes by golly I think this is my answer.

W2V has underestimated [T]. Now the world can see's that W2V are not as fearsome as they once thought. It kinda reminds me of -MM- vs MoM, in that MoM underestimated -MM-

Now of course [T] has more members than W2V but so did MoM and MoM had a considerable point lead on W2V when their war started.
Something else as well is that 3 days into the war between W2V and MoM---MoM lost 18 million points of members leaving\getting kicked from the tribe. that is 1800 villages that stopped fighting as part of the unit against W2V.
[T] has lost 1 member with 115 villages. I can not say what happened to that account but it is gone now.

Now I expect some flaming for this as I am saying, (using what I see here as evidence/proof), That W2V are not what they think they are cracked up to be. A lot of players in this world have thought that [T]...teh noobz were going to roll over and die as that is what W2V does to tribes they go to war with.

After 3 days the caps are neck and neck----the body count is appalling---And [T] have begun to prove to everyone else that they belong where they are. [we in [T] always knew it :)]

Now discuss/compare/voice your opinion. It's all good

p.s. I do invite some W2V members to analyze as well to compare in all fairness as you know what is happening in your tribe better than I do :)
 

DeletedUser

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Shadowzilla said:
Day 3 of the W2V vs MoM war there were 115 mio troops dead.
Day 3 of W2V vs [T] war there is 165 mio dead.
The difference in #'s could be accounted for by the size of the tribes comparing now to than, as there is a larger # of villages supplying troops on both sides.
Click to expand...

Alot of defense was away supporting another front for MoM. That is probably a bigger factor than the size for the tribes.
 

DeletedUser

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That certainly is one of the biggest factor in conquers I would say, Max.

I would also say a part of this is that The hasn't been putting up a very effective fight, so while technically we are occupied on that front, and it does require more defense than otherwise, it isn't like we are fighting 2 w2v's at once.

I will say that the account [T] lost was not someone jumping ship or fleeing the war.
 

STAFAST

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Great post....many people love science fiction, some westerns and romance.

I wonder what your post will turn out to be?
 

DeletedUser65846

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Another reason especially in my case, is the distance. We had a HUGE frontline with MoM where everyone had some kind of cluster touching MoM, I know I didnt have to send attacks this far away. But yes you can't compare MoM to [T] war where [T] has an active front as well as simply being prepared. Though we knew of this despite our quick start with MoM, we knew it would not be the same with [T]. I felt it would take a good month at the least to see a consistent gain on either side.... hopefully its W2V's side :icon_wink:

Shadowzilla said:
That and also 72 hours is a long time for troops/nobles to hit
Click to expand...

My attacks are at least 100 hours out... :/
 
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DeletedUser

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Good to see different faces starting relevant and intriguing threads. I will post about this later once ive mulled over your thoughts and organized mine :)
 

DeletedUser

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I have never liked threads comparing wars... Simply because there is no need. All the points you mention are redundant, because everything changes. You may notice similarities, that is more coincidence rather a tribes trait. No two wars are really the same.

However, saying that, there is one point i am surprised you missed, which for me represents the most point, and that is player position.
If you look at the main W2V - T front you will notice that W2V has two prominent accounts on the front, presumably stacked sky high. Kingtiger and mattieboy. I know there are players dotted inbetween, and i know there are other, smaller fronts further south, but these two accounts represent the majority of the front. In the map below i also highlighted ratius as he does have a decent front, but not as significant the other two i mentioned.

W2V Front

Overall there is two - three accounts which hold the majority of position.
Now if i take you back to W2Vs war with MoM. Although i cant make a map for before the declaration, I can assure you alot more members covered the front, it was hard to find a W2V player who was not on the mom front in some shape or form. Certainly there top ranked players all held front with MoM, and is what put players like Dementah and dabill into the position they are in now.

If you look at a map of Ts front, they have 7 obvious accounts on the front (I may have missed some) and lots of dudes slipped inbetween. I prefer a front with more players on it, with fewer villages, as there is not so much a reliance upon a single player. This can work fine if the player is good, however the tiniest slip up and it is easy to pounce. Remember when KT was away for a couple of days and MoM got a decent amount of caps? imagine if that happened now with Tarots position.

T Front

Looking back at other wars on this world. Tutti Vs Ohyeah, ohyeah had a large amount of players covering the front and look what happened to tutti. When MoM declared on ohyeah, Lord KTA covered moms entire front, and he quit pretty quickly. Down south, Mintrungvn is being torn apart by MM.

My point is, having a large front covered with a couple of members is risky. It is very strong wielded by the right players, but given an opportunity, it is not hard for an enemy to seize upon a poor situation, should something happen. It is putting all your eggs in one basket.
 

DeletedUser

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@ willy
Thank you for your response :) I agree with no 2 wars being the same but I disagree with what you say about comparing them. Wars have and always will be compared with each other. it is never redundant to study your opponents on any and every avenue. Studying the MoM war with W2V helped [T] immensely so far in this war. By comparing the two we can see what has been learned and what has been lost.

yep makes sense more players on front makes it a stronger front. I believe that the front is larger than you think though.

All k's involved in this war or what I would call the front are k16. k15, k14, k26(smallest front of the war), k25, k24, k35, k34

I would call anything in k14, k23, even k15 for W2V behind [T] lines just as anything in k35, K26 behind W2V lines for [T]

If we say a player with 100 villages is a contender for being more than a spattering on the front lines I think you will see that W2V has a lot more representation their than you give them credit for.

add these players to the maps you made and I think it makes the front look a lot more accurate.
For [T]
AMgecko
phucchau2
For W2V
Ralyn Longs
Bee.
charshaun
oldman72
 
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DeletedUser

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How on earth did I get to be on that map? I have 25 vills on the frontline, that is locked off by philli getting banned. :lol:

That said, did you not consider that our attitude was mere rhetoric? Distance, lack of surprise and lack of many people with significant numbers of villages on the frontline all play a big role.
I could flip over the comparison: Why did [T] not do as well against W2V as they did against MoM? Is it because they're less active? Is it because they underestimated W2V? :icon_wink:
 

DeletedUser

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Rukoh said:
How on earth did I get to be on that map? I have 25 vills on the frontline, that is locked off by philli getting banned. :lol:

That said, did you not consider that our attitude was mere rhetoric? Distance, lack of surprise and lack of many people with significant numbers of villages on the frontline all play a big role.
I could flip over the comparison: Why did [T] not do as well against W2V as they did against MoM? Is it because they're less active? Is it because they underestimated W2V? :icon_wink:
Click to expand...

you have over 200 villages in k35 which is a contended front line. Just because they are not all touching [T] villages doesn't make them less front line.

as for [T] vs MoM comparison I have invited any W2V member to make a like comparison. Instead of just going blah blah blah do one. I promise I will respond to it.

In fact you will also notice I put W2V first in all postings as they are the ones that have declared against both sides.
 

DeletedUser

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How you figure K35 to be frontline is beyond me. [T] has one cluster of about 30 villages within 36hrs' range.
Why would I make a similar comparison beyond what I have done? Your invitation doesn't make my comments less valid.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Rukoh said:
How you figure K35 to be frontline is beyond me. [T] has one cluster of about 30 villages within 36hrs' range.
Why would I make a similar comparison beyond what I have done? Your invitation doesn't make my comments less valid.
Click to expand...

1. I looked at the map...k35 is frontline
2. as for making your comments look less valid, if your comments are your comparison I will respond to them.

for the war between [T] and MoM
[T] declared on MoM and MoM was in a 3 front war that we made a 4 front war. Of course we are going to do well against them.
as for being less active the answer is nope.
as for underestimating W2V the answer is nope.

[T] were not the attackers in the W2V war but were in the MoM war. Everyone agrees that the attacker usually does better in the beginning than the defender. However W2V have not done that Vs [T] I was looking for reasons why?

and funny that W2V is starting to use the "everything is so far from the front line" excuse. 36 hours, you had plenty of time to move troops around as your members claimed before declaring on [T] And the war is over 72 hours old now.

I give Demantah understanding that all of his stuff is 100 hours out. But that is one player nobling from afar, there are more but your account is not one of them...I am 150hour trip by nukes and over 200 hours out with my nobles from what I would consider the front, with my main cluster.
 

DeletedUser

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As I said, W2V declared on MoM and MoM was in another 2 front war. We also had the element of surprise and inactives on our border, as well as many W2V frontliners. Of course we were giong to do well against them.
As for being less active the answeer is nope.
As for underestimating [T] the answer is nope.

:icon_wink:

We try not to excuse ourselves for rubbish gameplay, playing even against [T] is rubbish. My sincere apologies, we shall strive to rectify this post haste.
 
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