Time for a New Bus

Discussion in 'World 30' started by cececole, Dec 15, 2010.

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  1. noobaxes

    noobaxes Guest

    A win where they get killed by a long shot in the stats? Where it was likely to keep that way since DBL J and Lmawii seems to be gone and were the main reason for the war in the first place?

    Not quite a big win... unless we considerer the end in itself a win. I just think they allowed themselves to have more fire power for coordinated attacks. They decided to put the bus aside for an heavy armored tank that will roll over RAM more effectively.

    BH and RAM are much different and rammites will notice it when time comes. :lol:
     
  2. Atraeus

    Atraeus Guest


    While I respect your position Cal, based on your logic, your opinion that this would be a win for RAM only holds inasmuch as one could prove that the Decide/BH merge was reactionary to RAM, and that having a Family is a RAM exclusive philosophy that BH supposedly incorporated; I have failed to see any logic supporting these concepts. In point of fact, I offer counter logic indicating how the merge is not reactionary, and how RAM has as of yet failed to win by any means, as seen here.

    So, I guess I gotta disagree.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 18, 2010
  3. Michael Wittman

    Michael Wittman Contributing Poster

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    Well djb l, in that case the credit should go to legion. They hit his "safe" areas and made his support on the decide front go poof.

    In lmawii case, the person playing the account was trying to destroy ram from within. So thankyou on that one.

    The front looks god and tasty to me
     
  4. noobaxes

    noobaxes Guest

    Pardon me if my memory fails me but wasn't the duke of Legion the guy that you were making fun of publicly?

    Surprised with the result? Truly :icon_eek:

    Well done Legion :lol:
     
  5. Michael Wittman

    Michael Wittman Contributing Poster

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    I don't recall doing that. You trying to be gossip queen again :) its fitting
     
  6. noobaxes

    noobaxes Guest

    Only digged one thread. How bout this?


    (I'll add gossip queen to my list of insult I got from RAM - damn the list gets long)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 18, 2010
  7. r2d3

    r2d3 Contributing Poster

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    At least noone called you Karma's cheerleader :lol:
     
  8. noobaxes

    noobaxes Guest

    final addition:

    So this is one post I missed, until that point, it was all RAM attacking "refugees". Then RAM started attacking other players, including the duke himself it seems...


    In the end, it certainly seems that RAM has hurt itself, once again. Kudos to Legion for getting their well deserved payback. In case some thinks I'm making this up, it's all in the "RAM would like to point out" statement by Mr. Wittman himself. (around page 9-10)
     
  9. Michael Wittman

    Michael Wittman Contributing Poster

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    Well I think you confirmed qwhat you do and do not know. Thank you that is helpful. And you spent the time to dig up old gossip. Thank you. Go find some more stuff. Knitting circle
     
  10. noobaxes

    noobaxes Guest

    [Spoil][​IMG][/spoil]

    Getting good at it, no?
     
  11. calarasi.

    calarasi. Guest

    Atreus i last used my forum name as in game account in w14.
    Go check updating maps and see whats there and imagine thats the same situation from 2009 basically.
    The brains behind RAM where pushing same "we are many" and "we are dangerous" but the other side made the "hugging better" but they forgot to stop when OMG Michael Wittman got defeated and they just sit there and noble barbs and inactives.
    If i dont agree familly tribes at start of the world i dont agree them at the end either.

    The way i do reach the end is more important for me than the end of line.
    Guess im more like Phoenx choice of game play at the end.
     
  12. electricool

    electricool Guest

    Nice post Noob!
     
  13. Atraeus

    Atraeus Guest


    I agree. I am also not fond of Family tribes and would much rather see a Phoenx approach, though I do not denigrate the idea quite as much as yourself. But this isn't what I was disagreeing with, and is something of a strawman. You said that you saw the merge as a win for RAM specifically. Given your logic, I failed to see how, and in turn offered counter logic which actually implies the opposite.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 19, 2010
  14. noobaxes

    noobaxes Guest

    What!? You enjoy knitting too??? :lol:
     
  15. calarasi.

    calarasi. Guest

    Wait why was the merge done? not to avoid a future small % fighting chance? and to counter balance RAM?
    Because Decide wasnt high enough for BH and RAM standards as it was? :icon_evil:
    +isnt this taking place during the war with RAn :)
    This world will be relativelly alive as long RAM doesnt get killed too fast lol.
    After that will be a waste land exactly like i said w14 looks like-peoples avoiding a fair fight and waiting for the big day.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 19, 2010
  16. Atraeus

    Atraeus Guest

    I can't speak for BH anymore than you can, so at this point, both of us are working in theories. That said, you believe the merge is reactionary to RAM due to timing. This would make sense if we are shirking logic to take the merge at face value. And I'm guessing you didn't follow the link in my first post that offers said logic, given that you have nothing new to counter any of it. But for the sake of a post, here are my theories:

    Was Decide enough on its own? Stats indicate they were, and history shows their players' tenacity and fortitude, so in terms of skill, I would argue yes, inasmuch as the tribe itself felt like continuing as it was.

    Why was the merge done? I'll give you several logical reasons: Because Decide, being long time allies with Hammer, has a personal tie with BH. (Friendship). Because BH shares the same long term plan, and tribal philosophy as Decide. (Culture.) Because Decide is a very small tribe of skilled players with a handful of dead accounts. (Size.) And because Decide and BH have successfully worked together in the past. (History.)

    Considering this logic, why wouldn't Decide merge with BH? The only two reasons I could think is to either keep a name, or to worry about an image (joining a Family). But neither names nor images win worlds.

    The merge took place during a war, so isn't it reactionary? No. There is a term for this assumption, it's commonly known as post hoc, or the fallacy that since X followed Z, then Z is the cause of X. I already countered this false cause best in my link, but here's an addendum: It seems that neither Decide nor BH care much about what the world thinks of their merge; they seem more interested in doing it correctly rather than doing it popularly. It is my thought that the idea of a merge began before the RAM war, but that the details of the merge, the layout of the split BH, interviews, tests, etcetera all took time, and the two tribes saw no reason to hold off on war to accommodate these things.

    Will this world end too quick if RAM goes down? As I said in another thread, I don't agree with this. It is my thought that, out of the ashes of RAM, we will see a great many skilled players broken of paradigms with the opportunity to spark a new force, and this may very well rival even the now mighty BH; whereas in its current state, RAM has no chance of long term survival.

    In closing, we can look at the merge and make face value assumptions, or we can give it some thought, and try to see it from a broader angle. Either way, as I said, these are our theories, our opinions, and given the above logic, I can agree to disagree.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 19, 2010
  17. MR.MR

    MR.MR Contributing Poster

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    Good post, Atraeus. As I mentioned in my analysis of BD and BH, and you reiterated BH knows exactly who and when to strategically merge, and has no qualms about the public's view of them for doing so.

    One thing I would like to comment on is the little bit I quoted. I agree that RAM has no chance of long-term survival in current form. However, I doubt that there will be a force that will emerge that can rival BH after RAM is defeated. Its public knowledge that upon the destruction of RAM, Phoenx will make a mass exodus from w30. Furthermore, there will be a number of RAM players that quit upon the fall of RAM. BH already has amassed 470 million points and 48000 villages, and I'm sure that will be at least 500mil/50000 by the time RAM falls. With no Phoenx, and less RAM players, it would require LoEN, Legion, and the remainder of RAM to join together in a coalition to even have hopes of being in the same ballpark in village count. I am of the opinion that while skill is important in a tribe, the most important thing is the sense of community and teamwork. That is where tribes get their true strength (its why BD and THE were as dominating as they were, and why Phoenx is able to do well with only 24 members).

    I think its safe to assume that BH, at this time, has pretty much finalized their memberlist, and will not be doing any more recruiting outside of maybe 1 or 2 accounts (calarasi and Darkvoyagr are the two that spring to mind) and perhaps the last 4 Decide players if/when they are ready. Why is that significant? Say RAM falls 3 months from now (just a number at random). It won't be until after the fall of RAM that any sort of anti-BH coalition will spring up because, as noobaxes stated, we in Phoenx are hellbent on RAMs demise and won't let up until they are beaten. So say 3 months down the road RAM falls and a new coalition springs up to take on BH. BH will already have had a 3 month head start in bringing their 80 players together into one massive and coordinated team. Furthermore, it would only make sense that BH use RAM as a lab rat for their tribal ops as they work all of the kinks out that come with the influx of many new members. After all, they are already fighting each other as it is.

    On the other hand, LoEN, Legion, and RAM (LLR) start off at a disadvantage by being 3 different tribes. Each will ultimately have their own interests to look out for, especially if the going starts to get a little rough. They will not have had time to grow accustomed to one another, especially considering that LoEN and Legion current sit staunchly across the river from RAM. By being 3 separate tribes, unless they have very strong trust for one another, players won't be able to sit accounts in the other 2 tribes. Its difficult to coordinate and execute an effective op between new teammates the first few times it is attempted; this is the reason why I wanted NADs to go after Die. a year ago instead of T-W-C - we needed to get coordinated. The LLR coalition will have no opportunity to work these issues out, while BH will have had X number of months to do so.

    Because of these reasons, I am of the opinion that unless something major happens to BH, there is little hope for a successful overthrow of w30's latest regime.
     
  18. KarmaX

    KarmaX Still Going Strong

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    This was the sole reason. Hard shell with hollow body. :icon_razz:
     
  19. Atraeus

    Atraeus Guest

    Well said Asa. Given your reasoning, I have to say my opinion may have just changed on that subject.
     
  20. r2d3

    r2d3 Contributing Poster

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    Good posts indeed once more Asala and Atraeus! I feel lucky to read through :)