To Delete or Not to Delete

DeletedUser

Guest
As I rarely read up on forums, I wanted to make this thread so that I can easily follow the only thing that concerns me right now. The deal as per Rukoh was said to be as follows:

DH&GP delete, MM renames, W2V calls the 70% vote.

This is a huge decision so I would like a couple of things clarified please.

1. Assuming the 2 month end is passed, does this mean the renamed -MM- tribe and its members will remain intact and without attacks from all current W2V players as well as your ally Pact from the time we agree to the time the world ends?

2. I read several pages of the Wishes thread today and saw that some players, such as Sidd (he said others feel the same way also), still have issues with -MM- outside of GP and I. If by some chance a rogue tribe or players were to split off from W2V or you decide to turn on your ally Pact and they then decide to take it out on the newly renamed -MM- tribe, what will you do to uphold this deal? Will you support the -MM- members and help them against their attackers so that they do make it to world end intact and in their tribe?

3. If the vote does not go as planned, for whatever random reason, what will happen to the newly renamed -MM- tribe? Will you keep peace with them until world close seeing as they will have upheld their end of this deal by renaming their tribe and having us delete.

4. If this deal is legit, seeing as you and LB are in talks atm, why would you start an op on me when we had not yet declined your offer? It's not like anything was going to change in a matter of days. You should know that even if I do agree to this, I cannot delete whilst under attack. You either want us to fight into the new year OR you want us to delete. Which one is it?


I feel loyalty deserves a greater reward then those that run to save their own skins, but unfortunately, many compromises in W2V standards have been made since the T war and then especially in the effort to have Z and I killed. Due to that, many newbs and refugees will get an undeserved 'win' on this world. Please understand that the ONLY reason I am contemplating deleting is to save my friends who have more then earned a place at world end, if not a win, and that is why I need some clear and concise answers to my questions from W2V leadership. Thank you.
 

DeletedUser104264

Guest
At this point, there are no guarantees. Your friends are being given a chance to make it to the end if you delete. Most of world wants to end now and will not fight once you and GP are gone. You seem to be looking for excuses to not delete. Whether it be a lack of guarantees or requesting that an op be canceled that was planned weeks ago, before talks had begun, and which won't really land before your villages barb, you will find any excuse you need to not delete if that is what you wish.

The only reason to delete is to save your friends and -MM- stats. There are plenty in W2V that will stand down if you delete and those same people will not stand down if you do not.

We understood that you had already agreed to the delete if we do the vote. W2V is willing to give your friends that chance. If you are not willing to also create that chance, that is your choice.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
You are not a leader. I specifically asked for W2V leadership to clarify. I am not looking for excuses as I do not need to look for any. W2V have been asking us for months to delete and I have always chosen to ignore that request. Deleting is also a personal option that any player can exercise at any time. I ask these questions because I want to make an informed decision.

Judging from your post though, it was wise of me to ask as you already come out saying "No! There are no guarantees!". From what LB has told me, the deal between he and Rukoh seemed a lot more solid then what you are now saying here.

As for the op, if it was indeed planned weeks ago, you would think that logic would dictate putting it on hold for just a few more days since we are in the midst of discussion. Obviously I am going to have to defend - if I was a spineless coward, I would have left MM long ago and saved my own skin with no regard for anyone else.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Novko is in W2V leadership and his post was spot on. Your 'informed decision' reeks of crawling back. Either you want to delete in order to save your tribe (in which case attacks shouldn't matter one dime) or you do not, in which case we were right to continue the op. Your 'obviously I am going to have to defend' is a baseless statement holding no water. Once you delete, you cannot log in an attacks can still be sent. If you wanted to bow out before attacks then yesterday would have been the best time, and today would be a better time than tomorrow.

If you're unwilling to delete, spit it out rather than cloaking it in terms of guarantees and 'but what if I get attacked'. We do not trust you, and therefore we will not put our plans on hold on the off-chance that you do delete. Logic does not dictate we should put an Op on hold, logic dictates you decided last week when LB approached me, and logic dictates that nothing since then changed the calculation of giving up in favour of your tribe, or putting your precious self above the tribe.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
TL;DR

Summary - delete or be Op'd

2dlmauu.gif
 

sidd 271

Contributing Poster
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2. I read several pages of the Wishes thread today and saw that some players, such as Sidd (he said others feel the same way also), still have issues with -MM-

Presently i have no issue with any of the player. I would be really happy if the world ends 2 minutes later
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Is it W2V's policy to thrash DH , for whatever she has to say ??

W2V is asking both DH and GP , to make the ultimate sacrifice in this game , of deleting their account . And when they want to make sure that w2v is not going to take a U Turn again after they go barb , you guys come up with all these silly theories?? ... I dont think there is anything wrong/ fishy in that .

W2V has always behaved in such a manner , where they just want others to take their commands quietly ... without even raising heads .

on the other hand there are 2 players , who went into a WAR to save some members ,that we all know were in the kill list . They had every chance to opt for a peaceful life for themselves and could have left them to be rimed ... but they Stood for their members and fought hard ( job well done )

today , almost all of those who started the war with them are not there ... and even after many betrayals they are still ready to do it once again for their members who are not even 6 months old in the tribe .

What they ask is just a sense of security that their sacrifice wont go in vain .
 

DeletedUser

Guest
And how pray tell does stopping attacks on DH give them 'a sense of security', why would they need this guarantee if they are to delete? You think about her sense of security, ignoring that to us it just looks like yet another way to crawl out of an agreement. She is setting up the excuses now so that she can blame 'anyone but herself' when a deal isn't struck - par for the course. We're just getting our trashing in ahead of schedule, in the idle hope that we're wrong.

I can write you the script if you'd like:

*DH offers LB to delete if it'll keep MM alive*
*LB discusses with RL to get it done and to ensure the votes*
*DH then raises objections, 'wait, what about...', suddenly not so certain to delete after all*
*MM expects W2V to make the show of faith, again, so that MM doesn't have to, again*
*W2V doesn't stop attacks just for a rumour that DH&GP will delete if they do*
*Deal crashes, DH spews excuses about attacks or guarantees or the colour of the grass that morning*
*DH comes on, fingers pointing, 'we had a deal ready but your leaders would not accept it, not my fault (I wanted to end), those who want to end can still end, blabla'*
*W2V rolls its eyes, business as usual.*

Prove me wrong and I'll be happy since I've been trying to push through this deal against a significant portion of my members. Prove me right and I'll be glad I didn't cancel attacks on DH. Pray tell, why would I change that course..?



Edit; the suggestion that MM can live on to the new year is laughable, if no deal is struck we'll probably mop you up within 3 months, a mere one month loss.
 
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DeletedUser

Guest
Edit; the suggestion that MM can live on to the new year is laughable, if no deal is struck we'll probably mop you up within 3 months, a mere one month loss.

I am not a diplomat , so i hope what i say doesnt take the talks in the wrong directions ... but 3 months ??? i feel u are joking :) also if I know w2v even a bit .. u guys would not talk about all this if you were really sure of moping us in 3 months time frame .

4. If this deal is legit, seeing as you and LB are in talks atm, why would you start an op on me when we had not yet declined your offer? It's not like anything was going to change in a matter of days. You should know that even if I do agree to this, I cannot delete whilst under attack. You either want us to fight into the new year OR you want us to delete. Which one is it?


no where does she talks about stopping the attacks , she had her doubts , she came forward and tried to ask ...

Edit : with sense of security , i didnt mean about her own account ... security in terms of promise that W2V wont be taking a U turn , and start attacking remaining MM guys once DH and GP delete .
 
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DeletedUser

Guest
As I rarely read up on forums, I wanted to make this thread so that I can easily follow the only thing that concerns me right now. The deal as per Rukoh was said to be as follows:



This is a huge decision so I would like a couple of things clarified please.

1. Assuming the 2 month end is passed, does this mean the renamed -MM- tribe and its members will remain intact and without attacks from all current W2V players as well as your ally Pact from the time we agree to the time the world ends?
This is really important. RL or any player from w2v,could you give a simple answer to this question?(only in "yes" or "no")
 

DeletedUser

Guest
I honestly don't get you guys always assuming that there is an ulterior motive with me. dudeja is the only one that actually understood what I was asking. If I am sacrificing my account by deleting, why would I be worried about myself? I just want to know that the guys I will be sacrificing for will be safe otherwise there really is no point to us deleting. Why is it so damn hard for you to understand? As for the attacks, I found the timing suspicious as LB started talking to us and then suddenly the attacks start the very next day. Since you have never kept your word to anyone on this world to date, of course I am not going to trust you blindly. You not trusting me is a laugh as, contrary to your PnP rubbish, I have never actually broken my word to you nor to any other tribe in my diplo work.

You've completely blown the December disbanding out of proportion. It was a mistake, we tried to remedy it as best we can, we tried to move on and accepted the last fake deal but you still seem all so caught up and twisted. Let m make this perfectly clear: we are not interested in any more drama on this world. There is no ulterior motive. I showed that I am over all these silly games when we returned the tag to your tribe and GP sent the circ.

Back on topic, I asked LB these same questions but he didn't have answers for me and so I came here to ask thinking for once you could put aside the emo and discuss it like a mature adult. If I wasn't seriously considering deleting, I wouldn't be asking these questions. Keep in mind that I am deleting for the good of my tribe and not for you so I need to know that they will be ok. Now, are you able to answer the questions Rukoh, or are you simply going to make up another story about what you imagine me doing? Try and answer keeping in mind the person you knew me to be over our one year relationship and not the person you have created for PnP purposes.

Edit: I was also told we would be getting a circ from Rukoh outlining all the details of the agreement but have not seen anything to date.
 
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DeletedUser

Guest
Created, or exposed..? Two years of experiences on both sides of the fence taught me more about you than one year did - it's hardly my fault if you do not cover up your character towards enemies very well. We have a slew of cases where you lied, skewed the truth or tried to portray yourself as innocent while making others out to be guilty. The one where you argued that Baron was the power behind the disbanding was perhaps the most amusing. And what happened to 'the December disband was only fair'? :icon_rolleyes: The fact that you yet again try to claim you're a goody two-shoes while the bad guys only make things up for propaganda is indicative.

The Op was planned before the talks, and frankly if it hadn't been by then then we would have come up with it in case you did not delete.
You should know that even if I do agree to this, I cannot delete whilst under attack.
That indicates that it is, in fact, not only about the good of the tribe.

@Dudeja; I am 'talking about this' because a portion of W2V wants it, me included. If it falls through, the other portion (and then some, including me) will step up to finish the job by hand. It will take 3 months of effort instead of 2 months of nothing, but the presumption that it would take another 7 months is delusional.

@Nuklear (sic); No, I cannot guarantee anything about PACT, nor can I guarantee that nobody from W2V will attack anybody from MM. We can end the war and guarantee that MM will survive this world.
Just like I can't 'guarantee' the vote will pass (though nobody expects it to fail, the possibility is still raised as a 'concern', naturally).
 

DeletedUser

Guest
I understand you coming up with it in case we did not delete. To do it in the midst of talks makes it seem like you are not being legit. On top of that, you don't answer any of my questions. You were supposed to send a circ outlining all these details but I have seen nothing. If "We can end the war and guarantee that MM will survive this world." is true, then I will need to know what needs to happen next. If you do have a circ with all the details, please send it or post it here.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
You misunderstand; the Op existed before talks started, the only thing we 'did' was not canceling it, something that makes perfect sense considering the ample opportunity to backtrack.

I just answered your questions.

The circ would be brief,
'If DH and GP delete, and if MM renames itself, W2V will then call for the 70% vote in order to end in two months and end the war, considering MM neutral.'
I can send it out at any time, but if your pride can't take being attacked then let us know in advance - I won't go through the trouble. Regardless, W2V will not change course until you barb, and no vote will be called until that time.
 

DeletedUser100410

Guest
As i told Rukoh some days ago, GP and DH hold 25% of MM's remaining points/villages but probably more than 50% of the still active fighting points/villages from MM.

So if they delete, W2V would probably face a walk in the park of some weeks until they rim -MM-

So, from my point of view, it is expectable that they (GP and DH) expect some minimal guarantees.

Its clear that W2V dont trust DH and GP and viceversa.

W2V is probably thinking: "this is another treat from this two that try to buy some time or get the 2 month vote so they can survive"
While this two think: "this treacherous W2V liars will get an excuse to rim all -MM- remaining players when we are gone from this world"

To hit the delete button without some guarantees its a jump of faith i wouldnt do unless i trust my counterpart.

So you (w2v) gotta put something on the table here to get them to trust you and delete.

I dont see why you cant say:

1- W2V will not attack MM once they go barb. And it will defend MM players if PACT or rogue players start to attack them.
2- Even if the 2 months vote does not suceed (1) still applies.

thats it, end of this world
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Yup Orsio, you hit the nail on the head. That is all I needed from W2V leadership.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
You have the situation in reverse. This is a chance for MM to get out alive, if they don't choose it due to 'risk' they will certainly lose. The choice is between certain death and 'what is the chance that RL is lying'. Expected values tell us that, however big you estimate the chance is that I lie, it is still not '100%' unlike us rimming everyone slowly. How many actives are there in MM at the moment, six, five? It is a walk in the park now, with or without DH/GP.

I can't give guarantees because good luck finding anyone to defend MM players if rogue players attack them. :icon_rolleyes: I certainly won't spend the time to defend anyone who can't beat PACT.
The vote will pass.
 

DeletedUser104264

Guest
You have the situation in reverse. This is a chance for MM to get out alive, if they don't choose it due to 'risk' they will certainly lose. The choice is between certain death and 'what is the chance that RL is lying'. Expected values tell us that, however big you estimate the chance is that I lie, it is still not '100%' unlike us rimming everyone slowly. How many actives are there in MM at the moment, six, five? It is a walk in the park now, with or without DH/GP.

I can't give guarantees because good luck finding anyone to defend MM players if rogue players attack them. :icon_rolleyes: I certainly won't spend the time to defend anyone who can't beat PACT.
The vote will pass.

I might defend an -MM- player if is a Sidd claim :D
While I won't be attacking anyone if this deal is made, I am not going to be sitting accounts or stacking/sniping villages to defend people against rogue players. People who were given many chances to leave before and even join our tribe. Beyond that, I want to end. I wanted to end in Dec. I wanted to end in August. However, now I won't end until you and GP are gone. This stance is pretty much unanimous from W2V. Some players want more pounds of flesh than that but they are willing to settle if you two delete. Like Ralyn said, not deleting means -MM- is gone completely. There will be no refugees, no one left in -MM-, no stats, no nothing, gone.

I am about flatlining atm. Give me a good reason to continue that trend and others will follow.
 

DeletedUser80927

Guest
Wow
Sometimes you just see and read things in utter amazement and wonderment.

While I fully appreciate a leader trying to do what is best for the tribes members, obviously DH, you should be able to see what you guys have tried up to now has NOT worked.
I have never cared for personal character attacks, but the longer you are playing here, the more you are becoming the Queen of Justification.
I believe you guys led MM admirably in the earlier stages. It is unfortunate it deteriorated to this stage.
However, MM has lost what, some 40 million points so far this month? And according to your members' own comments some half dozen 'real' players remain? In what fantasy world does this give you the right to 'dictate' what terms W2V offers?

Again, I say, it is admirable to 'save' members. There are some 20 members under 500 vills, not really acceptable at this stage. Are you 'protecting' them? I believe the 'terms demandment' bridge was burnt long ago, when you truly had the opportunity to save the members.

There is NEVER any real Guarantees in this game, and it is JUST A GAME. It actually really doesn't hurt to delete :)
Perhaps doing that would give some small redemption, versus totally driving the tribe into the ground, which would be blind not to see that that will be the ultimate result otherwise.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
I wasn't dictating anything CC, I just wanted some clarification on questions I had. I spoke to Rukoh and have it now. I know it doesn't hurt to delete and will do it for the few people left that I still care about. I just didn't want to feel like I was abandoning them to a 'worse' fate.
 
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