Top OD Tribal ranks

DeletedUser

Guest
Well, ever since the ORC/BANG! merge, i was always a little disappointed that the new tribe Organized Coyotes had to start from scratch with OD scores.
Its a shame, because I think many experience players see OD as as much a measure of skill, activity and size as points (perhaps more so?) and seeing as ORC and BANG! had done plenty to get themselves to the top of the Rankings (both are still #1 and 2 for ODD even after 2 months without increase, and ORC are still #1 OD total) it was hard to see how the new tribe of merged players figured because for some reason the tribal points arent carried over with the players.

Adding up the old tribe scores wouldnt work, because obviously not everyone joined - bear in mind PNX is largely ex ORC

Well being too lazy to add up all the individual scores, I may have just figured out (LOL, yes I am still a n00b at times) that the OD scores may be in the TWstats Tribal History. Can anyone confirm that the figures there are accurate?

If so, the OD figures for BANG!? are very impressive ;

ODA 422,777,813 (rank 1 by over 100m)
ODD 271,532,372 (rank 1 by nearly 80m)
OD 694,310,185 (rank 1 by over 230m)

(PS these difference ignore the old ORC and BANG! tribe scores which would make up the new impressive totals)

Anyway, I did this because I remember some n00b in Ad Inf (was it s33u-nomore-jimmy at the start of his misguided rantings???) , extolling that BANG!? were a poor tribe because our OD scores were so low.

How embarrassed should he feel now?
 

DeletedUser

Guest
No, this goes on a different system from the in-game stats. Twstats adds up all the OD's from the players of a tribe, the game adds them up only counting the OD gained from the players while they were in that tribe.

So in reality, though it probably can't be used for the milestone thread, that's as close as you can get to the real thing.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
i think this was the comment by s33u-nomore-jimmy that sparked the interest

s33ujimmy
blocked

#72 2009,June 30th, 03:14



You're obviously assuming that Bang!? aren't point whores. Points don't win wars.
Click to expand...

I think at the time macondude shot him down with a quick calculation of 900m OD for the two tribes merging, but it did make me think about this in more details
 

DeletedUser

Guest
u6s5l. said:
No, this goes on a different system from the in-game stats. Twstats adds up all the OD's from the players of a tribe, the game adds them up only counting the OD gained from the players while they were in that tribe.

So in reality, though it probably can't be used for the milestone thread, that's as close as you can get to the real thing.
Click to expand...

yeah i think i knew that, Player OD is simple enough, Tribe OD is only calculated as OD the tribe gained.

The "gap" is what is the OD of the players in the tribe (fair enough assessment of skill etc) and I think this is the only place to find it. I appreciate this also changes as players leave and join, but for now, it gives us a good appreciation i think
 

DeletedUser

Guest
I can see what your saying Stal, but it's something that many people have to go through.

Lets have a little look at other top tribes that have merged:

C² and CND combined (in game) stats: - Beating out Bang!?'s combined stats for everything!

OD: 841,010,000 (Rank 1)
ODA: 488,810,000 (Rank 1)
ODD: 352,200,000 (Rank 1)


Now let's see =HRV='s stats (from TWstats) if it hadn't been disbanded:

'Old' =HRV= stats:
OD Rank: 10.(84,432,557 score)
OD Attack Rank: 9.(67,501,759 score)
OD Defense Rank: 20.(16,930,798 score)

'New' =HRV= stats:
OD Rank: 3.(375,800,708 score)
OD Attack Rank: 3.(310,050,422 score)
OD Defense Rank: 5.(65,750,286 score)

Combined:
OD: 460,233,265 (Rank 2)
ODA: 377,552,181 (Rank 1)
ODD: 82,681,084 (Rank 6)

So, =HRV= hadn't disbanded, we'd have the top ODA rank (by about 60 million) and second OD rank (barely over C².)


Both of the tribes that merged we're in long drawn out wars, providing a serous OD boost.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
i tried not to add the tribal OD's together because i think that is a figure which is wrong for this purposes.

macondude said:
C² and CND combined (in game) stats: - Beating out Bang!?'s combined stats for everything!

OD: 841,010,000 (Rank 1)
ODA: 488,810,000 (Rank 1)
ODD: 352,200,000 (Rank 1)
Click to expand...

For example, the straight adding up of BANG!, ORC and BANG!? (since merge) OD scores would give ;

OD: 1,064,830,000
ODA: 603,870,000
ODD: 460,970,000

This is just a score of the tribe OD in all previous incarnations, and lets be fair, we could all go back to even earlier tribes....

Rather, what I was after is the OD for the members of the tribe at this time. This way we can measure the combined effectiveness of all members of the tribe.

In this way it is not as simple as just adding the BANG and ORC, or C² and CND scores together.

If you look at the TW Tribal History (which is in TW stats on the Tribe Profile screen beneath the graph) for the top 4 tribes the scores are ;

ODD
BANG!? 271,532,372
C² 176,543,672
PLIGHT 82,843,630
=HRV= 65,580,869

ODA
BANG!? 422,777,813
C² 319,820,669
=HRV= 309,615,039
PLIGHT 239,410,637

OD Total
BANG!? 694,310,185
C² 496,364,341
=HRV= 375,195,908
PLIGHT 322,254,267

Don't get me wrong, i am not quoting these figures as anything but thought provoking. How we score these things is arbitrary anyway, and this is just a different way, that i think has some validity based on the current membership of the tribes. Sure, historical performance of tribes like PLIGHT and =HRV= are higher because they have been around longer, and players that have contributed over time have since left, however to value BANG!? for example as only 156m OD, when the combined totals of their current members is near 700m would also be an injustice.

As i say, its just one way of looking at the tribe OD. No one way precludes the use of others as it were.
 
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DeletedUser

Guest
Stalhill said:
For example, the straight adding up of BANG!, ORC and BANG!? (since merge) OD scores would give ;

OD: 1,064,830,000
ODA: 603,870,000
ODD: 460,970,000
Click to expand...


Now I get what you're saying. Thanks for clearing that up.:icon_razz:
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Cool, i was glad you didnt misinterpret me as arguing LOL

i'm beginning to think this type of OD score is more valid, at least just as valid, as the current tribal scores,
 

DeletedUser

Guest
I'd say just as valid, not more valid. It's true that it shows the current players skill (or stacking ability) but it doesn't show what the tribe has gone through in the past. If a tribe has merged, it doesn't show if they went through any tough wars or just don't give up (like Virus?)
I prefer the current way that OD is shown, but others might prefer the way you've just laid out.
 

MichielK

Guest
The real question behind this is: what is a tribe?

If you think a tribe is defined by simply the sum of all players, the TWStats method definitely has merit. If you think a tribe is defined by the sum of past activities, the TW method makes more sense.

The TWStats method counts the history of the players currently in the tribe, but gives no indication of tribal strength; procedures, teamwork, etc. A tribe could consist of the best and most aggressive players in the world, but if they've never worked together in the past this is not an accurate representation.

The TW method does give an indication of tribal strength, but fails to take into account that strong players may have left. This is certainly a weakness, as can be seen clearly by the amount of defunct tribes at the top of the rankings.

However, while it fails to discount points for players who have left, keep in mind that many large accounts may have been transferred to a new player in the past. Should that OD be counted? I don't think so, which means that both methods suffer from the same problem (albeit the TW method a bit more).

I'm tempted towards the TW method, since it at least takes into account the activity and aggressiveness of the tribe as a whole. In this game, the tribe is more than just the sum of its parts. The problem is that two of the four top tribes in TW (BANG and HRV) have actually started under new names...maybe someone should suggest the possibility of an OD transfer?
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Dusts position of 6th overall in the OD rankings with LS only 9th is a point worth noting... (hey we gotta show an area we r higher than them!)

Unless of course we dont know about yet another disbanding lol
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Really? 6th!?

6 Hrvati 323,69 Mio.
oops... guess not

Tell me again how you beat them?
9 The Lost Soldiers 121,53 Mio.
11 Fields of the Nephilim 94,09 Mio.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Here are the tribe OD stats im talking about taken form the TW site. (sorry for the jumbledness but thats how they cut & paste :icon_neutral:)

Tribe Members Rank Score Attack rank Attack score Defense rank Defense score
BANG!? 71 1 703,302,614 1 428,613,527 1 274,689,087
C² 78 2 493,858,850 2 317,567,643 2 176,291,207
=HRV= 73 3 376,508,987 3 310,646,869 6 65,862,118
Plight 57 4 323,362,827 4 240,453,238 3 82,909,589
~PnX~ 37 5 194,398,959 5 123,775,178 4 70,623,781
Dust 79 6 126,624,548 11 60,539,515 5 66,085,033
Ad Inf 57 7 120,996,715 7 77,490,837 8 43,505,878
Ni! 51 8 111,522,788 6 85,318,940 9 26,203,848
~LS~ 36 9 97,761,920 8 76,739,298 15 21,022,622
 

DeletedUser

Guest
i see.

basically twstats needs updating. they add the players od to the od of the tribe when they join, not the od from when they are in the tribe( should only add the od they gain within the tribe)
 

DeletedUser

Guest
OK so lets look at this from a different angle... does this mean that effectively we have 6th best players in the world and LS have 9th?

(thatll cause a stir lol)
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Ha no.

it means you have 43 more players and still suck ( i kid)

but really it means ur 43 extra players only gives u around 30mil od.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
alba385 said:
i see.

basically twstats needs updating. they add the players od to the od of the tribe when they join, not the od from when they are in the tribe( should only add the od they gain within the tribe)
Click to expand...

No alba, thats the point of this thread. The TW ranking is as you say (OD gained as a member of the tribe stays with the tribe) however i felt this missed the subtleties of the OD for a newly merged tribe like BANG!?
So i figured, TW stats ranking is the sum of all players OD in the tribe (so when a player leaves, their OD is deducted from the tribes and vice versa when someone joins)
I guess this allows a different but equally valid measure of a tribes strength.
 
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