W8 World in Numbers

-PayBack-

Guest
lol yes and his comment about 5th columnists is a glaring example of his BLOC mindset... someone in FENIX talks to someone in KNT, and speaks his mind, is labelled a 5th columnist. :lol:

Don't speak your mind in FENIX.. you'll be labelled a traitor, just as they were in DAVOE.

Sorry Blue eyes but fortunately I think Pani has a more reasonable head on his shoulders than you ever did.
 

blue eyed sandwalker

Guest
Haha, you guys make me laugh :lol: (We should have a flogging a dead horse smilie! ), and heh, no offence but you two need it at least as much as me!! ROFL

Payback, i never requested admittance to BLOC, nor ever wished it, for the reasons outlined above, although as i said Pani did.

As i have said numerous times, i am not PRO Bloc, as in the entity itself or how it works, has worked, and therin lies the distinction.

Sure, i am generally pro Clorox, and i like and respect CEG. REB i just don't really know, never really sharing any Geographical or Diplomatic interests with them.

But as i have stated many times, the whole Bloc/abloc thing, unless you are part of either Faction directly, isn't really an issue, although i know you, Pyro and CSB, being directly a part of it, tend to view all within that framework, and sometimes i think that can be a narrow view.

One can share many views, even enemies, allies etc, without particularly liking an entity like "Bloc", and for the same reason "Abloc" if it becomes merely the same in that it views all as Pro abloc or not - what are you replacing exactly, therefore?


Yes, at the time, it was purely for Fenix, and no doubt it helped Clorox - and no harm done if it did, i've never made any bones about that ... but also the distinction between what is good for fenix, and it not being a BLOC/Abloc greater issue, you guys could never get past, which i can understand to a degree... but well... sometimes such a narrow view isnt helpful - but the only reason was a strategic one for FENIX.

As to Pani, aye he is a canny leader, although him stating, as he did - what was after all rather a slightly different question: that "He would have viewed 2500 fakes as hostile too" is not quite the same thing is it? :lol:

It was clear what was going to happen to KOF in the south, and Fenix needed an outlet westwards for expansion and strategic grounds.

As to the other issue, if you had read the mails, combined with postings on the forum, i suspect, whatever KNT's direct involvment may or may not have been..

I suspect that both you, in the same position, Pyro and esp CSB, were this happening internally at KNT itself...

would take a very dim view to a small group looking to split the tribe, collect players together that might split away, and to deliberatley in their own words to try and stall operations, or put emphasis into areas that were crazy, or just not important to the current tribes stated approach -

There is a distinction with players talking to whom they like and indeed having any view they want, and that was never curtailed, but it's another matter entirely that they should be open if they are to remain in their tribe about what they are attempting, talking about and doing.

Sadly for them they had no real support, and FENIX was never ever going to be a DAVOE, but i think 99% of tribal leaders would take the issue seriously.

When i decided to leave Fenix to have more fun in a smaller tribe, i was upfront with Pani and drew up a list who i might invite, and after a few negotiations, we pretty much sorted it out amicably.. but certainly upfront and honestly.



*hands the flogger back over to Payback* :lol:

Oh and Merry christmas to you all, while i am on :D
 

-PayBack-

Guest
Well first of all I don't believe ABLOC are wishing to replace BLOC.. merely remove it.

Also when you're at war with a large entity like BLOC, you do have to tend to narrow things down to them or us. If you look at the stats and every thing is great against BLOC, it would be silly to ignore one of their allies if that ally was making huge gains against you or your allies. That will have an impact on the overall war, whether they see themselves as Pro-BLOC or not.

And as far as talking to one or two of your members is concerned, all I did was say that I think they should be allowed to speak their minds. One of them told me the majority was against siding with BLOC, so I said they should be allowed to express that opinion and I hoped the leadership listened.

If you think I was trying to encourage a small group to act in a subversive way, I'd like to see the posts that led you to that conclusion as I don't recall ever behaving in such a way.
 
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blue eyed sandwalker

Guest
Don't take it so personal.

But regardless of any outside interference, it was an issue that needed dealing with, and was.

Your mails .. were careful, to a degree.

..and the whole discourse extremely valuable.

ere'..anyway..no "Merry Christmas"??? :0
 
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-PayBack-

Guest
What makes you think I'm taking it personally? I'm not, merely expressing my point of view. I know I often use smilies but when I don't, it doesn't mean I'm angry :icon_evil:

My mails were careful lol.. ok you mean you can't give examples of me being subversive :icon_razz:

Maybe we don't celebrate Christmas where I am?

Ok, actually we do.. Merry Christmas
 

Oragix

Guest
Payback said:
Don't speak your mind in FENIX.. you'll be labelled a traitor, just as they were in DAVOE.
Aww, that was uncalled for... No one was labeled a traitor in DAVOE without reasons :p

Blue said:
But as i have stated many times, the whole Bloc/abloc thing, unless you are part of either Faction directly, isn't really an issue, although i know you, Pyro and CSB, being directly a part of it, tend to view all within that framework, and sometimes i think that can be a narrow view.
I think you are wrong here. Back in the glory days of DAVOE, before Kalraz left, he often said the same thing, sit on the fence and not join in on either side until it looked favorable. I generally disagree here, since, I feel that if you are just sitting around waiting for the right moment, you might pass up a lot of chances to get actively involved. There were many, many times where I felt that we should have jumped in on the war, and it would have a HUGE effect for us if we did, we would have so much to gain from it by pledging full allegiance to one of the sides. When we finally did, however, someone changed their mind, but hey, that's politics for you :p

What I'm trying to say is, watch out, if you stay out of it as a faction war for too long, you might end up burning yourself at some point ;)

Also, it really doesn't matter if you're pro or anti BLOC, all that matters is your personal gain from the war, and how well you can adjust to what side you chose to work for/with ;)

And... Merry Christmas (YAY, Christmas vacation finally came! :p)
 

-PayBack-

Guest
Aww, that was uncalled for... No one was labeled a traitor in DAVOE without reasons :p
Not true, I knew someone in DAVOE who was publically labelled a traitor for not wanting to attack their friends during the KNT / DAVOE war. Not wanting to attack your friends doesn't mean you're not loyal to your tribe.
 

Oragix

Guest
Not true, I knew someone in DAVOE who was publically labelled a traitor for not wanting to attack their friends during the KNT / DAVOE war. Not wanting to attack your friends doesn't mean you're not loyal to your tribe.
It does when it's a full-scaled war. If you don't put your personal preferences aside and fight for the tribe you are in, you are not loyal enough to the tribe. Especially not when your tribe is suffering even more based on this decision. I mean, how can I expect that my neighbor, who is in my tribe, will help me if I come under heavy attack, if it's accepted that he may chose to put our tribe aside because of friends? I hope you see my logic here :)
 

-PayBack-

Guest
It does when it's a full-scaled war. If you don't put your personal preferences aside and fight for the tribe you are in, you are not loyal enough to the tribe. Especially not when your tribe is suffering even more based on this decision. I mean, how can I expect that my neighbor, who is in my tribe, will help me if I come under heavy attack, if it's accepted that he may chose to put our tribe aside because of friends? I hope you see my logic here :)
Well maybe that's why our people are happier as we don't make them attack their friends. Seriously is it that hard to work around? If they won't attack a particular person, get someone else to do it. Ok short term it might be more work and a bit tricky sometimes, but long term happier people mean less inactives.

On the other hand, forcing someone to attack their friend MAKES them disloyal and unhappy.
 

pyronixcore

Contributing Poster
It does when it's a full-scaled war. If you don't put your personal preferences aside and fight for the tribe you are in, you are not loyal enough to the tribe. Especially not when your tribe is suffering even more based on this decision. I mean, how can I expect that my neighbor, who is in my tribe, will help me if I come under heavy attack, if it's accepted that he may chose to put our tribe aside because of friends? I hope you see my logic here :)
I never expect KNT or KNTC players to attack players they are friends with. Even if they're in BLOC tribes. Oh wait, DAVOE was in BLOC. Go figure.
 

-PayBack-

Guest
Yes we're had ex THE and ex Suigen in K42 who did not want to attack their friends, and we didn't push the matter. End result? The targets are now gone anyway, and they are stilll loyal and damn fine additions to our tribe.
 

Oragix

Guest
Well, I don't know about anyone being labeled a traitor in DAVOE anyway, so...

And yeah, I can understand the not wanting to attack a specific target. I mean, I for the most part wouldn't attack a couple of players, regardless of what tribe they are in, but if I should chose not to attack any players that I see as friends, I wouldn't be able to attack any of the BLOC leaders, yet still, I have attacked W!NNER at some point, and I would most likely do it again, even though I don't like it, but he is on the other side of the fence, and marked as red on my map, as I am on his
 

pyronixcore

Contributing Poster
Well, I don't know about anyone being labeled a traitor in DAVOE anyway, so...

And yeah, I can understand the not wanting to attack a specific target. I mean, I for the most part wouldn't attack a couple of players, regardless of what tribe they are in, but if I should chose not to attack any players that I see as friends, I wouldn't be able to attack any of the BLOC leaders, yet still, I have attacked W!NNER at some point, and I would most likely do it again, even though I don't like it, but he is on the other side of the fence, and marked as red on my map, as I am on his
It's just a fact of the game. Some people will keep fighting no matter what, some would rather avoid a physical confrontation with online friends.

I made a really nice friend out of a player, but still attacked and took some of his villages when a weak spot appeared in his defenses.
 

blue eyed sandwalker

Guest
I made a really nice friend out of a player, but still attacked and took some of his villages when a weak spot appeared in his defenses.
mate, if you get visited by three Ghosts this Christmas... my advice is.. listen to the third one :D

Yours, Tiny Tim :)
 

bronzl

Non-stop Poster
Yeah, stealth paint :) ....... i couldnt saw what your post was because of that, dammmnnn.....

You also use nicknames man? ROFL