What happened

crabjr

Well-Known Member
Ok, so we ran an OP on a player, the first attack we got him to 5 loyalty. Then I attacked again, and he went to 1 loyalty. Checking twstats, he appeared to have nobled himself at 17:00, then attacked me with a full nuke + 3 nobles from the village he just finished nobled himself from.

Reports:
http://en75.tribalwars.net/public_report/1cf05ae45e9a01a1d53c9c4dec227dc3 - village goes to 5 loyalty at Aug 04, 2014 01:00:01

http://en75.tribalwars.net/public_report/c56021ebb6bb97b01002c91127b163e5 - Recap attempt, village goes to 1 loyalty at Aug 04, 2014 13:11:10

- Player nobles himself at Aug 04, 2014 17:27:48

http://en75.tribalwars.net/public_report/c8df166d2fada9126d11c5a8fccf1ce7 - Recap attempt #2, village should of been 18-19 loyalty from time at 13:11:10 Aug 05, 2014 00:47:48

http://en75.tribalwars.net/public_report/a5508862e1f320320ec5e87a63736030 - Player is able to nuke me with full nuke, even after nobling himself Aug 05, 2014 01:08:53
 
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ODkiPPeroo

Guest
http://en75.tribalwars.net/public_re...11c5a8fccf1ce7 - Recap attempt #2, village should of been 18-19 loyalty from time at 13:11:10 Aug 05, 2014 00:47:48

If he capped himself, loyalty would have gone to 25 and then to 39 when you tried to retake.

However not sure how he would have a nuke in that village if it was nobled.
 

crabjr

Well-Known Member
http://en75.tribalwars.net/public_re...11c5a8fccf1ce7 - Recap attempt #2, village should of been 18-19 loyalty from time at 13:11:10 Aug 05, 2014 00:47:48

If he capped himself, loyalty would have gone to 25 and then to 39 when you tried to retake.

However not sure how he would have a nuke in that village if it was nobled.
Well he not only had a nuke but 3 nobles. I killed it all but something isn't right, maybe Asslamecumface can come in since he is staff and already knows everything to sort this out.
 

xXAcidGodXx

Guest
http://en75.tribalwars.net/public_re...11c5a8fccf1ce7

If he capped himself, loyalty would have gone to 25 and then to 39 when you tried to retake.
Actually loyalty would have been at 36, which is what it was at... 1.5 loyalty at 7 hours, that is a 10.5 - 11 raise in loyalty...But that is a moot point to be honest.

it is my understanding, from playing tw since world 2, that when a village is nobled, whether it be your village or somebody elses village you noble, that the troops disappear. How he could have a full nuke, and 3 nobles from this village, after nobling it, is kind of fishy... either it is a glitch in the server, a change that came with an update, or somebody cheated.

Maybe the staff should really look into this, because it is definitely off...
 

MR.MR

Contributing Poster
crabjr said:
asslamecumface
Honey, you rang?

If you noble yourself, you dont lose your troops in the village. This is especially useful when freeing up your first church for quick build when nobling behind enemy lines. This has been the case since I started tw in 2008 with w30 and the first church world.
 

crabjr

Well-Known Member
Honey, you rang?

If you noble yourself, you dont lose your troops in the village. This is especially useful when freeing up your first church for quick build when nobling behind enemy lines. This has been the case since I started tw in 2008 with w30 and the first church world.
Ok thanks, my guess is A LOT of players do not know this, but now I do, I will exploit it here on out.
 

MR.MR

Contributing Poster
Buildings such as the statue and Church will disappear, but units do not, but keep in mind that this is only the case when it is your own nobleman that takes the loyalty below 0, as soon as someone elses's drops you your troops disappear as normal.

You're welcome.
 

ODkiPPeroo

Guest
So another silly change by InnoGames....What is the point of that. Seriously.
 

MR.MR

Contributing Poster
If its a change, then its a change that is at least 6 years old, as it was already in effect/a publicly known thing when W30 opened in December of 2008 (w30 was my first world and the first church world, where the overnobling of your first church was developed as a strategy).

And I think its one of the more real-life realistic features of the game:
Its the middle ages and you are a city in a vast empire, loyal to your leigelord, kushal812. Enemy troops from another empire lay siege to your city and are very narrowly repelled, leaving you still (barely) loyal to the god-king kushal812. In his infinite wisdom, kushal812 sends a representative from his court (nobleman) to boost your morale (loyalty) to his cause, showing you that he still cares about even the smallest members of his empire. Why would your village's army disperse in fear as a result?

What it seems to me, is that in this modern day era of mega-activity, coplayers and farming, people no longer take the time to learn the intricate mechanics of the game as the focus is on playing harder instead of playing smarter.
 
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ODkiPPeroo

Guest
Good point asa, but at the same time changing mechanics is a GOOD thing. It prevents something from getting stale. The reason I call it a silly change(if it is indeed a change) is that the dev's could have made much more interesting/useful changes than something to benefit what will many times be simply a mistake.

They have modified Tribalwars since its initial version obviously but in the majority of the changes they have been met with a lot of skepticism and regret. Good changes would be making mechanics such as sniping/backtiming/farming harder and more difficult to do opposed to making them easier. Good changes like the fake limit help with the chaos of the game but bad changes like statues and archers and coins only benefit the players that like you said, DONT play smart.
 

crabjr

Well-Known Member
If its a change, then its a change that is at least 6 years old, as it was already in effect/a publicly known thing when W30 opened in December of 2008 (w30 was my first world and the first church world, where the overnobling of your first church was developed as a strategy).

And I think its one of the more real-life realistic features of the game:
Its the middle ages and you are a city in a vast empire, loyal to your leigelord, kushal812. Enemy troops from another empire lay siege to your city and are very narrowly repelled, leaving you still (barely) loyal to the god-king kushal812. In his infinite wisdom, kushal812 sends a representative from his court (nobleman) to boost your morale (loyalty) to his cause, showing you that he still cares about even the smallest members of his empire. Why would your village's army disperse in fear as a result?

What it seems to me, is that in this modern day era of mega-activity, coplayers and farming, people no longer take the time to learn the intricate mechanics of the game as the focus is on playing harder instead of playing smarter.
Love the play on words. Sadly in this case he was to lose the village if this game didn't hate me. Sent a noble train and village went to 5 loyalty, it goes up to 22, and I drop it to 1 loyalty. He meant to recap the village after I took it, but his misplay actually ended up allowing him to save his village as I already had a noble enroute.

All in all, I can get it, but odki is right, this hardly comes in a strategical point, more or less just mistakes.
 

MR.MR

Contributing Poster
In this specific situation, Kushal seems to have benefitted from dumb luck of having nobles already in the air, and you having bad loyalty. However, this is a tactic that can be consciously used to save your ass, and my allegory was intended to explain the logic behind why the game would not take the troops away from you when you noble yourself. Typically you only overnoble yourself when you cap/recap a village and send too many nobles, however I have launched nobles at villages of my own to conquer myself many a time over the years after loyalty is dropped below 25 and my troops are intact. Better to save your troops, get another attack/defend out of them and force your opponent to play Roulette-of-the-Gods with their loyalty drop while you have more time to move D into place to save the village altogether.
 

crabjr

Well-Known Member
In this specific situation, Kushal seems to have benefitted from dumb luck of having nobles already in the air, and you having bad loyalty. However, this is a tactic that can be consciously used to save your ass, and my allegory was intended to explain the logic behind why the game would not take the troops away from you when you noble yourself. Typically you only overnoble yourself when you cap/recap a village and send too many nobles, however I have launched nobles at villages of my own to conquer myself many a time over the years after loyalty is dropped below 25 and my troops are intact. Better to save your troops, get another attack/defend out of them and force your opponent to play Roulette-of-the-Gods with their loyalty drop while you have more time to move D into place to save the village altogether.
Yep, thanks for summing it up, will have my guys know and any others that are willing to have a read of this will probably pick up on it as well.
 

Victini

Guest
So it's best to noble yourself if you're ever below 20 loyalty (i.e. 5) in order to get a better fighting chance. Hmm, convenient and definitely exploitable. Seems kind cheap to be able to obtain an instant 25 loyalty than to normally wait for loyalty to grow.
 

ODkiPPeroo

Guest
In this specific situation, Kushal seems to have benefitted from dumb luck of having nobles already in the air, and you having bad loyalty. However, this is a tactic that can be consciously used to save your ass, and my allegory was intended to explain the logic behind why the game would not take the troops away from you when you noble yourself. Typically you only overnoble yourself when you cap/recap a village and send too many nobles, however I have launched nobles at villages of my own to conquer myself many a time over the years after loyalty is dropped below 25 and my troops are intact. Better to save your troops, get another attack/defend out of them and force your opponent to play Roulette-of-the-Gods with their loyalty drop while you have more time to move D into place to save the village altogether.
Yeah I hear ya, It was a good way to explain why it makes sense, and there is definitely SOME strategic implementation in it. The fact that it exists is news to me though, so will be good to know going forward.
 

MR.MR

Contributing Poster
So it's best to noble yourself if you're ever below 20 loyalty (i.e. 5) in order to get a better fighting chance. Hmm, convenient and definitely exploitable. Seems kind cheap to be able to obtain an instant 25 loyalty than to normally wait for loyalty to grow.
Your opponent gets instant 25 loyalty instead of having to grow it from zero (or god forbid -34, the lowest possible loyalty you could get), why shouldn't you have the same opportunity?
 

alihumphrey

Guest
I'm pretty sure this goes back a very long way as I think I did this on world 15 (by mistake) and we had a similar conversation (on the externals), although I have played a lot of worlds and so I could be confusing it with one of the 30's.