What's that?

KBS.Skill

Guest
If you want to win an argument, you have to listen to or read the entire opposition, no matter how long it is. There is no "to long, not worth my time", at least not as long as you want to win said argument while not looking like an idiot. When something comes before congress or such, people can sit up there talking for days to postpone wear the opposition down, but if the opposition were ever to say "to long", that would result in an instant loss.

I believe that is Huntys point ;). If you want to continue an argument, and have people atleast try to look at it from your perspective, you have to take the time to read and understand theirs as well. If not, either don't respond to the argument anymore, or admit defeat. Don't continue arguing and repeating the same thing without reading the other sides rebuttles. Otherwise you look like a moron. :icon_biggrin:
 

Lord Gorwad

Guest
Quite a few of the "intelligent posts" aka walls of text that I've read, show that the poster didn't bother to read and understand the post that they are responding to. Just an observation...
 

Dualistic.Soul

Guest
Quite a few of the "intelligent posts" aka walls of text that I've read, show that the poster didn't bother to read and understand the post that they are responding to. Just an observation...
True true :p
 

xB00MxHEADSHOTx

Guest
Ummm....anyway. I attempted to seek assistance for those of you who have great difficulty with the monotony of letters laying across a page, but I was only able to find that you are not alone. It seems...an entire nation is finding themselves at a loss when it comes to how to handle things that many learned in grade school like "reading". After spending some time myself, researching the trend of sighs and bellows which frequently come from people all around the United States, I began to fear for other large communities, that they might also soon be losing themselves in a sea of uncertainty as their eyes pass casually by these strange little creatures called "words".

The reason for my concern was soon realized as players like:



Shakespeared - Who is not from the United States,


But Shakespeared is not alone, nor is he not the only non-American Tribal Wars player who is not quite sure how to handle something so powerful. Other decent tribal wars players such as Bite.Me, who is not an American, are also having difficulty:
What I get from all this is that you're trying to imply that Americans are so stupid and they're some how spreading it:/ -'That's a pretty low river to sail' -If you get my drift.
 
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*Huntress*

Guest
What I get from all this is that you're trying to imply that Americans are so stupid and they're some how spreading it:/ -'That's a pretty low river to sail' -If you get my drift.
I'm an American. Go figure. So I guess I feel I have some right. I have to say, I did lmao at the "spreading" it piece...I can see where someone might take that from it. But no, it really wasn't really my intent to focus on Americans. Was just saying, it looks like it's more than just the Americans now. So yea, maybe it's spreading. :icon_eek:
 
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DeletedUser67788

Guest
Huntress, I came to the conclusion that you came across that piece of literature from your research, and then decided to apply it to these tw forums?

I read a lot. I read a lot of fiction for leisure (even the books without pictures), and I read from plenty of other sources too. I have to say that the longer than average Huntress post is still sometimes a difficult brain-meal to chew.

I won't comment on the quality of the typical Hunty posts, because more often than not there is nothing wrong with their content. I do feel that the length is often unnecessary heh.
 

no.99

Guest
Shorten it by 500 words and I will read it.

Edit: Decided to read it and will reply

A Hat. Crazy, funky, junky hat!

Ummm....anyway. I attempted to seek assistance for those of you who have great difficulty with the monotony of letters laying across a page, but I was only able to find that you are not alone. It seems...an entire nation is finding themselves at a loss when it comes to how to handle things that many learned in grade school like "reading". After spending some time myself, researching the trend of sighs and bellows which frequently come from people all around the United States, I began to fear for other large communities, that they might also soon be losing themselves in a sea of uncertainty as their eyes pass casually by these strange little creatures called "words".
I think there is a huge difference between reading, and wanting to read. Admittedly, I am only 16 and when I see your posts, they remind me of the essay I am supposed to write which is due tomorrow. But, saying this, I am a person who writes blocks and blocks of text. I would eloquently write my block of text in the internal forums (TW), and then some other person would reply with their own block of text and my eyes would face palm as I realised that I had to spend longer than 2 minutes reading this reply. The thing is, too much of those "strange little creatures called "words"" gives the average person a headache, because they either can not be bothered to read the text or do not have the mental capability to.
The reason for my concern was soon realized as players like:


Shakespeared - Who is not from the United States, met the text walls with great confusion. Whenever met with complicated statements that include things such as "concrete evidence" and "well known facts", he seems to shut down...his brain unable to connect the circuits between one perplexing word and the next. Rather than acknowledging them as clusters of the very things he uses to criticize people, with phrases like, "Get a life", "Get a reality check" and my very favorite, "Get less time (okay, so it's "you have too much time on your hands)". When met with those things he is unable not to comprehend, you will note him frantically searching for a picture that he thinks is funny to wash it all down (examples 1 and 2). I believe the mass of scrambled letters have caused him to wonder whether he is here, or there. With a name like Shakespeared, one would think...
I think personally, that it is just easier to answer a long response with a colloquialism such as "You fail at life" or "You have no life" or "Your tribe sucks" rather than going through the time consuming process of a proper response. You seem to expect that proper response, as if you think that the average person is going to process your post and respond with a meaty post too. However, most dont.

Anyway, I would like to share with anyone who is still with me, the following piece of literature from my research. I believe it contains enough random pieces of bullshit to hold interest for the 2 minutes to 2 hours that it might take to read it, depending on your level of reading ability and possibly another important little number known as an IQ:
IQ? What IQ?


As you can see above, I am not the only one who has been following the latest trend. Others have also spent time laughing and making fun of researching and making news of things of this nature that some of us obviously share grave concern with.

I believe the question here, is not whether those who still hold the ability to form logical and/or at least sensible arguments through things like "reason" and perhaps even "intellect" should try to help the great landslide of faineancy that has begun to encompass some of our fellow gamers, but rather, whether they can be helped...or if instead, they are destined to continue the trend of unfathonable phrases like "Wat u jus sed meens yer steupid" whenever they are met with something they can't wrap their myopic little brains around.


Discuss? (Morons welcomed--and easy to spot)

:icon_rolleyes:
I hate to say this, but is what you are doing pretty much equal to criticising...say...grammar or spelling? How can you expect everyone who plays .net to have a vocabulary of English which is equal to yours? If you are worried about people not understanding you, why dont you just dumb down.
 
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Petnquaranlor

Guest
*raises hand*

Isn't "Faineánt" merely an Anglicisation of a French word? Faineancy only seems to exist on the internet, and in no "official" format: I can't find a dictionary that contains it. (Linkeh)

I've personally found that people out to prove a point can... overdo it, somewhat. Being intentionally grandiloquent and overly verbose in order to intentionally obfuscate the target of the post doesn't necessarily prove one's point; in fact it is more a point in favour of those who utilise more mundane language in order to facilitate easier understanding than one for the benefit of those who appreciate the more obscure parts of English. In essence: if you wish people to offer an exegesis on the subject matter of your post, it would help if you elucidate what it is you are actually talking about. :icon_wink:

If your aim here was to further split the gap between the "simple english for simple reading" Group and the "Eloquent and Diverse english for Enjoyable and Entertaining reading" Group, by intentionally creating a post that only those who agree with you would even read, and then browbeat those you are flaming with the most obscure words you can think of, then congratulations on succeeding, but we're not really in the habit of allowing that kind of flaming on the forum (even if it is technically for a good cause :p)

If, however, it was your aim to attempt to solve this problem; to introduce a new era of more thoughtful and eloquent English, drawing a compromise between those who demand pictures and bullet points and those who appreciate the written word, finding a way to bridge the gap and eventually usher in a Golden Era of Politics & Propaganda, with pictures and text living in perfect, balanced harmony: I commend your efforts, but I think you lost the point somewhere around the IQ comments...





-------------------------------------------------------




On The Other Hand, you do have a point. There is a terrible terrible slant towards the opinion that "it doesn't matter how bad my post is, if I include sufficient vaguely relevant lolcat or fail pics people won't notice the severe lack of intelligent content and i'll get away with it!"

I made an attempt to tackle this problem some time ago (Linkeh), but due to the fact that I didn't get much of a response from those actually guilty of this verbal atrocity, perhaps Huntress is onto something. Maybe they'll understand if I put it to them in their own language?


Sure, pics can be funny. Sure, a well used image can speak a thousand words. But this incessant, never ending circle of recycled images, irrelevant fail pics thrown in for good measure, crowding around the malformed underfed mewling wreckage of the English language like bullies around a broken child: what is this? Is it English? Is it clever? Is it even coherent?

I guess what I'm trying to say here, is that both sides are guilty. Both sides are refusing the deal with in the language of the other, and I know I'm as guilty of this as anyone. There's no need for a a 1:1 image:word ratio in a post. All it does is cloud your own inventiveness and annihilate any sense of cleverness or pertinence in your post. Conversely, what's wrong with a few pics? An image can speak a thousand words, and hell, when it comes down to it, sometimes a simple one-liner in common language can be that much more effective than the more obscure, if more accurate alternative.

There has to be a compromise, there has to be a middle ground. And it's about time we found it.
 

no.99

Guest
I completely agree, and I have to say sir, your knowledge of the English language is exemplary compared to mine. I have to say that I know most of the jargon that has been thrown at me. I would like to say one thing though before everyone discourages the use of complex language and this is that I would like to encourage a different concept: reading into the context.

For example, I will take this line from petn as it has a link in:

All it does is cloud your own inventiveness and annihilate any sense of cleverness or pertinence in your post
If you dont know what a word means in here, look at the words around it and figure it out, if not, go look it up in a dictionary or copy paste the word into a google search bar followed by a space followed by the word "definition" and find out what it means. I am truly a strong believer that the last safe haven of the English lexicon before its degradation is with the intellectual, and that the intellectual should use their vast vocabulary, if only to teach others which do not have the proficiency of English that they do. So, I would suggest rather than posting more words, use your words better and with bigger and more powerful effect. 50 words can have the same effect as 1000 given the right emphasis and the right context.
 

.AgENT.oF.ChAOS.

Guest
gotta agree with no.99. i had a bit of an eyegasm reading that post, lol. i guess it is true that it's not fair to expect everyone to be willing/able to make long poignant posts addressing every aspect of an arguement in great detail, but that was never my issue. my issue is when people post their side of an arguement and then when a response is posted which contradicts them they complain that the post is too long and try to use the length of the post as an excuse to ridicule the person who wrote it. i guess i just think if someone is unable to respond intelligently then they should just either not respond at all or at least respond from a stance of humility and admit that they are unable to really address what has been said. things like "you have too much time on your hands" or "lighten up, it's just a game" are not reasonable responses when someone puts effort into getting their point across.
 
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*Huntress*

Guest
First of all, at the bottom, I've included a short summary of the rest of what's here, for those who are just looking for "the point".


Enjoyed your post, Petnquaranlor, even if I don't agree with all of the points contained within. Maybe it was your intent to make it as you did...but it was significantly longer than a "majority" of the posts I, and occasionally others have made that people have complained about. Basically, a post like that is generally followed by screams and wails of "Nooo, my aching eyes!", pictures depicting the poster as something he or she isn't, and a general public stoning...few make it beyond that point. Those who do, seem even on occasion to be embarrassed to respond publically because they don't want to look like the person who actually read and came up with any response or contradiction that was any more than the one word pictures that generally follow...is kinda like if everyone is picking on the kid who actually does his/her homework, it's not the time for someone to step in and say, "Hey, I did my homework, too", just to suffer the same fate of everyone launching into him or her as well with fits of laughter and rants of "You just think you're so great." I'm occasionally contacted privately by some who opt not to respond on the forum for what seems to be that reason.


Just to throw it in here before I forget, faineant. Perhaps the word "lazy" would have been better, but I don't think that a single word, or couple of words in a post that someone doesn't know or needs to look up is good cause for discrediting the entire post...definitely not saying that's what you attempted (or have done), but using your pointing out of it to note what I occasionally see happen. Rather than focusing on the meaning of the message or stats or whatever happens to be the purpose of the post, and actually bothering to come up with something intelligible that relates...I can only guess generally, that the point is intentionally overlooked or ignored (I suspect it is often because someone cannot respond to whatever point, accusation, or facts are contained without acknowledging that they themselves are in the wrong, or losing, or whatever the case may be). So instead, they whine about how long your post is, or they post a picture of a clown to follow, or otherwise attempt to have the focus taken off of what you have said, and place it back on how funny or cute they think they are. With the audience that frequently exists in the forum, it pains me to say that it works as often as not.


My point was not to draw out the "eloquent speakers" and such. I'm not one who polices the forum to degrade anyone's use of English, as I know that many of our posters here (and members of my tribe) do not use English as a first language. I speak no other language and find it quite an accomplishment that so many here are able to communicate effectively in a language that is not their own. If you see the first link, under the name "Shakespeared" in the first post, you'll see where this thread essentially began. This thread was given as a link in that thread, where a discussion was began and went on for a page or two about "walls of text", and this was an attempt at stopping the thread from going off topic and give a place to actually discuss what was being discussed there (and frequently elsewhere as well, generally when someone has taken some time to form any logical interpretation of whatever matter is at hand--and someone tries to discredit it all by posting some fail picture of a cat smashed across a glass door).


If people have the right to complain about walls of text, or other things that they see, then likewise, I have the right to "defend the walls". Someone mentioned dumbing down posts, or shortening them to a 500 word limit. I have to say here that frequently when someone sees what they like to call a "wall" is no more in my case frequently, than coming into the forums in the morning, and reading through 2 pages of discussion. Generally I want to respond to more than one person, as I actually read the entirety of what was posted. Rather than making several separate posts and cluttering the forum, I'll make one, quoting each person or comment that I'm responding to. Here is an example, and it's actually I believe the one that started this dicussion. It's not the greatest example, it's just the one that I believe led to this thread. I don't even see it as a wall of text, personally. Just a breaking down of each point or whatever that was made by Shakespeared (in that case), and rather than trying to discredit him by simply posting a picture indicating that he's an idiot, I had enough umm, respect for he had to say to actually respond to it.


Now, rather than posting even the above, which actually isn't the entirety of what I wanted to say on the matter, I could have just said, "You think you're soooo great! Get a life." And moved on with my day. And the relevance of that would be that it's what I, and others here run across when we actually take the time to read, respond, and be involved in the forums. The shame of it is, that "You think you're soooo great! Get a life." Is cheered on by others who believe that the best participation in the forum is a constant menagerie of fail pics directed at any poster who's actually bothered to take the time to explain his or her position.


I suppose the answer is somewhere between some "dumbing down" and others bothering to improve their reading, comprehension and research skills. The truth is, a couple of sentences and a picture is not always sufficient in relaying one's point...unless the point is, "Hey, look at me! I found a picture of a stupid looking clown to respond to the wall of text with (again)."


Partial summary for those who don't wish to take the time to read the above:

If it is considered to be "politically correct" here to constantly put down and degrade others for having posted something that some level of thought went into, that it is just as "politically correct" to call out those who don't.
 

KBS.Skill

Guest
Is it just me, or does No 99 try to sound FARRRRRRRRRRRR smarter then he actually is? He has no flow when he tries to throw in big words :D.
 

tiger32k

Guest
Is it just me, or does No 99 try to sound FARRRRRRRRRRRR smarter then he actually is? He has no flow when he tries to throw in big words :D.
/lol

so now others are starting to notice the trend as well?
 

*Huntress*

Guest
so now others are starting to notice the trend as well?
I have to give you that one. :icon_confused:

I didn't really come here to post about "smarts" or whatever. I am sure it seemed that way because much of the post was laced in sarcasm, with maybe a bit of annoyance behind it, but it wasn't my intent. People here are different ages, different backgrounds, not everyone's going to post the same and that's understood.

I think the issue is lack of effort. It's difficult to keep a thread going if no one actually bothers to counter with some level of reason. Is a shame sometimes to see even simple things like stats posted and the only follow up for two pages to it is something like, "You just think you're so great! So what if we're losing, we're just here for fun!" And then whenever someone starts an actual conversation about what's going on there, is not long before it falls into more of the same, or a bunch of silly pictures...not that I have anything against pictures, sometimes they are very fitting. Most of them I see though, are just kinda thrown out there, about like a lot of the other comments...they serve little purpose outside of cluttering up the thread.
 

tiger32k

Guest
I have to give you that one. :icon_confused:

I didn't really come here to post about "smarts" or whatever. I am sure it seemed that way because much of the post was laced in sarcasm, with maybe a bit of annoyance behind it, but it wasn't my intent. People here are different ages, different backgrounds, not everyone's going to post the same and that's understood.

I think the issue is lack of effort. It's difficult to keep a thread going if no one actually bothers to counter with some level of reason. Is a shame sometimes to see even simple things like stats posted and the only follow up for two pages to it is something like, "You just think you're so great! So what if we're losing, we're just here for fun!" And then whenever someone starts an actual conversation about what's going on there, is not long before it falls into more of the same, or a bunch of silly pictures...not that I have anything against pictures, sometimes they are very fitting. Most of them I see though, are just kinda thrown out there, about like a lot of the other comments...they serve little purpose outside of cluttering up the thread.
:icon_eek:...... i was referring to KBS.skills comment implying indirectly at comments that used to be made to a certian individual called ballistick, seeing the similarities that people are already picking up on with just a few posts made.

EDIT: although yes, i get what you are aiming at lol. im one of the people who have "no life" and read such blocks of text:lol:
 
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Mr. Wigglys

Guest
i really want to comment here but i don't want to come off in the wrong way...
 

Mr. Wigglys

Guest
i mean i get Huntress but i sincerely doubt many players will...
showing intelligence and being intelligence is very different though, and you can know what is going on completley and just not be willing to say much... you can use long words and have no idea what you are saying too and thats the truth...

I hope i didn't offend anyone
 

*Huntress*

Guest
i mean i get Huntress but i sincerely doubt many players will...
showing intelligence and being intelligence is very different though, and you can know what is going on completley and just not be willing to say much... you can use long words and have no idea what you are saying too and thats the truth...

I hope i didn't offend anyone
Not offended here. Apparently in my rant I really failed to be clear at all. I don't care about words, misspellings even bad grammar. The issue, is that it seems people like to come down hard on people who do actually spell properly most of the time, who may have a larger vocabulary, and who take the time to research their argument.

People bitch that they don't want to read it if it's "too long" (and I've never seen anyone write an actual book here...at most, a newspaper article length), they put down people who use larger vocabularies, and the only comeback they have is some stupid picture degrading posters who actually care about how they come off here, and they are praised for it. Just doesn't make a whole lot of sense...unless people here really can't back themselves up, less to take attention off of the issue at hand with things that don't relate, in an effort to take attention off of that issue or discussion.
 

Mr. Wigglys

Guest
i understand :), but in honest opinion that is the quality of a majority of the population wordlwide would react to the sitation at hand in a similar manner. What humans misunderstand, humans fear and what humans fear, humans attack, and such is the way, not only in real life but also in this addctive and incredible game. Tis the sad reality. And upon seing this reality the people like you have a choice to make, and it isn't the easiest one. You can continue to act the way you do, or you can take it down a notch to not upset people or attract attention to yourself... i don't blame shakespeare in fact i undesrtand him, and his tactics will in hand usually out beat yours in this game, when it comes to PnP, as most people will look at his pictures and ignore your text and thus the PnP will be biased towards him. i doubt he has as low level of intelligence as you claim, i think he is very smart to understand that the average player will take his side after reading that thread... this is the sad truth... and i don't blaim you, but agian you have a choice, change to his tactics and go with the majority or follow yours and have a higher qulaity but fewer players reading... (hope it made sense)
 
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