When will we see a non Pay to win world?

[haha212]

Ohh You know if you farm and gather ... you might do better ...just

Dang you got me!

@haha212

Your point is pretty clear to everyone, I'd just like to point out that TW are literally catering to people on isolation/no pp by creating a new classic world. Classic world have premium acc, Loot assistant, and ACC manager ONLY, no other pp boosts can be used.

It starts next week, you're welcome.

Yes sir I am aware! Very exciting, I am glad they are starting to listen to the community complaints. No buying villages on that world

 

[Forgotten]

I said a few years back , that Innogames aren't going to let people play their games for free , they have employees to pay etc , why would they do this for free ? If you want to play a game for free make it up yourself , see if the world will play and play for free . Good luck.

 

[ALessonInPointWhoring]

I said a few years back , that Innogames aren't going to let people play their games for free , they have employees to pay etc , why would they do this for free ? If you want to play a game for free make it up yourself , see if the world will play and play for free . Good luck.

No one has ever suggested the game should be free. There are plenty of for profit games that aren't pay to win.

Path of Exile comes to mind, as do Fortnite, League of Legends, DOTA 2, all free, all far more profitable than TribalWars.

You can make $ without creating an exploitative product.

 

[Mintyfresh]

No one has ever suggested the game should be free. There are plenty of for profit games that aren't pay to win.

Path of Exile comes to mind, Fortnite, League of Legends, DOTA 2, all free, all far more profitable than TribalWars.

You can make $ without creating an exploitative product.

Why would you even compare those games to TW thats the height of fallacy lol

@ OP its doable to be competitive without using PP, just have to play and lose a bit before you work out that time > money. All PP does in this game is give you shortcuts to reaching the end goal but its never going to be as good as actually outplaying the opponent 90% of the time. Nothing is more satisfying than crushing someone who just spent 6 months of time and 6 months of salary only to lose the endgame

 

[ALessonInPointWhoring]

Why would you even compare those games to TW thats the height of fallacy lol

I'm not sure you understand what a fallacy is if you think that is one.

Please explain to me how that statement is a mistaken belief, or where I displayed faulty reasoning.

Or are you only capable of throwing out buzzwords?

TribalWars has far fewer players than those games. That much is true, but its monetization scheme is a large part of WHY it has so few players by comparison.

When it just had premium accounts, and not all the garbage it has nowadays, the game had over a million active players on .net alone and the average world had around 300,000 players on it.

Milking the playerbase for all they're worth was never necessary for the game to succeed. The same as it isn't necessary for those other games to succeed.

 

[Mintyfresh]

I'm not sure you understand what a fallacy is if you think that is one.

Please explain to me how that statement is a mistaken belief, or where I displayed faulty reasoning.

Or are you only capable of throwing out buzzwords?

TribalWars has far fewer players than those games. That much is true, but its monetization scheme is a large part of WHY it has so few players by comparison.

When it just had premium accounts, and not all the garbage it has nowadays, the game had over a million active players on .net alone and the average world had around 300,000 players on it.

Milking the playerbase for all they're worth was never necessary for the game to succeed. The same as it isn't necessary for those other games to succeed.

Maybe because they're non comparable genres with non comparable playerbases? Dont be deliberately facetious

oH No aNoTheR bUzZwOrD

 

[psunitlions1]

So while its interesting that people are arguing for pp but yet my understanding is that TW lets their employees play their games and gives them premium so explain that one--- especially when its quite clear that getting a village to 6-7k points in 2 days is the equivalent of spending close to 500 600 usd for many advocating pp but yet free to TW employees to use as they please? Sorry a distinctly unfair advantage on so many levels.

I suggested in the enhancement forum that beginner protection be lifted when crossing 2k to at least allow surrounding players the opportunity to take down the growing player because as we all know only so many troops can be built in that time frame.

 

[mattcurr]

I realized I don’t feel like arguing with the blind arguing with the blind about cooperate profit models, but I’ll say on a serious note, any one with an iota of experience with the profit models on micro transactions knows they extract their money from an extreme minority with mental disorders which cause them to use these features impulsively. Any company implementing them surely sees their internal data and the morally dubious nature of these features.

 

[Think Twice.]

Paying for the basic premium subscriptions is one thing. Even the +20% resource production, but having the ability to buy endless amounts of resources and rush buildings is where they went too far IMO.

 

[haha212]

Paying for the basic premium subscriptions is one thing. Even the +20% resource production, but having the ability to buy endless amounts of resources and rush buildings is where they went too far IMO.

Exactly. I do not understand what the pp abuser supporters don't understand. Some premium features are fine, but others break the game. As myself and others have mentioned, even a flat buy-in to play a world with no premium exchange would be more beneficial to both parties. I don't think this is the best route, but people don't mind paying for well-made competitive games. However, once you make the the win-condition dependent on who spends more money on the game, that is when you lose a huge playerbase.

 

[haha212]

I realized I don’t feel like arguing with the blind arguing with the blind about cooperate profit models, but I’ll say on a serious note, any one with an iota of experience with the profit models on micro transactions knows they extract their money from an extreme minority with mental disorders which cause them to use these features impulsively. Any company implementing them surely sees their internal data and the morally dubious nature of these features.

Yes, quite pathetic to be honest. These companies work similar to scratch off lottery tickets. They get people addicted to the chance of winning money even though the odds to break even are 1:6. It is truly sad what this game turned into.

 

[Tha Rule]

 

[Jirki88]

So while its interesting that people are arguing for pp but yet my understanding is that TW lets their employees play their games and gives them premium so explain that one--- especially when its quite clear that getting a village to 6-7k points in 2 days is the equivalent of spending close to 500 600 usd for many advocating pp but yet free to TW employees to use as they please? Sorry a distinctly unfair advantage on so many levels.

TW employees don't get infinite premium.

 

[Killer Instinct.]

TW employees don't get infinite premium.

Just the old 100,000 per week still? Missed those days

 

[valtheran88]

I do not think it was that high, I know when I was staff it was alright with a little extra but nothing to scoff at just enough that if I only played a world or 2 I would not have to buy to much. Then it got cut a bit so as to be not all that great. People thinking the in game staff or mods get all this excess premium either need to chill a little or maybe the mods got a huge pay raise after I left the team.

 

[JawJaw]

For full transparency: it is limited to 1200 premium points per month, capped to 7200 premium points total on an account at any given moment in time, which includes PP gathered (bought / farmed) by him/herself (so if a mod already has 6.8k at the end of this month on his account, he'll only receive 400 this month)

So if you really believe that gives you a huge advantage in a world - think again. You can farm more PP in a single week on a new world.

 

[valtheran88]

Oh ok, so there was a premium pay increase. Still nowhere near enough for people to whine.

I would honestly like to see some worlds with older barb settings for barb to population spawn rate.

 

[Pajuno]

hello everyone, i recognize some names, but most i do not. Some of you claiming to have been around since 2008, should be well aware of who i am. I won the first church world, w30, limited diplomacy, limited members, part time family in a world that lasted 4.5 years long.

4.5 years long. Everyone see that? I duked from day 1 to the Victory day. I have to tell you, winning an online game doesnt amount to much. The value i gained from that was the relationships i built and enjoyed and the people that i accomplished great things with. There is a level of commitment to a world that lasts that long, and i dont think we will see its like. I do recall when w30 ended, there were still some single digits and teens worlds left? I played on w6 for 2 years also....

Now, onto the point of this post. that background was there to enlighten those that dont know me yet. but anyways, in those days PP were used to streamline your account. I recall when w6 was still build village by village, no lists, no mass recruits, you had to handle every single village one by one by one. I think i had a couple hundred villages at the time, and it was a lot of work. So introducing pp to streamline didnt give you any real advantage, it was cheap and most people would borrow points from the well to do gamers. The real advantage was being smart enough to use the premium account and the few early scripts as efficiently as possible, and allow you the time to try to live your life around tw. Thats how we took advantage of fewer tribe members, but we also trained our guys in specific efficiencies and we spot checked accounts if we felt we needed too. I worked my ass off to make that world happen, and i spent a long time to succeed. I enjoyed the forums almost as much as i enjoyed taking your villages ingame. Proving people wrong two years after our forum arguments became the sole purpose of my continuing that world to the end. Needless to say, i look fondly on that time and remember the people i smited, the people i saved, and the tribes we ruined. THE HARD WAY.

I came back about 1.5 years ago, dabbled with some friends and made some new ones. I have always been employed, and i have never had an issue spending money on games that i enjoy. at first, i thought it was awesome i could buy resources and pay to finish buildings faster and etc etc etc. You are talking to a guy who basically played tribalwars in the stone age. These skills i had were no longer necessary, because i could purchase points and move my village along faster. This went along, as i outgrew most of my neighbors, but always seemed to be behind others... either way, being able to purchase all these events, resources, the market, etc etc etc.... people stopped playing the old way. Most villages i attacked, players never bothered to defend. When i finally got eviscerated by a well timed, organized and efficient tribe... there were no barbs to bounce my nukes off of. It became a huge hassle defending as a result. The pp finally caught up to me...

So lets look at the problems i encountered.

No barbs - direct result of everyone going crazy on events and purchasing the boosters and such to mint insanely fast. People had hundreds of nobles and not many targets their few nukes could break consistently enough, thus they nobled all the barbs.

player base - not many people stuck around. This has always been the case, incapable players being held up by the tribe until they cant be protected anymore, etc. However, the dropout rate was insane. I hardly got much of a fight before i got wiped out. I also noticed more tribes being cannibalized than i recall before. Few players would really out grow their tribe, betray their smaller tribe members, and then jump to the bigger tribe with a select few and then consume the players left behind. This occurs with great ferocity because there is such a disparity between those that spend a lot and those that dont.

another feature is that just about every world its the same people manipulating and positioning to win their worlds. Some of the dukes that were on that world were one trick ponies, but that was how things go now. It was all manipulation and very little actual fighting....

Events - i had sooo many boosters when i left. part of my skill set was from church worlds.. learning to manipulate the church targets, fake people out and then cap their church and murder their unreligious villages...... That was learned from scouting, planning, and basically knowing my enemies. Now, anything can happen with these boosters. Which, again, having boosters is like flags, and you earn them and they are a way of life and you should know to expect them. That is all fine and dandy, i have always succeeded by stretching to the limit the rule capabilities. My problem with the boosters was the frequency some people had them. Theres a player, cant recall his name... top player on a bunch of worlds. was in Burn on 104 for a few months to start before he selfishly did his move. that guy abused the hell out of pp and boosted so much, he had hundreds of villages while people were just nearing their first hundred.

im sure there were a few other issues i noticed, but that was over a year ago, and ive had to let go of my tw bug. But the moral of my story, and the conclusion of my gripe is that pay 2 win is real. Its ridiculous, and it has ruined the very game i gave up most of my real life to win.

I guess it comes down to w30 was one of my favorite things i ever did at any point in my life. We won so handily against such long odds, and i fought so many forum personalities over the years, it was actually worth something to rule the roost and outlast everyone. i admit, i was a little bit of an ass as i gloated, but come on. I EARNED IT. And now i feel like its not a valuable thing these days, winning one of these worlds. Its a joke. Winning now just means you had a good group who abused their pp.

whew! i felt strongly enough to post this wall of text.. another thing i was known for.

I miss tw and how it was, and im sorry it has become what it was. I was going to dabble this month while my business is closed, but i prefer to troll the forums and post walls of text instead.


ps. Someone posted some bullshit about 300k players existing on those older worlds.. lets be honest. there might hve been 25-50k players realistically. the rest of the numbers came from all the multi accounts people used to create for ha has. i myself had several until tw finally began cracking down around w30. So that can easily explain the huge numbers. but 25k players to start a world? wow. how full was w30??? 104 was only like 9 kds...


if you read it, thank you for your time. if you dont like, flame me for it. But its my opinion, and i have to say there is absolutely some fact behind it.


Pajuno
Iron chef of W30

 

[El Bahattee]

hello everyone, i recognize some names, but most i do not. Some of you claiming to have been around since 2008, should be well aware of who i am. I won the first church world, w30, limited diplomacy, limited members, part time family in a world that lasted 4.5 years long.

4.5 years long. Everyone see that? I duked from day 1 to the Victory day. I have to tell you, winning an online game doesnt amount to much. The value i gained from that was the relationships i built and enjoyed and the people that i accomplished great things with. There is a level of commitment to a world that lasts that long, and i dont think we will see its like. I do recall when w30 ended, there were still some single digits and teens worlds left? I played on w6 for 2 years also....

Now, onto the point of this post. that background was there to enlighten those that dont know me yet. but anyways, in those days PP were used to streamline your account. I recall when w6 was still build village by village, no lists, no mass recruits, you had to handle every single village one by one by one. I think i had a couple hundred villages at the time, and it was a lot of work. So introducing pp to streamline didnt give you any real advantage, it was cheap and most people would borrow points from the well to do gamers. The real advantage was being smart enough to use the premium account and the few early scripts as efficiently as possible, and allow you the time to try to live your life around tw. Thats how we took advantage of fewer tribe members, but we also trained our guys in specific efficiencies and we spot checked accounts if we felt we needed too. I worked my ass off to make that world happen, and i spent a long time to succeed. I enjoyed the forums almost as much as i enjoyed taking your villages ingame. Proving people wrong two years after our forum arguments became the sole purpose of my continuing that world to the end. Needless to say, i look fondly on that time and remember the people i smited, the people i saved, and the tribes we ruined. THE HARD WAY.

I came back about 1.5 years ago, dabbled with some friends and made some new ones. I have always been employed, and i have never had an issue spending money on games that i enjoy. at first, i thought it was awesome i could buy resources and pay to finish buildings faster and etc etc etc. You are talking to a guy who basically played tribalwars in the stone age. These skills i had were no longer necessary, because i could purchase points and move my village along faster. This went along, as i outgrew most of my neighbors, but always seemed to be behind others... either way, being able to purchase all these events, resources, the market, etc etc etc.... people stopped playing the old way. Most villages i attacked, players never bothered to defend. When i finally got eviscerated by a well timed, organized and efficient tribe... there were no barbs to bounce my nukes off of. It became a huge hassle defending as a result. The pp finally caught up to me...

So lets look at the problems i encountered.

No barbs - direct result of everyone going crazy on events and purchasing the boosters and such to mint insanely fast. People had hundreds of nobles and not many targets their few nukes could break consistently enough, thus they nobled all the barbs.

player base - not many people stuck around. This has always been the case, incapable players being held up by the tribe until they cant be protected anymore, etc. However, the dropout rate was insane. I hardly got much of a fight before i got wiped out. I also noticed more tribes being cannibalized than i recall before. Few players would really out grow their tribe, betray their smaller tribe members, and then jump to the bigger tribe with a select few and then consume the players left behind. This occurs with great ferocity because there is such a disparity between those that spend a lot and those that dont.

another feature is that just about every world its the same people manipulating and positioning to win their worlds. Some of the dukes that were on that world were one trick ponies, but that was how things go now. It was all manipulation and very little actual fighting....

Events - i had sooo many boosters when i left. part of my skill set was from church worlds.. learning to manipulate the church targets, fake people out and then cap their church and murder their unreligious villages...... That was learned from scouting, planning, and basically knowing my enemies. Now, anything can happen with these boosters. Which, again, having boosters is like flags, and you earn them and they are a way of life and you should know to expect them. That is all fine and dandy, i have always succeeded by stretching to the limit the rule capabilities. My problem with the boosters was the frequency some people had them. Theres a player, cant recall his name... top player on a bunch of worlds. was in Burn on 104 for a few months to start before he selfishly did his move. that guy abused the hell out of pp and boosted so much, he had hundreds of villages while people were just nearing their first hundred.

im sure there were a few other issues i noticed, but that was over a year ago, and ive had to let go of my tw bug. But the moral of my story, and the conclusion of my gripe is that pay 2 win is real. Its ridiculous, and it has ruined the very game i gave up most of my real life to win.

I guess it comes down to w30 was one of my favorite things i ever did at any point in my life. We won so handily against such long odds, and i fought so many forum personalities over the years, it was actually worth something to rule the roost and outlast everyone. i admit, i was a little bit of an ass as i gloated, but come on. I EARNED IT. And now i feel like its not a valuable thing these days, winning one of these worlds. Its a joke. Winning now just means you had a good group who abused their pp.

whew! i felt strongly enough to post this wall of text.. another thing i was known for.

I miss tw and how it was, and im sorry it has become what it was. I was going to dabble this month while my business is closed, but i prefer to troll the forums and post walls of text instead.


ps. Someone posted some bullshit about 300k players existing on those older worlds.. lets be honest. there might hve been 25-50k players realistically. the rest of the numbers came from all the multi accounts people used to create for ha has. i myself had several until tw finally began cracking down around w30. So that can easily explain the huge numbers. but 25k players to start a world? wow. how full was w30??? 104 was only like 9 kds...


if you read it, thank you for your time. if you dont like, flame me for it. But its my opinion, and i have to say there is absolutely some fact behind it.


Pajuno
Iron chef of W30

Ok

 

[Math Debator]

hello everyone, i recognize some names, but most i do not. Some of you claiming to have been around since 2008, should be well aware of who i am. I won the first church world, w30, limited diplomacy, limited members, part time family in a world that lasted 4.5 years long.

4.5 years long. Everyone see that? I duked from day 1 to the Victory day. I have to tell you, winning an online game doesnt amount to much. The value i gained from that was the relationships i built and enjoyed and the people that i accomplished great things with. There is a level of commitment to a world that lasts that long, and i dont think we will see its like. I do recall when w30 ended, there were still some single digits and teens worlds left? I played on w6 for 2 years also....

Now, onto the point of this post. that background was there to enlighten those that dont know me yet. but anyways, in those days PP were used to streamline your account. I recall when w6 was still build village by village, no lists, no mass recruits, you had to handle every single village one by one by one. I think i had a couple hundred villages at the time, and it was a lot of work. So introducing pp to streamline didnt give you any real advantage, it was cheap and most people would borrow points from the well to do gamers. The real advantage was being smart enough to use the premium account and the few early scripts as efficiently as possible, and allow you the time to try to live your life around tw. Thats how we took advantage of fewer tribe members, but we also trained our guys in specific efficiencies and we spot checked accounts if we felt we needed too. I worked my ass off to make that world happen, and i spent a long time to succeed. I enjoyed the forums almost as much as i enjoyed taking your villages ingame. Proving people wrong two years after our forum arguments became the sole purpose of my continuing that world to the end. Needless to say, i look fondly on that time and remember the people i smited, the people i saved, and the tribes we ruined. THE HARD WAY.

I came back about 1.5 years ago, dabbled with some friends and made some new ones. I have always been employed, and i have never had an issue spending money on games that i enjoy. at first, i thought it was awesome i could buy resources and pay to finish buildings faster and etc etc etc. You are talking to a guy who basically played tribalwars in the stone age. These skills i had were no longer necessary, because i could purchase points and move my village along faster. This went along, as i outgrew most of my neighbors, but always seemed to be behind others... either way, being able to purchase all these events, resources, the market, etc etc etc.... people stopped playing the old way. Most villages i attacked, players never bothered to defend. When i finally got eviscerated by a well timed, organized and efficient tribe... there were no barbs to bounce my nukes off of. It became a huge hassle defending as a result. The pp finally caught up to me...

So lets look at the problems i encountered.

No barbs - direct result of everyone going crazy on events and purchasing the boosters and such to mint insanely fast. People had hundreds of nobles and not many targets their few nukes could break consistently enough, thus they nobled all the barbs.

player base - not many people stuck around. This has always been the case, incapable players being held up by the tribe until they cant be protected anymore, etc. However, the dropout rate was insane. I hardly got much of a fight before i got wiped out. I also noticed more tribes being cannibalized than i recall before. Few players would really out grow their tribe, betray their smaller tribe members, and then jump to the bigger tribe with a select few and then consume the players left behind. This occurs with great ferocity because there is such a disparity between those that spend a lot and those that dont.

another feature is that just about every world its the same people manipulating and positioning to win their worlds. Some of the dukes that were on that world were one trick ponies, but that was how things go now. It was all manipulation and very little actual fighting....

Events - i had sooo many boosters when i left. part of my skill set was from church worlds.. learning to manipulate the church targets, fake people out and then cap their church and murder their unreligious villages...... That was learned from scouting, planning, and basically knowing my enemies. Now, anything can happen with these boosters. Which, again, having boosters is like flags, and you earn them and they are a way of life and you should know to expect them. That is all fine and dandy, i have always succeeded by stretching to the limit the rule capabilities. My problem with the boosters was the frequency some people had them. Theres a player, cant recall his name... top player on a bunch of worlds. was in Burn on 104 for a few months to start before he selfishly did his move. that guy abused the hell out of pp and boosted so much, he had hundreds of villages while people were just nearing their first hundred.

im sure there were a few other issues i noticed, but that was over a year ago, and ive had to let go of my tw bug. But the moral of my story, and the conclusion of my gripe is that pay 2 win is real. Its ridiculous, and it has ruined the very game i gave up most of my real life to win.

I guess it comes down to w30 was one of my favorite things i ever did at any point in my life. We won so handily against such long odds, and i fought so many forum personalities over the years, it was actually worth something to rule the roost and outlast everyone. i admit, i was a little bit of an ass as i gloated, but come on. I EARNED IT. And now i feel like its not a valuable thing these days, winning one of these worlds. Its a joke. Winning now just means you had a good group who abused their pp.

whew! i felt strongly enough to post this wall of text.. another thing i was known for.

I miss tw and how it was, and im sorry it has become what it was. I was going to dabble this month while my business is closed, but i prefer to troll the forums and post walls of text instead.


ps. Someone posted some bullshit about 300k players existing on those older worlds.. lets be honest. there might hve been 25-50k players realistically. the rest of the numbers came from all the multi accounts people used to create for ha has. i myself had several until tw finally began cracking down around w30. So that can easily explain the huge numbers. but 25k players to start a world? wow. how full was w30??? 104 was only like 9 kds...


if you read it, thank you for your time. if you dont like, flame me for it. But its my opinion, and i have to say there is absolutely some fact behind it.


Pajuno
Iron chef of W30

Paj <3

You could still play the classic servers, would be what you are looking for without the PP craziness