Who killed RAM?

Discussion in 'World 30' started by SOLDIER 1st Class, Feb 21, 2012.

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  1. 50 Calibre

    50 Calibre Guest

    What is funny here and we have even discussed this in our council the last couple weeks is that we have not even executed a full tribe wide coordinated assault yet on anyone in phoenx or loen YET. All that has been done is some small scale rehearsals. This is not to say one would not happen, cause it will. The question is when and who will be the target of this undertaking. After you witness that, then come back here and say that we coordinated with HG on anything. :icon_cool::icon_cool:
     
  2. r2d3

    r2d3 Contributing Poster

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    There are people in BH council who know who is fighting who, except for the usual ones? :lol:

    After reading most posts, I almost fully agree with 0.50' as allways. And as a sidenote, NO, BH never needs other tribes nukes, but HG launches did cause damage and wasted Phoenx resources to recover, so I would add that to the "coalition" de facto scheme, I keep talking about.
    I am just wondering what is going on behind the scenes with the recruiting of those few HG players who still want to play game. I see for example echao is back on line firing at will @ Phoenx. Maybe your new recruit. Dammit, we failed to remove that one last year - I even rememember his legendary "escape to the south". I think nbd had something to do with that achievement. Great gameplay back then :icon_cool:

    PS A full salvo does not mean a thing my friend. Continuous rollouts and rebuilding does. The slackers/passengers you insist on carrying are still there. They may carpet bomb an enemy. But a willing and dedicated player will rebuilt and reborn himself. This is what the Phoenx is all about anyway :icon_idea:
     
  3. 50 Calibre

    50 Calibre Guest

    Yeah that was one of the coolest moves I have ever seen and he performed it while under heavy attack from South Central. I would have to say it most likely saved his butt from extinction.
     
  4. r2d3

    r2d3 Contributing Poster

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    Who would have thought back then that he would "Escape to BH" afterall :lol: :lol: :lol:
     
  5. 50 Calibre

    50 Calibre Guest

    Sorry barking up the wrong tree now.:icon_biggrin::icon_biggrin: I think a lot of the friction brewing is because we have refused more recruitment. Changing tribes though will not change what is happening, some have a hard time accepting that.:icon_cry:
     
  6. Cy-Pres

    Cy-Pres Guest

    For the most part I agree with the Big Gun. However, I have seen enough "it doesn't matter" posts to know why this argument keeps going on.

    50 Cal, if you would just state "Here's what we had with RAM - a NAP. Unlike a true NAP - where we don't attack you, you don't attack us - there was a more complicated situation going on. Yes, we suggested Phoenx targets for RAM to hit that we were hitting at the same time which shows some coordination; yes, some BH players sent support to RAM players under attack; and yes, RAM requested more help; and yes, RAM wanted more help and BH would not comply with those demands because (frankly) they were stupid; and yes, BH took numerous RAM villas with RAM permission to get closer to the front with Phoenx. So, it was a 'NAP with benefits' if you want to put it that way."

    I don't think anyone really cares all that much - OTHER than the idea that this information is being given out piecemeal. MissingMatt I believe is just saying "Hey, it wasn't a true NAP - it was something more." Of course it was - enemy of my enemy is my friend and all that - and BH wasn't in it to "save" RAM but to use them as a tool.

    RAM perhaps deluded themselves into thinking they deserved more - but from BH's standpoint, my guess is the approach was "we'll help you if we have a chance, BUT ONLY after thinking about if it both benefits us to do so AND doesn't hurt our main objective. RAM, feel free to join in with anything we're doing offensively, but we're not forcing you to do so, nor are we expecting much help." BH and RAM were not friends, they were just fighting the same opponent - and anything RAM could do to slow down Phoenx (absorb nukes and nobles, eat defense, force Phoenx to defend from the East as well as the North) greatly benefitted BH. Which, of course, was the idea.

    Lastly, this conversation shows why R2's stats are the most appropriate (for now, at least.) What was left of and active in RAM was actively attacking Phoenx, diverting defense and forcing Phoenx to continue the march eastward until the natives were subdued. It wasn't like RAM was sitting back and hiding and hoping to survive a couple more months - they were doing the best they could to convince BH that they were worthy, active, and fighting by offering villas, trying to coordinate attacks, sharing a forum, seeking defensive help against Phoenx nukes and nobles. This was a serious situation that deserved Phoenx attention. So Phoenx taking out RAM first to secure the eastern border should have been a priority for Phoenx, and should be reflected in the stats to give the true picture of the last two months.
     
  7. Kanipuppeli

    Kanipuppeli Still Going Strong

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    ODD is a funny stat. You can't gain it from inactives or barbs....
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2012
  8. 50 Calibre

    50 Calibre Guest


    So basically you want me to say that our relationship with HG is similar to that of phoenx's relationship with loen?? Can't say that it is. If you all want me to say it's more then a NAP but less then a full confed. I guess on that note we could consider it. However as stated many times thru out already when the agreement was forged, it was for a pure NAP at its definition. What has been done by a small minority may or may not change that definition but our agreement still stands at a NAP. It was laid out plain and clear to those involved what this means and what to expect and what not to expect.

    So what has this changed on the battlefield?? Nothing..... Does missingmatt win some kind of journalist award?? No.... Does it change the front lines in this big war?? No...... Does it prove anyone right or wrong?? No.... So I ask you all again, what is the point of knowing anything about the others agreements they have in place?? Do we care about what all loen and phonx have agreed to?? NO.... All we need to know is that they both fire on us so we fire back. So why is it so important to know the facts about BH relationships?? All that needs to be studied is that they fire on phoenx and so does BH.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 8, 2012
  9. noobaxes

    noobaxes Guest

    Well, according to Phx, Loen is just a NAP as well so it has a very wide definition.

    In terms of stats, R2 does make some sense in a way that shows that Phx are not being annihilated at all. I've been the first to point out D2 situation back in the days so I can play with many numbers and make them say whatever I wish them to. That does not show that Phx are beating BH in any way however. It's a good motivation tool for Phx, nothing else.

    However, the situation is very different in many regards. D2 was an easy target to keep surviving\growing while some other stuff was happening north. If Decide\BH had not been there, it is not so certain that it would have shifted the way it did. There will be very few events that can significantly change the way the battle was shaped.

    BH biggest threat is itself.
     
  10. 50 Calibre

    50 Calibre Guest


    So you come here to tell me and all others that stacking villages and killing nukes is a skill??? :icon_eek:

    Look, the only stats worth mentioning in a war is the caps. You can ODA and ODD all day long but if you do not take the villages of your enemy, then you are doing nothing but exchanging troops.:icon_neutral:
     
  11. Cy-Pres

    Cy-Pres Guest

    50 - I was merely trying to say the denial and/or discussion about "is it a NAP? Is it not a NAP?" is being continued by the little details about the relationship coming out over time, instead of simply stating "look, here's what was going on - call it what you want." No, it makes no difference on the field at all, and is a quite silly thing to waste PnP words on. I don't much care what BH's "official stand" is on the matter - "more like a confederation than a NAP" or whatever - it was what it was. But it's the denials and subsequent revelations that have continued the debate. 'Nuff said by me on it. (Note: Phoenx never denied a close assisting relationship with LoEN that I can remember. Something less than allies, but something more than just a NAP, is how I recall it being explained. Phoenx would do their thing, LoEN would do theirs - and they wouldn't actively go against each other and when their interests converged, they would work together (not as in coordinated attacks or whatnot, but more as how you have described BH/RAM interaction) as long as there were other fish out there to fry.)

    Noobie - I submit that R2's stats show the best picture of what is going on overall on W30. Sure, you can carve out stats for, say, LoEN v. BH or Phoenx v. RAM - but that doesn't enlighten interested observers as to how things are really developing (as much as raw stats can.) I wasn't saying that they show Phoenx beating BH, or BH beating LoEN, or whatever - but viewed intelligently they can show growth, patterns, movements, strategies, activity, coordination. That kind of stuff. My only point.

    And similar to RAM recently, D2 was actively attacking Phoenx in the beginning and coordinating with RAM - forcing Phoenx to place effort and troops to a southern border as well as an eastern one. And so Phoenx slaughtered D2 while attempting to hold the line against RAM, and then once D2 was effectively neutralized the priorities shifted. So the analogy stands (as far as that only.) Yes, I'm not disputing that RAM's incredibly arrogant and ill-planned hostilities against Decide had a huge impact - heck, you and several other powerful, good, and active players left because of that - there has not been a similar event so far in this latest war.
     
  12. r2d3

    r2d3 Contributing Poster

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    We are having this conversation at the wrong thread, but it is okay. Thank to most of you who understand my stat show as I have written in the past.


    So, the overall picture since decleration is:

    Side 1:
    Tribes: Phoenx, LoEN
    Side 2:
    Tribes: BH, BH., =H==G=, Pajina

    Timeframe: 16/03/2012 00:00:00 to 07/05/2012 18:14:36

    Total conquers against opposite side:

    Side 1: 3,795
    Side 2: 3,160
    Difference: 635

    [​IMG]

    Points value of total conquers against opposite side:

    Side 1: 34,973,582
    Side 2: 29,247,852
    Difference: 5,725,730

    [​IMG]

    And no. Phoenx is not "winning" BH. Not at all. But this might change by the ones who will keep playing. Last advice to BH. Dump the inactives and the sits. Fight with your own accounts. Take schietstoel and onny as an example of how the game should be played now that the north is secured.
     
  13. 50 Calibre

    50 Calibre Guest

    Understood Cy....

    [SPOIL][​IMG][/SPOIL]
     
  14. Kanipuppeli

    Kanipuppeli Still Going Strong

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    Lol.. no i come here to tell you that gaining billion odd is a skill. You can't make it far enough in a world to gain a billion odd if you can't properly snipe and support. Defending is one of the basic fundamentals of the game. If you can't defend you can't make it. I just find it funny that BH needs to tell HG how to defend. I know for a fact they can defend perfectly well. And they've done it to the point where they are sick of it. Not many tribes besides RAM and PHNX have seen the amount of Inc for the amount of time that HG has. Maybe if they got the support they asked for, they could have converted to a more offensive tribe and actually gained some numbers. But what you guys don't see is, the talent they have and the war hardening they have wont be able to be found in BH for a while. Just remember that when PHNX whoops your asses.
     
  15. 50 Calibre

    50 Calibre Guest


    You know most snipes are done so that the troops land behind the clearing force. This way the noble is killed in the following waves which have less troops as escorts. So they did not gain a billion ODD by sniping. I will say that 80% of it was gained thru stacking villages before enemy nukes arrive. So that has nothing to do with skill, only the ability to log on and send support to a village.

    We did not tell HG how to defend, we suggested a new way to do it. Are you telling me that you would have sent all your defense to cover every single village you have along the front line???? If that is how you defend then please let us know what account if any you play so we can pay more attention to it. I highlighted one of your statements and ask that you read back again cause clearly you are missing something or you are very clueless on how to play efficiently to.

    You do not stack nor should you expect your tribe nor your allies to support every single village you have along a front line.

    I am sure players smarter and larger then me will agree with this statement. Once again Kanipuppeli, there were HG members asking for all their villages to be stacked with 10 or more defensive villages along their front line with Phoenx. Would you agree to that??????

    You also cant make it far in this world wothout taking villages from those who are your enemy. Clearly this is something that escapes you as you judge a tribe by 1 set of numbers. Just shows how one dimensional you are.:icon_cool::icon_cool:
     
  16. r2d3

    r2d3 Contributing Poster

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    In every new world I join and play for some weeks, there are allways those who do not want to read advice and keep boasting how big experience they have had. Kani is probably at that phase allways. He should come up here with a thanks for the strategies you are disclosing, but meh... He has his own views.

    But I am smaller and less smart and I agree, so ... :lol:
     
  17. noobaxes

    noobaxes Guest

    I think anyone with REAL fighting experience would agree with that. All I can remember from Kani is that he was throwing half D's in front of Phoenx nukes and was wondering why he was getting owned, while crying for tons of support.

    The Phx vs. BH will be quite an interesting war with experience on both sides and softer spots that will be taken care of eventually.

    :icon_wink:
     
  18. Kanipuppeli

    Kanipuppeli Still Going Strong

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    My mates on w60 now how trash i was when i played on w30. I don't boast about anything on any world. I can't take my past account and plonlk it down on a new world. Therefore, boasting of my achievements means nothing.
     
  19. Kanipuppeli

    Kanipuppeli Still Going Strong

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    All i can remember from you was leaving RAM because you were butthurt that no one ion the RAM leadership would listen to you. :icon_cry:

    Just to clear this up, i did whine for support. But when i asked for support it was because karma told me to. I never wondered why i was getting owned. I was horrible.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2012
  20. Kanipuppeli

    Kanipuppeli Still Going Strong

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    And last but not least, my response to you.

    Your correct. You do not stack every village on a front. But you DO stack most of them.

    No. HG shouldn't have asked for that much support. Were i in their position i would have asked for as much as you could spare. You are not my tribemates, nor are we allies. But when you have the type of NAP that HG and BH had (from what i hear) it is not out of question to ask for some help.

    And im sorry my statement on sniping didn't come out the way it should have.


    (Sorry for the triple post. Im on my phone so i don't really care. A mod can fix this if they would like.)