That is a blatant misconstruction of the situation. I was under the impression BD were attacking another member, and en mass. I did not even touch the attacks on Acvenne.
really, you were? Then why was only his name mentioned? I just combed through this entire thread. I found not a single other name. Not one.
1.
TT bringing up how we're attacking DECIDE
2.
TT yet again
3.
this guy is on fire
do note that up to there no names are mentioned. But wait ... what happens now?
4.
Chamica bringing up the player in question.
5. [spoil]
1. There is a very distinct difference between claiming a refugee, and claiming a breach of an agreement. You accused Decide of being dishonorable for breaking an agreement that we neither made, nor broke. You and I talked about it, yes, but to the best of my knowledge, it was never agreed upon, and even so, those talks came after Acvenne joined. If you CBA to get your facts straight, then I'd say you're poorly representing your tribe.
Even if you could have proven either, that would have been something, but you cannot; instead, you changed your stance now to going after a refugee, which is just switching excuses, and once more, its kind of sad that you feel you need one.
2. Whether it is your whole tribe, or just the ones at our border, BD is now attacking Decide. Unless you are rogue members, you are acting under BD sanction, and as such, representing your tribe. Likewise, any support via attacks, defense, sitting, or information gleaned or communicated through your tribes networks is a means of your tribe assisting in this coup by default, and as there is no way to either prove or disprove this is in fact taking place, it is unreasonable to assume you truly are on your own. I know BD members are notorous for embellishing and fluff, so forgive me if I do not believe any statements to the contrary.
Simply put, say what you will, but there are no two ways to look at this Gicu.
3. Now, lets look at timing. Acvenne joined our tribe on the 27th of August at 01:00:01 ST. You have had about a month and a half to make a move, yet you conveniently start after we begin a war elsewhere. Now, again, there are no two ways to spin it Gicu. This is opportunistic by definiton.
However, I will say this, it is certainly a compliment that you would feel the need to wait in order to successfully attack Decide. That says a lot of your faith in our abilities. :icon_cool:
So BD is attempting to escape negative PR by claiming it is an act of only some individuals grounded on poor excuses, also giving themselves the opportunity to say it wasn't really them putting their all into it if and when they fail. Likewise, even though the facts clearly prove you did feel the need to milk this opportunity, you can claim it isn't related to the war at all and somehow, its reasonable...
But then, I can claim to be sent from the future to save the world, so I guess your not the only ones that can be full of crap.
[/spoil] (note: i added bold)
Yup, that's you running with the Acvenne name. I went through all your posts and found a couple more where you mentioned Acvenne. Not once did you mention another player. Given that you already apologised for reacting on misinformation that BD was launching widespread attacks on DECIDE: please do tell what player you're talking about then if it's not Acvenne?
DN aren't attacking Green. They are attacking refugees. They were attacking these refugees before they were in Green. Green attacked DN, and yet still, DN has not, aside from Toasta, attacked Green. Nevertheless, once more, I was not referring to attacks on Acvenne.
So DN aren't attacking Green, they are attacking refugees in Green. Let's see how this particular topic was covered earlier in this thread shall we?
1. Pure loonanimus (from DN) admits they're attacking and that refugees make up a large part of GREEN. He does so in
this post.
2.
Liquid C, not in a hurry to declare war but clearly stating entire Ks of refugees adding to the feeling that DN might as well declare on them instead of beating around the bush.
3.
Atraeus (yup, you) agreeing with that assessment.
I could
quote more but i guess you get the general feeling here?
Its not the same situation, and again, you are conveniently ignoring the circumstances I addressed, ignoring the fact that I was speaking based on a different player getting attacked in an effort to find guilt where there is none.
So yah, i guess you're right. It is not the same situation by far. Whilst you had to admit you were wrong in accusing BD of attacking DECIDE ... you yourself agree that DN might as well declare on GREEN and get it over with. From what the various DN posters in this thread have said, they pretty much feel the same.
Of course, you already know all of this. That's why you're just making blanket statements such as "waaaaah, you're ignoring circumstances" and "waaaah, i was referring to another unrelated player". Actually referring where you found the info, what player(s) you are talking about and sticking to your point would be to hard, given it'd mean you're making the same argument i am.
Thats a rather weak point for a tribe that claims it is putting into effect plans of expansion everywhere that's not THE. :icon_rolleyes:
Glad you agree with me. Of course, it was exactly the same as your point about DECIDE, GREEN and [DN], but carefully looking past that with a nice smiley next to it can indeed fool people. Good job! Next time i'll put it in sarcasm tags so you don't get it quite so easy to beat around the bush.
I never argued whether you could or couldn't go after a refugee. Obviously you missed the part where I said that several times. Was that an accident? Or another convenient smokescreen? :icon_eek:
I didn't, i merely asked you to back up what the difference is between what we are doing and what [DN] is doing. I see no argument in your entire post to rationalise why it's a "weak" or "low" move from BD but not when your allies do so (or you yourself in fact).
The difference goes back to the last couple points I just made. I was not refering to acvenne. I made this abundantly clear. I was refering to another, unrelated player.
Abundantly clear indeed you do not want to name the player in question, but you did mention Acvenne's name several times.
I have made it clear to what degree I can speak for Decide, and to what degree I speak for myself. Gicusan has never, so far as I have seen, expressed clearly his role in his tribe, and I was under a misconception that he represented his tribe as a leader. Obviously I was wrong with that, and I admit it freely, but that does not reflect upon my status as a member of Decide. Seriously, thats just a petulant effort to blame me of being guilty of someone elses actions.
yes you did make it clear. In this thread you are pretty much the only one who's representing DECIDE. Sure there's the odd member posting here and there, but you are clearly the spokesmen for DECIDE on the PnP. I admit, it's a crazy notion that the guy answering all questions/concerns/allegations/random contributions is a spokesman for a tribe. Especially when he has been representing DECIDE on the forums for quite some time now. And doubly so when he makes a post like this:
[spoil]
When Decide declared on Reborn, I gave the speech to Banned4Life because I wanted his image on it, even though I was a member of Decide's leadership at that time. It was a strategic move as I saw it. He wanted me to post it, since I wrote it, but I didn't care for the acknowledgment. I was on the verge of my infamous (albeit failed attempt to) quit, one I may soon repeat unfortunately, and it would be the war that would put us on the PnP, and in the public eye. What good would it do the tribe for me to make our breakthrough appearance with me at the helm when I, at that time, had no intentions to stick around? Nevertheless, he did give me credit for it in a spoil at the bottom when he posted it, and some, such as yourself JP, gave me props for it.
When I decided to step down from the Council recently, I was also forced to step back from the game somewhat. The Aristocracy asked at that time if I would stick around long enough to wear my team shirt on this thread, as well as write the declaration, undoubtedly seeking to take advantage of my particular... talents. Even at that time, we had our plans within plans in effect, and foresaw this war. I told them I could not oversee the PnP as I have in the past, which is very much the one in charge of public relations, as RL could pull me away at any time, but I would certainly support my team as best I could. They agreed.
When the time came, and I wrote the declaration, they were so impressed with it, they demanded I post it, to ensure I get the credit I deserved for it. I accepted their wishes, and staying true to my promise, have been here ready to defend Decide against its antagonists on this thread.
[/spoil]
Notice the bolded parts. You are saying you are here to defend Decide against its antagonists on this thread. By the request of the leadership. So yeah, i consider you part of the leadership. Even inactive, you are by far more a leader of decide on the pnp then anyone else.
Further, I did not say I was here against my wishes. Once more a convenient misonstruction of a fact. After all Baddy, there is a difference between being the voice of a tribe, or simply wearing your team jacket, as JP put it. I made it clear where I stand with that.
True, you didn't. But you did say you wouldn't have time for it but put on the team jacket because they asked it. Hence my deduction it was against your wishes, my apologies on this count then.
You can say: "You represent Decide! You do! You do! YOU ARE DECIDE!!!!" But, sadly, no amount of desperately pressing this further misconstruction will make it true.
as i pointed out above, you said it first
I am simply supporting my logic. The debate was created by Gicusan, when he accused Decide of breaking an agreement, and then question the reasoning behind my logic. Whether the information is accurate or not, that has no bearing on how valid my method of reasoning is, and as you yourself continue to debate it, that question of motive seems as though it would be more accurate if aimed at you.
No you're not. You are making a case which if the tables were turned you wouldn't make at all. Not in private and not out loud. You have been vocal on a number of occasions on these forums about refugees. Not once did you say that there's a certain time-frame within which one needs to attack those refugees to make sure they don't lose the refugee status. Quite the opposite in fact. You ignored that part of my post full-out of course, when i presented you with hard facts (with a link so you can check with ease the validity of the facts) that the refugees from -O- over which [DN] is attacking GREEN members were in the same situation as acvenne is with BD (wel, we got more caps on acvenne prior to him switching tribes but no biggie there).
So please do shed some light on this: what is the special circumstance that makes it so bad for BD to be attacking acvenne (or any other ex-MF members)? Why is he not a refugee?
See, i'm a nice guy. I've even underlined the question (which i also posed in my previous post) so you won't "overlook" it :icon_wink:
:icon_twisted: remember the devil rides a white horse