TW vs ATEN - The Old Fued [Does TW Still Have More Conquers?]

[DeletedUser]

The short answer: Yes, they do.

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I'm bored. I wanted to know the truth whether or not ATEN have caught up yet in conquers. Here's some stats:

Since 11th February this year (http://forum.tribalwars.net/showthread.php?t=122312)

The TW Super Mega Ultra Tribe: 118,177 villages - 43.17%
ATEN, HOT, SLB, EleAud, DbT: 104,425 villages - 38.15%
Total Villages in the World War: 222,602 villages - 81.32%

And now today.

The remnants of TW: TW/LoL/LWS: 102,181 villages - 41.15%
The olde Alliance: ATEN, HOT, SLB, EleAud, DbT: 108,342 villages - 43.63%
Total Villages: 210,523 villages - 84.79%%

(I lol'd when I remembered what I called TW. It was sarcastic humor.) This was just a look at where the original war has gone since then, that's why MPX wasn't included. If I did, it would hide the real progress that ATEN, HOT, etc have done themselves.

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Then, looking back on my old stats topic that showed the conquers between TW and ATEN from the start of the war to 2008,August 30th, 06:25 (http://forum.tribalwars.net/showpost.php?p=2068097&postcount=30)

TW: Side 1: Total conquers against other side: 9,333
ATEN: Side 2: Total conquers against other side: 4,727
Difference: Total conquers against other side: 4,606 +TW Family

Adding that to the conquers since then to now, we can get a better idea of the conquers, still not 100% accurate since tribes have disbanded, but the first 90 days of the war will be accurate despite disbandings (because I kept track of it back then)

Timeframe: 30/08/2008 06:25:00 to 03/11/2009 13:46:47

Total conquers against opposite side:
TW: Side 1: 3,541 (+9,333) = 12,874
ATEN: Side 2: 5,418 (+4,727) = 10,145
Difference: 1,877 (-4,606) = 2,729 (+TW)

So ATEN still have another 2,729 conquers to catch up when it comes to TW. Personally, I expected this. Originally I slipped and instead looked into stats from 30th August 2009 to now, and I was shocked how small they were, I was going to say this, "seems really far fetched but that's probably due to tribes disbanded. I'm not sure what happened to old TW tribes, old ATEN tribes, but chances we just can't retrieve it. I was pretty sure TW would still have conquered more, because 4.6k conquers is a lot to catch up. However, 1,102 conquers in over a year, is simply so bad, it's impossible. I don't believe the authenticity of it." But now I don't have to! (I quoted it because I wrote it and I don't want to waste it) To be honest I'm glad the efforts of last year out shine the slackness of this year.

Just to be clear, TW aren't winning by a long shot at this stage, but they do have more conquers under their belt.

I was curious, you might've been too.

Conclusion: TW are still up 2,729 conquers against ATEN since the war started.

 

[DeletedUser]

Nice stats DC,now we know where we are in terms of getting back to what we had in a manner of speaking,

Cheers

 

[DeletedUser]

Yeah, it's all silly in practicality but it's good to keep the flame of motivation alive.

 

[DeletedUser]

DC,
you really are bored man. Good stats tho.
The brain power into that....i will have to send you a package via the murray over xmass to prevent you overheating. LOLZ

You recall EleAud getting bagged when we 'officially declared' ?
Have you taken a look to see if the war had been good for us?

Cheers
Jas

 

[DeletedUser]

Don't worry, I've been doing this so long it's easy. :icon_wink: (But if you have a power pack for 450 Watts, I could use it since mine broke forcing me to use an old Windows 98 computer!)

I've done enough work in the past that I can commonly use it as a reference (it's also fun looking through the 109 topics I've made since I've been on this forum - every single one was clever, too - by clever I mean, it wasn't a dull thread, it was, every time, a wall of text and effort. They're like awards, in a sense. Makes me feel like I accomplished something - zomg massive brackets [it's 1am]).

The only thing that really stops me posting lots of stats for the Alliance is because, well, they were the guys attacking dad and I, and then later on making comments that we quit, and that they were all the cause. :icon_wink:

But while it still bugs me a bit (3 years is a long time for teenage years), I'm getting over that.

As for if EleAud gained anything, you'd have to look at where EleAud was before. I didn't keep much data on EleAud because I was mainly in my little box enjoying taking lots of caps with my dad against ATEN and barbarians, but I do have the world in numbers - so I have something, just not much.

In 2008,October 13th, 16:51 - EleAud had 3,812 villages.
13 months later...
In 2009,November 1st, 15:39 - EleAud has 6,826 villages.

You've grown 179% in a year. Continue that for another year, you'll have approximately 12,219 villages.

Now, of course we have to take into consideration the other methods of gaining villages other than just growth. Here, we aim to take into account membership joining. TWstats only shows how much points a player has when they join a tribe, so assuming 1 village = 10,000 points, we can come to a conclusion that...

Since between 2008 October and 2009 November, EleAud has had roughly 25 member changes (11 Left & 14 Join) and out of those changes, the total village transfer solely due to tribe change has been approximately 1,553 villages.

We take 1,553 villages from our current figure and we get the amount of villages EleAud has now excluding the villages they earnt solely from recruitment.

This leaves us with...

In 2008,October 13th, 16:51 - EleAud had 3,812 villages.
13 months later...
In 2009,November 1st, 15:39 - EleAud has 5,273 villages.

And now we can see that due to conquers, you've grown 141% in a year. Continue that for another year, you'll have approximately 7,432 villages. Re-include the 1,553 we took out before, and you'll come to the final approximation that in another year, at the current rate, EleAud will have 8,985 villages. Or rather, by 2010, December 29th.

 

[kurmis2]

I want remind how much members TW kicked just because they where under attack :icon_wink: so i think if TW did not kick them then stats would be 50 -50 now... and where is mpx in stats??? :icon_surprised:

 

[DeletedUser]

I want remind how much members TW kicked just because they where under attack :icon_wink: so i think if TW did not kick them then stats would be 50 -50 now... and where is mpx in stats??? :icon_surprised:

It's hard to statisically measure how leavers and kicked players have affected stats.
You can look at village totals if you want to get a rough idea. TW are down 16k villages despite being up in the cumulative stats. So that's over 17.5k + however many abandoned villages TW has taken during the entire war = villages of players who quit and/or were kicked or jumped tribes. Many are currently part of the growing gray army.

He didn't include MPX because we were not included in the original stats.

Besides, I think that MPX is only +1300 or so if I remember correctly. Someone posted the stats not too long ago. That's not enough to get the alliance even. We still have a long road to pave with skulls so we can tread it to dust or get bored and go gray trying.

 

[DeletedUser910]

I want remind how much members TW kicked just because they where under attack :icon_wink: so i think if TW did not kick them then stats would be 50 -50 now... and where is mpx in stats??? :icon_surprised:

He should have done ATEN only, since that's who the comparison was with. Not every tribe who decided to attack TW.

 

[DeletedUser]

Total conquers against opposite side:
TW: Side 1: 3,541 (+9,333) = 12,874
ATEN: Side 2: 5,418 (+4,727) = 10,145
Difference: 1,877 (-4,606) = 2,729 (+TW)

So ATEN still have another 2,729 conquers to catch up when it comes to TW.

Sorry, DC. If you simply look at Steveeo, a member who had been a pain in the rear for so many years in the northeast. After 10 days of hammering him a new hole in his head. He got smart and deleted.

He had 1,581 villages. Leckster got his eyes gashed out. Seraph Angelus made a serious fatal flaw in her initial defenses against my attacks, realized how serious that mistake was she deleted.

Villages no longer matter. Its the people holding the banner over those villages that are our real targets.

 

[DeletedUser]

No need to apologize, Congo. I actually completely forgot about deletion. Looking at it now, the only problem with it, is that it happened on both sides.

But Steveeo is a big one. Huge, even. I personally can't balance that out with an equal dismissal or deletion on ATEN's side.

Regardless though, this was just for conquers, and not for proving anything on either behalf, just to find proof as to whether TW or ATEN were literally ahead when it comes to the formal score. The rest can't be measured fairly, really.

 

[DeletedUser]

The rest can't be measured fairly, really.

True. And we probably had more people quit than TW, and yet they were much smaller.

What is going to really matter is this: Both families were successfully in cleaning their own backyard. It took ATEN longer, but I feel we did a much better job than what TW did. With that measure of success, can we translate that to success on the battlefield on the frontlines? With the fall of wabbit-169, the K68 Campaign and a few other events, I can say that ATEN is succeeding whereas TW failed to motivate their players to push through the frontlines (more as a result of failed diplomacy rather than just fighting). The decimated friendship had with HOT was a critical factor in this result.

 

[DeletedUser]

The TW Super Mega Ultra Tribe: 118,177 villages - 43.17%
ATEN, HOT, SLB, EleAud, DbT: 104,425 villages - 38.15%
Total Villages in the World War: 222,602 villages - 81.32%

And now today.

The remnants of TW: TW/LoL/LWS: 102,181 villages - 41.15%
The olde Alliance: ATEN, HOT, SLB, EleAud, DbT: 108,342 villages - 43.63%
Total Villages: 210,523 villages - 84.79%%

TW may still be up in conquers but the old allience is up 4000 villages and TW is down 16,000 villages

 

[kurmis2]

I personally can't balance that out with an equal dismissal or deletion on ATEN's side.

I don`t remember if there was any Aten player who was dismissed because being under TW attacks....

 

[Scholesy2005]

Hey congo remember when Aten owned K35 yeah thats not so now is it? TW has pushed fronts back and it only took you a year to take out Steveo congrats on that roflmao. As for seraph you keep bringing that up but there are circumstances surrounding that which you have no clue in. Should we get the list of Aten players that have hit delete? It can swing both ways before you try pull that shit.

 

[DeletedUser]

Hey congo remember when Aten owned K35 yeah thats not so now is it? TW has pushed fronts back and it only took you a year to take out Steveo congrats on that roflmao. As for seraph you keep bringing that up but there are circumstances surrounding that which you have no clue in. Should we get the list of Aten players that have hit delete? It can swing both ways before you try pull that shit.

Who side are you on again?

Oh yeah. You're on ours. :icon_wink:

 

[DeletedUser7488]

Hey congo remember when Aten owned K35 yeah thats not so now is it? TW has pushed fronts back and it only took you a year to take out Steveo congrats on that roflmao. As for seraph you keep bringing that up but there are circumstances surrounding that which you have no clue in. Should we get the list of Aten players that have hit delete? It can swing both ways before you try pull that shit.

Burn!

 

[DeletedUser]

Couldn't have said it better myself matey,Scholesy was that your sheep's clothing slipping or was that foot slipping out of the closet?

Who side are you on again?

Oh yeah. You're on ours. :icon_wink:

 

[DeletedUser]

He may be on our side now but he wasnt for a long time so i guess you can expect some deffence with the TW side as to make him and his past look great, but it is the truth as well i guess they did move into that continent :icon_wink:

 

[DeletedUser]

True. And we probably had more people quit than TW, and yet they were much smaller.

What is going to really matter is this: Both families were successfully in cleaning their own backyard. It took ATEN longer, but I feel we did a much better job than what TW did. With that measure of success, can we translate that to success on the battlefield on the frontlines? With the fall of wabbit-169, the K68 Campaign and a few other events, I can say that ATEN is succeeding whereas TW failed to motivate their players to push through the frontlines (more as a result of failed diplomacy rather than just fighting). The decimated friendship had with HOT was a critical factor in this result.

While I'm happy to agree to that, neither of us have any real clue. We're just throwing opinions in the midst because we both think we've got a good idea what happened. But it doesn't prove it.

You're saying ATEN have done better, but they've had inevitability on their side. If you stay hiding under a rock for years while war wages on, you might come out on top, but you'd be a fool to claim to be the best fighter. I'm not saying TW are better (and I'm not saying ATEN have been hiding under rocks), I think we all even out in the end, but you're saying ATEN have done better than TW have ever done, and that's just a silly thing to say. Really, it's propaganda. ATEN failed before, when TW was succeeding. What does it all matter in comparison? MPX are probably going to take over in future, and then we might just have people saying ATEN failed and MPX did better, but even then it still won't be saying anything beyond opinion and propaganda.

ATEN's powerful, they're not weak, but they're not the best. You can mention all the things that changed, and I probably could too (Idefix, Cpt_Jack, K35, South West, oh the hell with it), but in the end, if you want to give these tribes the merit they actually deserve, it can't be a one way thing. If you don't, then it's just more and more of the same vicious propaganda-bias cycle that's been going on forever.

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As for the mention of dad and I's fall, HOT did a good job, Scnapi did really, as well as The Emperror (who is from ATEN, I know), but we quit before there was any chance to truly test the abilities of those involved. That doesn't mean either side failed, it just means there were other factors involved that gave a nothing-result. If you think it would happen a second time around, I'd be welcome to give it a shot in the summer holidays or something, but at that point it's just getting silly.

The current ATEN and TW are alive in the present, the old ATEN and TW are gone. The old TW and the current ATEN are just in different timezones. TW fell, there was a small gap of next to nothing, and then ATEN became epically awesome. They weren't because of one another, but because of internal reasons. Some specific things: ATEN became good with the comeback of you, Congo. TW fell with the departure of Lippa.

This thread is looking at the ways we can compare the old TW to the current ATEN, purely for interest's sake. Opinions simply can't come into play here.

TW may still be up in conquers but the old allience is up 4000 villages and TW is down 16,000 villages

Exactly the reason I included those numbers.

This isn't to show that TW are one up on ATEN. That's not what I'm saying at all.

This is just a look at the argument, and providing some actual numbers to it. ATEN are winning now, but comparing old TW to new ATEN, old TW have a couple thousand more fancy numbers in the formal conquers list. That's all.

 

[DeletedUser]

In my honest opinion:

Better players? TW

Better teamwork? ATEN

Your downfall? Diplomacy

Our success? Diplomacy

Why is TW doing so bad? Not because Lippa left. The greater influence was the failed diplomacy that allowed a dangerous tribe, HOT, to turn 180 degrees and burn your tribe 360 degrees.

Why is ATEN doing so good? Not because Congo came back. The greater influence was the failed diplomacy TW allowed itself to get into against the dangerous tribe, HOT.

With a few exceptions, TW got mostly crap players (sim players, barbarian eaters). HOT managed to hold onto its core, most loyal, and ever dangerous players. But they also gained something else: A desire to bring down TW for all the propaganda crap that had been created.