Tribal Wars, A Dying Game?

[chrisparty]

I think a lot of factors are all coming together in a perfect storm to cause this decline in no. of players.

- recession : yes, people are less willing to shell out money to play, and playing without premie is enough to drive players away

- TW is not retaining new players : I first started playing around the time that w19 opened, and if I hadn't been introduced by a friend and started to get to know people, I wouldn't have learned how to play the game properly. TW does not do a good job of incorporating a good way to learn. You either have to know someone who can teach you, or go to a lot of trouble searching external resources (forums, web, etc).

- too many worlds opening : this topic has been discussed over and over, but TW is basically opening worlds so often that players are not motivated to stick around on the ones they are playing because basically they can count on another world with settings they like being opened in a couple months' time.

On a side note, it would be interesting to know what the number of players on the main screen is a reflection of...my guess would be player accounts with an active registration on at least one world, which leads to a question of does the decline in "number of players" reflect an increase in coplayers? I don't think it accounts for all of the numbers, but I'm sure it's a factor, though one we have no way to measure, unfortunately.

 

[DeletedUser]

What about a world where hauling capacities of units are drastically reduces, and the resource production of pits is increased? This would attempt to solve the problem of experienced players farming 24/7 and just over running any players in their area - it would allow even the casual players without much time on their hands to try and compete with others, and most players would have similar income. I feel this world would be more geared towards new players, the vets would probably hate it as they would feel the skill ceiling is relatively low.

I agree. This would give newer players a slight advantage - until experienced players had huge pits. The experienced player is going to find a way to use every change in game mechanics to their advantage.

What mut be done is not to change the game to attempt to cater to newer players. What has to happen is something that makes experienced players want to help new players

 

[DeletedUser]

I also think Ankaar was spot on (or close), the level of the 'average' TW player has risen in the past years tremendously. When back in 07 you had very few (not that few, but few) players who could farm correctly and were aggressive enough to kill vast number of newbies, then now every other player can launch 'that' attack be it efficient or not thanks to the various guides on the forum. I remember as a newbie i never read 'these' forums, it took me more than half a year to visit the forum for the first time and start reading guides and 'leet' opinions. I was only able to survive thanks to my neighbours being as nooby as i was. Now the newbies get killed a day after BP ends. They never have the chance to evolve to a good player and more than likely quit as Ankaar said.

Part of that problem relates back to the dilution of the player pool...
Less noobs, means that every noob has a target on his back, so none of them ever get a chance to learn the game.

 

[DeletedUser]

What just hit me is that Innogames has launched The West and Grepolis after the peak.
It is bound to rob many TW players.
Combine it with lack of advertisement and you get less players playing TW.
As you can see, a lot less.

Part of that problem relates back to the dilution of the player pool...
Less noobs, means that every noob has a target on his back, so none of them ever get a chance to learn the game.

I know, i just typed 3 times slower than you did. ._.

 

[Soft Stuff]

That is honestly a terrible thing for the game to do.

I used to play uc.gamestotal.com, a game in which you fought other players for planets instead of villages. It was a great game, player count growing for a while. Then players were given the option to buy special things for donation points (same as pp's)
They could buy planets, max out their system count (giving huge defensive bonuses, basically making them unbeatable), as well as a number of other things of that sort.

Giving premium players any advantage over other players is stupid in my mind. The advantages tw gives currently I think are enough - no point making it so a rich guy can waltz in and get a 12k village in half the time it takes even the most skilled player who is unable to buy their way up

On a runescape private server people donate to keep it up and running.
The owner gives several rewards.

Such as
$40 for AGS (armadyl godsword -great wep in the game)
$75 for Fire Cape + VLS (Unlosable best cape IG and best wep IG).

You get advantages over the non-donators which i dont like, id certainly quit. Paying money for a proper IG advantage (not premium) is unfair.

Premium is different as it just gives you features, no more points, ODA, troops or whatever.

Ontopic, i do agree, experienced + l33t players take out the noobier ones. Before no-one used to farm even early game, i remember that. It was like World 9 + W18, i dont remember anyone farming/sending restart mails

 

[DeletedUser]

What mut be done is not to change the game to attempt to cater to newer players. What has to happen is something that makes experienced players want to help new players

Agreed entirely.

The reality is, TW needs to do a better job of leading those players to the community, so they can find those guides, and interact with other players. They need to give recognition to those players who give back to the community (scriptors, passers of knowledge), and promote the longevity of their game, by passing their knowledge on to the masses, and to new players, so that they'll continue to retain the new players they bring in.

When you start up in this game, you get a nice little intro message with a visit the forums thing, no one ever reads it, they want to get into the game and start playing.
Then at what 15 villages you get a glimpse of free premium, but you don't even know how to use it, so you dont' really realize how the time savings, because let's be honest, you can still play the game at 50 villages without premium if you really wanted to.

The bottom rung of players needs a better experience if they want to retain that membership, and let's be honest, the experience for new players right now is shite.


Would help if the experiences many have with mods wasn't concluded with a f*ck this, I'm never playing this game again. (a sentiment shared by many that mods don't generally attempt to help.)
Truly where does a noob go to, to learn the game?

 

[DeletedUser]

As far as convincing experienced players to help newer ones, or at least spreading out good players among different tribes, there are a few things that could happen.

I already suggested more worlds in which starting location is random. Premades would be much less prevalent, or at least much harder to form unless everyone is willing to go through a huge number of restarts. Tribes would still form based on experience, but you would have a lot more semi mass recruited tribes. New players who manage a decent startup would be more likely to gain membership in a tribe with players who are actually capable of helping them. The tribe alone might be able to prevent players from attacking. Being a member of a good tribe is like having a big shield in front of you, and being a member of a newb tribe is like having a target painted on every one of your vils.

Second, there may be a way to incorporate something like a lord/vassal relationship. We had it on another game I played, and it did a relatively good job of encouraging older players to teach newer ones. Each player had an empire level determined by their population and planet count. Their vassals population and planet count went towards the lords empire level. Thus, the lord was encouraged to help his vassals grow. The lord was also able to send food and money to vassals at a better rate than a non vassal/lord interaction. If a lord successfully taught his vassals to grow quickly, he benefited through a higher empire level, allowing him to use more projects.
To vassalize someone, you had to send a vassal invite to the player, basically the same as a tribe sending an invite to a player on here. Vassals then had the option of leaving their lord for a better one whenever they wanted. To voth vassalize someone and to leave your lord, it costs honor points. A lord needed so many points to vassalize someone, and a vassal needed so many to leave their lord.

That exact situation would not be easy to replicate in TW, as there is no empire level situation, But perhaps adding in a new feature like that is just the type of gamechanger needed if the decline in players is indeed as drastic as it seems

 

[whall0625]

You are wrong on so many counts it's unreal :icon_eek:

The worlds lately are set towards noobier players. Especially on other servers.
Think about it. .net has included new settings, such as the paladin, archers, and the Church. Although they were created to include variety, you cannot deny that growing barbarians is a change for casual players.

Other servers do even more to cater for this. .uk has released a no-tribe-member-limit world with 7K barbs, and .us let's you pay premium for quicker buildings. :icon_neutral:


Also, wouldn't a recession boost TW's figures? More people without jobs = More people with tons of free time. And that's what you need for this game.

Lmao pretty sure u are the one who is wrong here........all of the new .net worlds are premade heavy and noobier plays as u call them dont stand a chance......also internet usually costs a good amount of money a month so a recession causes a lot of ppl to lose their access to the internet thus not allowing them to play....Ankaar really hit it on all levels

 

[DeletedUser]

As far as convincing experienced players to help newer ones, or at least spreading out good players among different tribes, there are a few things that could happen.

I already suggested more worlds in which starting location is random. Premades would be much less prevalent, or at least much harder to form unless everyone is willing to go through a huge number of restarts. Tribes would still form based on experience, but you would have a lot more semi mass recruited tribes. New players who manage a decent startup would be more likely to gain membership in a tribe with players who are actually capable of helping them. The tribe alone might be able to prevent players from attacking. Being a member of a good tribe is like having a big shield in front of you, and being a member of a newb tribe is like having a target painted on every one of your vils.

I do understand the reasonings for wanting to split up talent, but sometimes talent is what a game, or a sport needs, look at the Yankees... or the Miami Heat.... Sports thrive because there are stories to talk about, plus Talent isn't something that always works out, many many premades actually fail miserably, as do collections of the top players.

Plus in a game environment, many wish to play with their friends, starting out randomly alienates a large section of players.

Second, there may be a way to incorporate something like a lord/vassal relationship. We had it on another game I played, and it did a relatively good job of encouraging older players to teach newer ones. Each player had an empire level determined by their population and planet count. Their vassals population and planet count went towards the lords empire level. Thus, the lord was encouraged to help his vassals grow. The lord was also able to send food and money to vassals at a better rate than a non vassal/lord interaction. If a lord successfully taught his vassals to grow quickly, he benefited through a higher empire level, allowing him to use more projects.
To vassalize someone, you had to send a vassal invite to the player, basically the same as a tribe sending an invite to a player on here. Vassals then had the option of leaving their lord for a better one whenever they wanted. To voth vassalize someone and to leave your lord, it costs honor points. A lord needed so many points to vassalize someone, and a vassal needed so many to leave their lord.

That exact situation would not be easy to replicate in TW, as there is no empire level situation, But perhaps adding in a new feature like that is just the type of gamechanger needed if the decline in players is indeed as drastic as it seems

I have to admit that's a very interesting notion, however I'm not a fan of anything that promotes advantage through relationships (which is what that has the potential to do).

That said with achievements and everything else, you could offer up some frivilous rewards that catered to peoples ego's to encourage the vassal relationships, without giving real in game advantages.

 

[DeletedUser]

Heh this reminds me of a situation we had on one world, where we decided to mail some of the players we were farming and telling them something in these lines: 'look, I'm going to attack you every day at least 5 times, to get your resources, killing any troops you might produce in meanwhile. Why not just send me resources twice per day, I won't attack you, and you can grow in directions given by me?'. Funny enough, some actually said yes, and really sent resources for quite some time.

Maybe an option of having a vassal player, where 30% of their income would be shared with you (meaning not taking away from them, both would get resources). This would certainly give the lord incentive to help his vassal, although I'm not sure if the implementation would prove to be successful.

 

[DeletedUser]

Heh this reminds me of a situation we had on one world, where we decided to mail some of the players we were farming and telling them something in these lines: 'look, I'm going to attack you every day at least 5 times, to get your resources, killing any troops you might produce in meanwhile. Why not just send me resources twice per day, I won't attack you, and you can grow in directions given by me?'. Funny enough, some actually said yes, and really sent resources for quite some time.

Maybe an option of having a vassal player, where 30% of their income would be shared with you (meaning not taking away from them, both would get resources). This would certainly give the lord incentive to help his vassal, although I'm not sure if the implementation would prove to be successful.

So long as there was a limiting factor on how large a vassal could be, or how many you had.
On the other game I played, like I said it was based on honor points. You got more honor points if you were larger, and to vassalize a larger player required more honor points.

Say you get .1 points an hour per village you have. To vassalize someone, it might cost 10 times as many villages as they have. That way, you couldnt just vassalize huge players for huge benefits, it would cot a lot of points

 

[DeletedUser656]

Just a small note: While player numbers have been declining (for a variety of reasons) the front page number has never been accurate. tribalwars.net has never had 800k players.

 

[DeletedUser]

I do understand the reasonings for wanting to split up talent, but sometimes talent is what a game, or a sport needs, look at the Yankees... or the Miami Heat.... Sports thrive because there are stories to talk about, plus Talent isn't something that always works out, many many premades actually fail miserably, as do collections of the top players.

Plus in a game environment, many wish to play with their friends, starting out randomly alienates a large section of players.

Every other world changes then? W51 you can choose, W52 is random starting location. Seems like a simple enough solution

 

[chrisparty]

Just a small note: While player numbers have been declining (for a variety of reasons) the front page number has never been accurate. tribalwars.net has never had 800k players.

Morthy, do you know what that figure is based on? I'm curious if it's related to registered accounts, active accounts, ip's, emails, etc...

 

[DeletedUser]

Just a small note: While player numbers have been declining (for a variety of reasons) the front page number has never been accurate. tribalwars.net has never had 800k players.

But the statistics on the stats page are right right? Since you can access them via the linky and i bothered to add all worlds up i got ~750k. The point remains.

 

[DeletedUser]

Probably registered accounts. So you know the number will be high, because a lot of people register lots of times to get in the right spot on the map, as well as those who register and dont play, and then theres those accounts made only so they can have a new forum name

 

[DeletedUser]

Probably registered accounts. So you know the number will be high, because a lot of people register lots of times to get in the right spot on the map, as well as those who register and dont play, and then theres those accounts made only so they can have a new forum name

That is so not true, TW.net has roughly ~8.5 mio registered account names.
That is, if account ID's are trustable.

 

[DeletedUser]

Another thought - perhaps a world like W27, in which tribes are preregistered and players cant change tribes. I know that world was a fail, but there could be some small changes.

I am unsure if dukes could make other people dukes, replacing themselves. I also think leaders ought to be able to dismiss inactives instead of being forced to let them sit there. I dont know, maybe have a brainstorming session on W27's problems and potential fixes, because a world like that would ensure that leaders taught their members

 

[DeletedUser]

Every other world changes then? W51 you can choose, W52 is random starting location. Seems like a simple enough solution

Varying the worlds is one of the better aspects of the way TW is organized, as it allows the game to cater to different customer bases, getting some bigger variables into the mix would at the same time be a decent way to counter for the effect of players not bothering to stay on a world because they know a new one is around the corner, lets face it, different speeds and a unit/ building extra doesn't make the biggest changes in gameplay o.o

And I like the idea of a smaller world, though if too small you risk a world finishing before it's properly started, though half-sized worlds and the like might be a good way to go, throw in some form of clear goal, e.g "when a tribe reaches X% dominance the world will enter a countdown, and if the tribe still has X% dominance at the end of the countdown they win". why don't we atleast ask innogames if they can make having an end/ smaller world a feature, and try it out on a few worlds? I'm pretty sure this would be a good way for the game to gain some ground in new gamer bases

 

[DeletedUser]

That is so not true, TW.net has roughly ~8.5 mio registered account names.
That is, if account ID's are trustable.

Do account id's go up only 1 per account, or do they go up a lot more than that. On another game I play, I was id 105846, and I know that the player next up to me on the list of registered players was like 105855 or something.