?Do You Believe In God?

[DeletedUser]

Why demand the direct source? Especially for all? It is not that unreasonable to trust what he says about the content of a book. Demands for citation in forums like these should be used sparingly, for wild or rare-unheard of claims. It should not be used as a talking point. If you want a source: ask google "where in the quran does it say....".

Why not demand a source? Should we just assume everything that is said on the internet is correct? Also, why shouldn't it be used as a talking point? If we think information is suspect, should we just ignore it and assume that people never present hearsay and falsity as fact?

Picking on the semantics of examples and points is childish aswell.

Right, and the example of me picking on semantics is...

 

[DeletedUser]

i just ignored all organized religion and influences and sought his Holiness myself...if you can't or don't do that then you are not Holy in my eyes.
Also hardcore followers of the Quran believe the book was not written by man and pretty much told me a book fell from the sky?<references...a devote Muslim friend.

...

God isnt sth you feel, see or touch. ...

incorrect...you haven't found him yet then

 

[DeletedUser]

Pure and original...
And, also, you've just eliminated most of the world's population for understanding the Qu'ran. Only about 500 million total speak, or can read, Arabic.

I never said that most of the world's population don't understand a single bit of the Quran. It is these few difficult Arabic words, that can not be translated 100% which are hard to comprehend in a language other than Arabic. I gave the example of the Arabic word 'As-Samad'. There is not a single word in the English or any other language that can establish total equality with this word 'As-Samad'. Because it refers to a being which is eternal, absolute, independent while all others are dependent on it. You can't put that meaning into a single word except for in Arabic, can you? Therefore, just because I said that there are some words in the Quran which are difficult to comprehend because of little knowledge in Arabic language, it doesn't mean that the non-Arabic speaking nations are at a loss because they don't understand the Quran.

 

[DeletedUser]

i just ignored all organized religion and influences and sought his Holiness myself...if you can't or don't do that then you are not Holy in my eyes.
Also hardcore followers of the Quran believe the book was not written by man and pretty much told me a book fell from the sky?<references...a devote Muslim friend.

incorrect...you haven't found him yet then

The Quran in book-form never 'fell' from the sky as you say. Parts of the Quran were revealed by the arch-angel Gabriel to Muhammad in the cave of Hera in Makkah over a period of 23 years. Muhammad(pbuh) used to memorize what Gabriel had told him and then he used to recite to his followers who wrote parts of the Quran down(Muhammad was illiterate). After the death of the Prophet(pbuh), the Quran was arranged into a book. Whoever told you that it fell from the sky, unfortunately, does not have basic knowledge on the revelation of the Quran.

And just because Arm@ndo's way of believing in God doesn't match with yours', it doesn't mean Arm@ndo is incorrect. Unless you provide solid proof, which you clearly have not. You have only posted wrong ideas on the Quran and its revelation, giving the reference of some Muslim friend.

 

[DeletedUser]

no i thank you for clarifying that Quran thing as he wasn't well equipped with the English language to give me the precise 'definition' that you have provided. But he conveyed a feeling of "Came from the sky"
anyway.
What spectrum does Magnesium burn in? If i tell you it burns white or blue would you not go test for yourself?
I have my answers...may you all find your own.

 

[DeletedUser]

Search in this thread. "Water" should yield the first of a few.

Which themselves are hardly conclusive. If you asked any physician of the time about the human body you would have been told that its primary components were four humour each mainly constituting of water. In fact, since humans need to drink several times a day it isn#t a massive leap of logic to suggest we are mainly water.

If the Q'ran mentioned some form of self replicating double helix I may be inclined to believe it, since to know that you'd either have to be the creator yourself or have access to x-ray diffraction machine. Or an incredibly lucky guess. Just because it has various items of elaborate language which can be interpreted to keep pace with modern science doesn't mean it out dates all of modern science.

 

[DeletedUser]

When you understand a language you don't translate, you know.
.

so, genius...

How do you learn the language?
Oh thats right, you have to relate it to the language you already know and since I don't have half a lifetime to learn the Quran to the level that would be required I would be subject to the whims of whatever translations I learnt when learning the language.

 

[DeletedUser]

wild or rare-unheard of claims..

I'd say Islam constitutes a wild claim.

 

[DeletedUser]

I'd say Islam constitutes a wild claim.

Show me which part of Islam is a wild claim then. Making an allegation without providing a back-up means that you're making a wild claim yourself.

 

[DeletedUser]

Which themselves are hardly conclusive. If you asked any physician of the time about the human body you would have been told that its primary components were four humour each mainly constituting of water. In fact, since humans need to drink several times a day it isn#t a massive leap of logic to suggest we are mainly water.

If the Q'ran mentioned some form of self replicating double helix I may be inclined to believe it, since to know that you'd either have to be the creator yourself or have access to x-ray diffraction machine. Or an incredibly lucky guess. Just because it has various items of elaborate language which can be interpreted to keep pace with modern science doesn't mean it out dates all of modern science.

You are speaking about a physician 'of the time'. Who in the deserts of Arabia, where water was rarely available, 1400 years ago, could've guessed that every animal and human being is primarily made of water? And as I pointed out earlier, just because you need consume a product everyday in high quantities doesn't necessarily mean you have been created from it. For example, we can't live without taking in oxygen. Does your logic imply that we are made out of oxygen gas?

 

[DeletedUser4596]

Why not demand a source? Should we just assume everything that is said on the internet is correct? Also, why shouldn't it be used as a talking point? If we think information is suspect, should we just ignore it and assume that people never present hearsay and falsity as fact?

But does Firebow present anything even remotely questionable? Its not as if he's saying something too ludricous. Even if you want to see his validity, you'd only need to google a few of his examples to see their validity or ask for specific cites (like points 4, 7, 8 and 10). Asking for every single source is being a tool.

Right, and the example of me picking on semantics is...

Here:

Edward Lorenz would be disappointed in your probability modelling, which can only be accurate if you were rolling dice and flipping a coin each time.

Firebow was merely giving the example that if the Qu'ran's scientific knowledge was based on guesses or loose knowledge, it would be highly unlikely that every single guess would be correct. You picked on him using hard numbers to show a point. That is picking on semantics. Instead of him just saying "it is like", you picked on him saying "it is like as if".

You are speaking about a physician 'of the time'. Who in the deserts of Arabia, where water was rarely available, 1400 years ago, could've guessed that every animal and human being is primarily made of water? And as I pointed out earlier, just because you need consume a product everyday in high quantities doesn't necessarily mean you have been created from it. For example, we can't live without taking in oxygen. Does your logic imply that we are made out of oxygen gas?

You make a good point, all organisms are made of water but some, like anaerobic bacterias (which was unheard of at the time), don't need air (infact are destroyed by it). I don't believe in the Qu'ran, I like Jesus, but I can atleast appreciate a person who can knowledgably support what they believe in and not bash for no logical reason a system of beliefs.

 

[DeletedUser]

I never said that most of the world's population don't understand a single bit of the Quran. It is these few difficult Arabic words, that can not be translated 100% which are hard to comprehend in a language other than Arabic. I gave the example of the Arabic word 'As-Samad'. There is not a single word in the English or any other language that can establish total equality with this word 'As-Samad'. Because it refers to a being which is eternal, absolute, independent while all others are dependent on it. You can't put that meaning into a single word except for in Arabic, can you? Therefore, just because I said that there are some words in the Quran which are difficult to comprehend because of little knowledge in Arabic language, it doesn't mean that the non-Arabic speaking nations are at a loss because they don't understand the Quran.

God.
Get over it. Just because English is more fluid in thought than Arabic doesn't mean it is inferior for understand 'holy' script.

 

[DeletedUser]

You are speaking about a physician 'of the time'. Who in the deserts of Arabia, where water was rarely available, 1400 years ago, could've guessed that every animal and human being is primarily made of water? And as I pointed out earlier, just because you need consume a product everyday in high quantities doesn't necessarily mean you have been created from it. For example, we can't live without taking in oxygen. Does your logic imply that we are made out of oxygen gas?

It wasn't accepted at the time that 'air' actually existed. It was just assumed to be some sort of mystical ether. No mention of that either in the Q'ran. You completely ignore my point, the Greeks had pretty much accepted that most animals were made of water (see the theory of four humours, which many islamic scholars also subscribed to but is also false) and the egyptians before them. It wasn't a new idea. In fact it's pretty obvious, if you cut yourself you bleed, blood is essentially red water (in fact early translations call blood life water). The q'ran mentioning water as the main constituent of animals was not a new thing.

 

[Big Macintosh]

I will tell all of you this simply. THERE. IS. A. GOD. The God that I believe in is Christ Jesus, my Savior and Creator, and the One who will save all of humankind from a horrible death that will never end. Only if the will accept His gift of eternal life will they be saved. I can even prove to Muslims that Christ is the only One who knows the way to eternal life, not Muhammad or Allah.

If you have any questions of how I know and can prove it. I guess you can just send me a message and I will get back to you as soon as possible.

Purge

 

[DeletedUser]

If you have proof that Christ is Lord and Savior, why not post it publicly for all to see?

 

[DeletedUser4596]

The God that I believe in is Christ Jesus, my Savior and Creator, and the One who will save all of humankind from a horrible death that will never end. Only if the will accept His gift of eternal life will they be saved.

HALLELUJAH! Praise the lord almighty.

 

[xinryr]

But does Firebow present anything even remotely questionable? Its not as if he's saying something too ludricous. Even if you want to see his validity, you'd only need to google a few of his examples to see their validity or ask for specific cites (like points 4, 7, 8 and 10). Asking for every single source is being a tool.



You make a good point, all organisms are made of water but some, like anaerobic bacterias (which was unheard of at the time), don't need air (infact are destroyed by it).

Firebow was saying that the Koran had highly advanced scientific information in it. It's his job to back that up, not everyone else to go google it. If I told you that the Naked Lunch accuarately predicted the future of the extinction of four animal species six years ago, is it your job to google that? (especially since it didn't happen)

If you have proof that Christ is Lord and Savior, why not post it publicly for all to see?

Ja, I think that'd be a diservice to Jesus to not tell everyone you meet so they can all see Him.

 

[2hot2handle]

I will tell all of you this simply. THERE. IS. A. GOD. The God that I believe in is Christ Jesus, my Savior and Creator, and the One who will save all of humankind from a horrible death that will never end. Only if the will accept His gift of eternal life will they be saved. I can even prove to Muslims that Christ is the only One who knows the way to eternal life, not Muhammad or Allah.

If you have any questions of how I know and can prove it. I guess you can just send me a message and I will get back to you as soon as possible.

Purge

You cannot prove this to anybody. By your own faith only the Holy Spirit can reveal such mysteries and bring a sinner to repentance . Yes a person must accept it but they only accept it because they were preordained to do so and were called and chosen. It is not by a mans works or persuasion are they saved.

Your conviction is admirable but you alone can prove nothing to anyone . In fact the most intellectual people on the planet could debate the existence of God and come to no conclusion . For belief in God is purely through faith . All the facts and proof are debatable . There are magnificent and thought provoking details from all sides . Who's to judge the truth ? It is down to personal choice all 'evidence' is subjective.

Personally I think peoples personal choice should be respected if they have gone to the trouble of searching and seeking the truth in a unbiased way for themselves .
No-one has the definitive answer therefore people should agree to disagree .

I believe there is a God . When I look around at the world we live in it's hard to believe something without functioning intelligence and conscience originally didn't plan it or put it into motion . It's far too organized and structured to be formed from nothing imo.

<3

 

[DeletedUser]

I dont disbelieve or believe, although I must admit, I am closer to the disbelieving side. I cant imagine there is some god, some sentient being who exists above all else. Especially one so stupid as the Christian god seems to be...

 

[DeletedUser]

Show me which part of Islam is a wild claim then. Making an allegation without providing a back-up means that you're making a wild claim yourself.

the whole thing is a wild claim.

You'd admit this yourself of any other religion.