An Observation

[DeletedUser]

And yet those world hoppers create a community in competition do they not?

TW is competitive regardless of world hoppers. Though I would definitely call them competitive in regards to rank, unfortunately too many of them give up after the first major set back. I enjoy start up myself, it's a new world full of possibilities. Everyone starts off the same and it's the shortest path to a high rank, but I also enjoy trying to build something that has lasting success.

It's interesting when you consider how TW was played in the past.

Jamm was the first account I can recall that was co-played. That was in w3 and not too many people knew about it at the time. Now it's common place.

Opera noble trains were not made public until sometime after the start of w16, if I remember correctly. Before that players would line up four windows and click the attack buttons as quickly as possible.

There have been many other innovations in TW over the years, such as the use of skype, scripts (non-grease monkey), and keyboard shortcuts among other things.

World hoppers today I wouldn't say are very innovative or very original, and I would say the same thing about premades today, which are pretty much formulaic. These players are not likely to change TW in any significant way, simply because there isn't that much to improve upon at the start-up stage. Though overall I think they have helped to spread knowledge about the game. If you were to transport an average player today to the start of w1 were people hardly knew about farming, they should be able to dominate right?

...alliances made between tribes IG that are actually fostered by the very ego's that people claim to be disuniting and disrupting...

Thank you for bringing up egos, which I think people have a common misconception about. Having a big ego and being a jerk are not mutually exclusive. From what I've observed, many really good players today that I've spoken with or seen post aren't compete jerks. It seems the main culprits are those trying to prove something, or those who carry past world history into new worlds.

TW is several different games rolled into one and the differing scales of management, man and spear means that there are different groups or types of players that excel at different stages, accepted.

This is absolutely true, there is no denying. Trying to argue that there shouldn't be world hoppers is like a politician trying to tell kids they shouldn't be on the internet so much. It's not going to stop unless there are structural changes made to TW such as worlds (all worlds) that end in a reasonable length of time.

 

[DeletedUser100646]

Knowledge in the early games; TW was not the first of it's breed, though granted the knowledge was not so widespread

Premades; I think they're cute.

Competition; To want to be or beat the best in a generational game one need not only measure against what is in the world, but also it's history. The best, however, like in any sport, have down days that aren't remembered so well as their victories. People hearing of the arsenal in a couple of decades may be told about the invincibles but unlikely the drought that followed, for instance.

Jerks: Every world needs heroes as much as it needs villains.

 

[DeletedUser]

While it's true that every world needs its villians, Dag, it does also need a balance.... There is no balance, as it stands. The problem with forums is that they do suffer from a "he who shouts loudest" system of popularity; while many of the most respected posters are those who keep a cool head, by and large the most popular posters are the ones that happen to have the most friends (ok fine, truism, sue me ), and use this fact to pick on players they don't like. It's not very conducive to "good" posting, in my experience.

 

[DeletedUser]

True ^^^^ Best to keep a cool head while posting even if you get frustrated and if that happens then it's best to stay off before you make a fool of yourself.

 

[DeletedUser]

Or just to think over your post before you send it out on the world wide webs ^^
Honestly, too many people say things they regret later. Just read it over again. It really helps.

No really... It does

 

[DeletedUser98416]

how many times have u read ur last post before u posted it? ^^

 

[DeletedUser]

I've read mine a whole lot. I have also seen a lot of people that can't keep a cool head while posting which is the reason I said it would be best to stay off. If they get frustrated just be cool about it and you wont make a fool of yourself

 

[DeletedUser]

how many times have u read ur last post before u posted it? ^^

OVER 9000 TIMES!!! :icon_cool:

 

[DeletedUser4665]

While it's true that every world needs its villians, Dag, it does also need a balance.... There is no balance, as it stands. The problem with forums is that they do suffer from a "he who shouts loudest" system of popularity; while many of the most respected posters are those who keep a cool head, by and large the most popular posters are the ones that happen to have the most friends (ok fine, truism, sue me ), and use this fact to pick on players they don't like. It's not very conducive to "good" posting, in my experience.

But in a sense, isn't that what propaganda is?

 

[DeletedUser]

It's what it's become, yes, but it is not the be-all and end-all of Propaganda by any means. It is possible to say that you feel you are trashing someone completely ingame without resorting to petty insults and shouts of "noob!". In fact, you can create far more intricate and successful propaganda if you don't spend most of your posting time pissing off other posters

 

[DeletedUser]

But in a sense, isn't that what propaganda is?

propaganda is not what it used to be, if that is what you consider it to be :icon_confused::icon_sad:

 

[DeletedUser4665]

I dunno, in W5, the dominant alliance (at one point) pretty much had an iron grip on the PnP forum. It was pretty much just LFKD as the popular ones for a while and I would say that the propaganda worked quite well.

 

[DeletedUser]

I'm under the assumption that the goal of propaganda is to basically persuade people to your point of view. Obviously it is a lot more nuanced than that.

I believe the problem with the forums today is that instead of attacking the assertions, claims, or ideas put forth by the original poster they instead resort to ad hominem, which doesn't do much to sway anyone's opinion except to maybe think less of all involved.

A perfect example would be to look at any thread started by xshahzad. While some may attacking what he is saying, the majority of people just attack him. It's the lack of any critical thought or effort that is put into these posts that is most disappointing.

It's possible to be incredibly pointed when attacking what somebody is saying, and you can make them look foolish in the process. But trying to make them look foolish by calling them names is just lazy. Disproving their ideas, or what they say is much more effective.

 

[DeletedUser100696]

Or just to think over your post before you send it out on the world wide webs ^^
Honestly, too many people say things they regret later. Just read it over again. It really helps.

No really... It does

I actually read over every post I make to look for mistakes that I can fix and to check to make sure it furthers the conversation in the thread. The furthering of the conversation will come in the next paragraph.

From the sounds of the last couple of posts, it seems like this game was way more fun when it was starting out and nobody had any strategies. Maybe, to fix the "fixed strategies" people follow, a complete overhaul is needed. Revise everything. I realize it would take a lot of time but it would be worth it. Maybe they could continue tribalwars along making slight unit changes every now and then (taking an axeman out and adding something else with different attacking power, resources used to train, etc.) alongside developing a new game without any units in common where the strategies developed would NOT work. I dunno, just thinking this could be a possibility but I'm sure somebody must have suggested new units before....

 

[DeletedUser100646]

It sounds like this was tried recently with the no hauls system, tho I haven't even looked into how that worked, so can't comment. As for game changes, there have been lots, every world has vaguely different settings, paladin weapons, technology etc. The difference between the type of players tho, some people are sprint players who jump from target to short term target whilst others play the game. The short term players tend to outperform the long, but when they leave are 'flamed' by the long-term players as dropouts etc. When neither mode of play is any less valid, infact people have a tendency to remember the singlular feats rather than the long term trends, in rl as ig.

As for reading my posts, atm I'm forced to read them over and over again by my shoddy internet.

I disagree over the treatment of xshah btw, he acted like a true noob given power over other players. He and the rest of the leadership sold the tribe down the river, as happens so often before a war even starts the leadership begin looking for a way to scurry out the back door. Then try desperately to fool people into believing they either knew what they were doing or didn't know, whichever suits them better.

Games like TW are all balanced towards the defence, because O players tend to be more active, aggressive and determined, as a result those aggressive players grow a somewhat reasonable distaste for the obsequious nature in which their attacks are met and all the zeitgeist is about O-play.

/spam

 

[DeletedUser100696]

It sounds like this was tried recently with the no hauls system, tho I haven't even looked into how that worked, so can't comment. As for game changes, there have been lots, every world has vaguely different settings, paladin weapons, technology etc. The difference between the type of players tho, some people are sprint players who jump from target to short term target whilst others play the game. The short term players tend to outperform the long, but when they leave are 'flamed' by the long-term players as dropouts etc. When neither mode of play is any less valid, infact people have a tendency to remember the singlular feats rather than the long term trends, in rl as ig.

As for reading my posts, atm I'm forced to read them over and over again by my shoddy internet.

I disagree over the treatment of xshah btw, he acted like a true noob given power over other players. He and the rest of the leadership sold the tribe down the river, as happens so often before a war even starts the leadership begin looking for a way to scurry out the back door. Then try desperately to fool people into believing they either knew what they were doing or didn't know, whichever suits them better.

Games like TW are all balanced towards the defence, because O players tend to be more active, aggressive and determined, as a result those aggressive players grow a somewhat reasonable distaste for the obsequious nature in which their attacks are met and all the zeitgeist is about O-play.

/spam

Every world may have different settings but aren't they all basically the same? That is what it sounds like. I mean, from what I have gathered, there are worlds with no archers, and, consequently, no mounted archers. That takes 2 units away and archers can't influence the game that much. I read somewhere that 1 mounted archer could take out 8 normal archers. So what is the problem or the advantage of having archers? I have also read that nobles can be trained differently, coins or packages, again, what is the difference? It still costs the same, right? So it shouldn't matter.

To solve the offensive problem, perhaps make an "ultimate defender" of some sort. I know this would unbalance the game EVEN MORE but it would help those that didn't get to play very much. I dunno, just a though, perhaps a universal unit that had the same attack value as the defense value. Or a unit such as the paladin, you can only have one, where it's strength is increased based on something. Be that something time on the world, points, villages, ODA, ODD, etc. I don't know, I'm sure many of you will have reasons why these couldn't be implemented but please give reasons why so I can learn. Don't just say "No, just no."

 

[DeletedUser100646]

well, on national servers there are night bonuses too. anyway, this is not the game suggestions forum, there is alot more variation within TW than anyother browser based mmo that I can think of that doesn't murder my pc.

Regardless, there is always green grass syndrome, and the halcyon days of old, when things were so much simpler, but.. really, go back and read the forums from the beginning of the early worlds and compare it to this one, calmer if anything =p

 

[DeletedUser]

I'm under the assumption that the goal of propaganda is to basically persuade people to your point of view. Obviously it is a lot more nuanced than that.

I believe the problem with the forums today is that instead of attacking the assertions, claims, or ideas put forth by the original poster they instead resort to ad hominem, which doesn't do much to sway anyone's opinion except to maybe think less of all involved.

A perfect example would be to look at any thread started by xshahzad. While some may attacking what he is saying, the majority of people just attack him. It's the lack of any critical thought or effort that is put into these posts that is most disappointing.

It's possible to be incredibly pointed when attacking what somebody is saying, and you can make them look foolish in the process. But trying to make them look foolish by calling them names is just lazy. Disproving their ideas, or what they say is much more effective.

+1 best said... wish I was the one that said this :icon_razz:

From the sounds of the last couple of posts, it seems like this game was way more fun when it was starting out and nobody had any strategies. Maybe, to fix the "fixed strategies" people follow, a complete overhaul is needed. Revise everything. I realize it would take a lot of time but it would be worth it. Maybe they could continue tribalwars along making slight unit changes every now and then (taking an axeman out and adding something else with different attacking power, resources used to train, etc.) alongside developing a new game without any units in common where the strategies developed would NOT work. I dunno, just thinking this could be a possibility but I'm sure somebody must have suggested new units before....

The game and strategies only had major evolutions where was already stated (coplaying; opera trains; sniping), all of which were in "early" worlds prior to the 20s... not much has changed in-game since then. The only difference between when I started playing and the current worlds is the lack of in-depth thinking, common sense, debate, research, etc. that is rarely seen in the more recent worlds.

I disagree over the treatment of xshah btw, he acted like a true noob given power over other players. He and the rest of the leadership sold the tribe down the river, as happens so often before a war even starts the leadership begin looking for a way to scurry out the back door. Then try desperately to fool people into believing they either knew what they were doing or didn't know, whichever suits them better.

I disagree with your disagreement :icon_biggrin: he may have acted like a noob in the way he treated his tribe and neighbors, but that is his gameplay, his decision, his mistake... but that does not mean that he needs to be attacked personally. Attack his gameplay, attack his decision and the repercussions that occured... attacking the person because of a choice they made ingame or on pnp is where the flaming starts, and why there are so few posters on these forums... if one person makes a mistake and is dubbed a noob, then someone else could too, and so they decide to not post at all (repeat for 95% of the other 500+ members currently viewing the forums on tribalwars.net)

 

[DeletedUser]

Could not agree more with this thread, when I was a new player I saw how others were flamed to bejesus and it scared me off externals. Now that I've been playing awhile (and have a new alias :icon_biggrin I'm starting post on the forums and find them as a great source of information as to what is happening in the world.

It's not surprising that new players are becoming harder to find game, and even more difficult to find on the forums. Some people flame just to flame, they need attention and to make themselves feel good they feel that they must belittle others as much as they can. Of course being cocky, incompetent, and new does not help your case on here. But the manner in which you posted seemed to earn respect from the players here and so they decided not to flame you.

I always thought a thread like this needed to be created (but I'm too lazy), and am happy to see everyone's honest opinion on this subject. Thank you for bringing this up!

And Seven Years in Tibet is great Jeroen

 

[DeletedUser100696]

Could not agree more with this thread, when I was a new player I saw how others were flamed to bejesus and it scared me off externals. Now that I've been playing awhile (and have a new alias :icon_biggrin I'm starting post on the forums and find them as a great source of information as to what is happening in the world.

It's not surprising that new players are becoming harder to find game, and even more difficult to find on the forums. Some people flame just to flame, they need attention and to make themselves feel good they feel that they must belittle others as much as they can. Of course being cocky, incompetent, and new does not help your case on here. But the manner in which you posted seemed to earn respect from the players here and so they decided not to flame you.

I always thought a thread like this needed to be created (but I'm too lazy), and am happy to see everyone's honest opinion on this subject. Thank you for bringing this up!

And Seven Years in Tibet is great Jeroen

This seems to be getting a lot of positive replies on it and I'm actually glad I made it. I was thinking if I should make it or not for quite awhile and after re-reading about a dozen times I finally just clicked the button.

It seems that many people have been flamed, formed alias', and came back to these forums. I have had 2 people mail me in the forums about this thread and 1 in game! I was very surprised when he contacted me. Even if he is in my tribe.

So I'm pretty sure this has been covered that many new players don't post correctly/intelligently and that is why they get flamed I am assuming? With this perhaps the forums could re-direct the new members to a thread so that they could read it. I'm sure if the page automatically loaded for them they would read at least the initial post. I think it would help the newer members to learn what to say/what to do when they are thinking about making a post. If the forum creators could add links towards threads that contain flame after flame after flame, it my discourage players from posting idiotically. Just another suggestion, and I guess I just realized this still isn't the suggestion forum. I shall go there now I guess.