Open Discussion Account pushing and coplaying

Rand_Althor

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I have always hated co-playing. Never done it on any world I played. Earlier worlds it was advantageous to have a co-player, which to me always seemed unfair but it was something I could deal with. I had the option to co-play but didn't. I knew this would impact my gameplay but not majorly. Also in the earlier days I remember when new players got nobled, they would sometimes join an account in the tribe to co-play and learned a lot. So it was beneficial.

But then having 3-4 players on one account started (which allowed farming 24/7) giving a massive advantage. Then pushing accounts came about which in my mind is cheating the game.

So to me it's simple. Ban co-playing. The account sitting option is there so your account can be watched when you are away. Use that! - its there for that reason. The more accounts on a world, the better the world, I don't think anyone would dispute that. But having 3-4 players on an account drastically reduces the number of account on a world and most of the time these 3-4 players have experience at the game....
 

CodaAlFine

Still Going Strong
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Isn't coplaying illegal anyway? I thought there was a rule that you couldn't tell anyone your password...
 

valtheran88

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Banning co-playing is not feasible and has been discussed and debated for apparently at least 10 years now. I am not necessarily fond of co-playing myself though I have participated, which honestly gave me the room I needed to retire from the game. Some experiences were great others...less so.

Also co-playing is not illegal, the rule last I read is no one playing ON your world is allowed to log in to your account on the same game world. Sharing passwords in game used to be illegal would have to re read the rules to confirm if it is still a thing. Though sharing your password in general is not against the rules.
 

valtheran88

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First rule mention while seeming very straight forward actually has clarifying rules at the bottom of the page>
It is forbidden to share passwords or other login credentials with other players. There is no obligation for the support team to assist in such cases.

At the bottom of the rule page it explains how you leave 1 account on a world and take over another account on the same game world which would require sharing passwords. This gives some explanation of the flexibility of the first rule, and maybe the first rule should be brought up as a poor choice of wording that might need adjustment. I am sure last time I played the first rule was worded different not requiring an addendum a whole page away. If you follow the link in the rule below they explain that Tribalwars does not SUPPORT co playing but does have guidelines to make sure that players stay within the rules while performing such actions.
When switching from one account to another, the password of the account must be changed. The player is only allowed to switch to the new account 24 hours after this change took place. The old account must remain active on the world and the new account cannot noble it. Please review all regulations on this process as listed here, before taking any action.

I do find the reversion of the ennoblement rules to their original wording to be interesting and feel maybe they are not exactly the best laid out in the sudden stop and maybe the guidelines to the mods are looser then the wording permits. I feel that that rule should maybe allow for some public looseness and tighter instead of tight rule and loose modding if that is the case.
 

Mr Blood Frenzy

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On the Cueball account we always had 2-3 players on it *Same players*, we always started a new world with us all on the account from the start. I don't like the ideal of when players join a new world with each of their own accounts full knowing they will all merge into one account, But it happens move on is the way I look at it. What I really don't like is dummy accounts being made to help main accounts, But what can you do? Its just part of the game and over come it, Take it like it's part of the challenge of the game. Just my thoughts.
 

Txitxo

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It's a matter of respect for the GAME really.
There many ways to avoid being caught by things like this and the experienced players know this!
You can ban whatever scripts, co playing or account pushing but players always have figured out a way around this and always will.

Overall, who's really gonna read this :eek::eek::eek::eek:
 

konrax

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I have not read this whole thread, so probably gonna discuss some topics already covered, but here are my opinions in shortness:

Dont ban co-playing as a general on all worlds. I am sorry to say, but with the settings we are seeing today it is for some people a must to have others to rely on. Nevertheless its a great way to bring new players into the game and give them the whole experience, not just the first month before they get nobled.

When that is said, since we now are implementing night bonuses on some of the new world, it might be a good idea, as a try-out kind of thing, to ban co-playing on one of these worlds, since you can set a 8 hours bonus time (if I am not mistaken?). Of course it can be tried out, or some worlds can have it banned, others not, but I think that its wrong to ban it on all worlds due to all aspects: Worlds with no night bonus, bring in new players, play with friends, play even tho you have 8 hours work and need to sleep 8 hours so you really cant play alone no matter what etc....

When it comes to merges, I liked the suggestion on banning it for example the first 3 months of a world. This as well, not as a general rule on all world, but on those world where it seems fit. For me, this would be classic and HP worlds, since these are worlds players should be able to shine without all this loopholes ruing for them. I understand it will be hard to make the whole community agree on one thing, or the other, since people got different view on this, but what I am trying to suggest is having some worlds as they are now (co-players and merges allowed), and some without or restricted for the beginning of the world. Overall I think classic and HP worlds are those where these should be implemented first, as these are "special" worlds where old and new players can come all together and show who is the best. Dont give one man a sword and one a gun on such special and highly-respected worlds. Let them both fight with their bare hands and show what they are really worth.

Even though this can be discussed forever, I think the current settings on classic and HP are fun even though there are no restrictions on co-playing or merging yet. Maybe there is no need to change anything after all? Me myself like co-playing, both for the fun of playing with well-known friends, and due to how much time tw takes. Merging on the other hand - when it comes to the first months where most merges are for boosting - I am a bit more against, but I do understand some of them are legit as well.
 

Mintyfresh

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There is nothing about moderating it which is possible, incredibly easy. IP logs tell all..
You would be correct if everyone was allocated a single static permanent ip address that never changed and could never be faked.

Unfortunately that is not the case. I could probably login to my own account with about 20 different IP addresses in 20 minutes if i was so inclined.
 

Deus Vult2020

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There is nothing about moderating it which is possible, incredibly easy. IP logs tell all..
2020.... VPN's are very accessible.
Also this is extremely primitive. But 1 "master" computer online 24/7 with people connecting to it through teamviewer/chromedesktop also wouldn't show a different IP
 

Deus Vult2020

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Regarding this discussion, for what's it worth here's my opinion;

1) Banning Co playing: Please don't. I honestly can't imagine playing this game 'at a competitive' level while playing solo.... Especially on the Classic/HP world. Even with the dyanmic nightmode. At these speeds(classic/HP) being offline for 8 hours(sleeping) during an OP/(end game) war will mean you lose a lot of villa's while getting your OFF villa's wiped.
I honestly don't see how playing solo (again referring to the classic/HP worlds) is viable or even healthy for both your physical and mental health.
Incomings tend to rise into the thousands. Trains can be sent in the dozens, etc etc. There's no "waves" of attacks on these worlds like there are on normal slow worlds. It's basically continuous war. Imagine trying to combine that solo with a (healthy) sleep schedule and a fulltime job.
I see so many solo players rage quit or burn out when they're getting focused because the stress is just too much. And like I mentioned above, you can lose a massive chunk of your progress by being offline for 8 hours.

Personally I think banning co playing on Classic/HP will do more bad than good. Because sure, there might not be massive multiaccounts. However as mentioned above, so many solo players quit because of the stress/losses. Forcing everybody solo will only make this more common.
To take it one step further. Banning co playing will lead to sort of "Player bullying". With that I mean; Rather than fighting on fronts. Knowing that there's only 1 person per account. Other tribes will be more likely to focus 1 specific player. Which will make the stress/offline losses even larger => Even more likely that the player getting targeted will quit.

Banning co playing will affect all stages of the game. Both early, Mid and late game. I know everybody has their own vote. But keep in mind, this decision shouldn't be decided by only the casual gamers(no offence meant) who mainly play early to mid game, and never have to deal with the stress of late game wars or by those who don't even play classic/HP worlds.
Maybe a good compromise would be banning co-playing on casual worlds?
But allowing it on normal/classic/HP worlds.

Regarding rule 4.4 and rule 4.9: I mean, no offence to the devs/team. But these rules are kinda outdated to the point of it being a meme.
Internet use-age has changed a lot through out the years. Especially accessible "tools". Now I'm not going to name any names. And I can honestly say I never dropped to this low but.... I know several people who have used various tools(such as VPN) to basically multi account the start of the game. This with a very low banrate for them. So rather instead of "focusing" a ban against legal co playing. I think the devs should first start cracking down on the abusive multi accounting that happens.

Now back to co-playing.... I know a lot of people see this as unfair. However unfortunately not everything can be fair... backstabbing isn't fair. Farming barbs is unfair for those with a fulltime job, 50 players attacking 10 player tribe is unfair, etc etc... We don't live in an Utopia, not everything is fair. Hell life isn't fair.
So yeah, as a final note I would say;
Co-playing might be "evil" to some players. However it's a necessary evil to some of us playing on another level(the"elites" as OP mentioned)


=> Don't Ban Co-Playing
 
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AuroraMoon

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i could be wrong but:
the device people use has a unique ID that could be used - would make things more difficult
i think VPNs use a recurring pattern depending on where its hosted and with some investigating/work could be slowly cut out of the game
most companies where im from give a static IP address (so always the same), believe mobiles and laptop are more inclined to be dynamic (changes after a certain period of time without use)

other work arounds
1) replicate the account sitter system for co-playing - that way the co-player still logs on through their own account (no sharing of passwords) and its restricted to just 1 coplayer per account
2) have coplayers link their accounts together at the beginning of the world, all later mergers are forbidden - allows for more coplayers then just 1 and requires some prior planning
3) just ban it already - stop turning a blind eye to a system that is being abused due to a lack of opinion/input from inno/TW themselves, just make a decision and stick with it, either incorporate it into the game or get rid off it all together
 

DaWolf85

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the device people use has a unique ID that could be used - would make things more difficult
The MAC address, which I assume you are referring to, is not much more difficult to alter than your IP address. In some cases, it's actually easier to change.

i think VPNs use a recurring pattern depending on where its hosted and with some investigating/work could be slowly cut out of the game
Banning VPNs would be a logistical nightmare and would disenfranchise more players than you'd think. Additionally, VPNs often change their endpoints, specifically to avoid being banned in this manner, as they know they are commonly used to circumvent content restrictions or IP checks, and don't want to lose customers by getting blocked.

most companies where im from give a static IP address (so always the same), believe mobiles and laptop are more inclined to be dynamic (changes after a certain period of time without use)
That depends highly on ISP and can often vary from location to location, so it can't be relied upon. ISPs have also been known to change from static to dynamic IPs without much, or any, warning.


Any concept of banning coplaying has to be proposed with the knowledge that a great number of people will find ways to circumvent the restrictions. Like many restrictions, it would stop the more casual players, but not the most elite and devoted players.

It is, I think, a lesson in game design. You cannot legislate your way out of a problem in game design. If your players are not doing what you want them to do, instead of trying to tell them what to do, you should make what you want the optimal playstyle. In this case, that optimal playstyle is playing solo. So propose a redesign to the game that makes coplaying not just unnecessary, but objectively worse.

Can you do it? I've thought a lot about it, and I can't. That's why I don't think coplaying should be banned. It's a lazy attempt at a solution to a problem that can't be solved.
 

Txitxo

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It is nearly impossible to find illegal co-plays without an improvement in software.

Nonetheless, i believe co-playing is helpful to the game however that co-playing rules should dictate that you can't co-play someone who is already playing the same world as you.
No ones gonna spend 10hours+ to manage 3000 villas on a daily basis. People will just do illegal co-play if you do this

I've done merges myself in worlds such as pt23 or pt24 and it wasn't a positive move. First of all we got too much of a head-start using easy villages to improve our position which led to us being demotivated and either deleting account or just giving away all villages to our tribe (without even getting into the fact our enemies were better players and some quit the game because of our CHEAP MOVE- which the game now deems legal and is very common or even POPULAR).

It would be extremely easy to win a world with settings such as casual or classic by doing merging or using PPs but perhaps this is what some of the top-players who have stuck with this game long-term, would prefer to do in order to continue asserting their influence in this game.
Earlier on, merging was a very easy way to get a BAN and perhaps this should be the focus!

Finally, I have a lot of respect for people in the support team who choose to remove themselves from certain worlds and play on a different server or even BETA for example, rather than use their influence to win this game via BANS and SHARING INFORMATION which is probably the most significant issue with TW since its beginning.

I suppose someone read this :eek::eek::eek::eek:
 
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TW.PLAYER

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If there is a way to ban co playing ? Do it for the many and not the few. Fair play is needed in this game.
 

idontfight

Still Going Strong
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yes and no on the IP logs. if someone is play from the same place over and over yes the iP will be the same. But if you travel a lot for work Like over the road truck drivers for example. Your IP will not be the same.
Agreed - what about MAC tracing, could work
 

Marshyyy

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My thoughts on each of the 3 options listed...

1.) Ban Co Playing - So as someone who has played with a co players almost every single world for the last 13 years... banning it would solve a lot of problems. As of right now it would solve our "immediate" problem but would solve many others. For example: when is the last time you met a brand new tribal wars player that was co playing? you probably haven't. If all of us experienced people can hardly play the game without a co player.. how do we expect new players to be competitive without one? I am not saying I am for or against removing it, but I would definitely be open to the idea. Just something to think about.

2.) Fully support coplaying - I think this would be great ON PAPER.. but there are a lot of hurdles to overcome when implementing this. This could include account takeovers/throwing troops to sprite your co/ Disagreements. Things would get complicated and how do you settle these issues? On the subject of starting separate and then merging (if that were in the rules) - we would be creating a larger skill gap between the newbies and experienced players.. which is the opposite of what we want. :)

3.) Increase the number of mods to allow for micro investigation of the accounts in question - I don't know enough about this one to actually have any opinion on it.

On the subject of removing the rule.. That could be a really bad move. If i invite friends to come play, these are likely to be the people to actually come and stay on the game. Why? Because friends help friends learn. When someone understand the game better, they are more likely to stay. If we eliminate the ability to play with friends/family on the same world, then TW may lose out on a lot of potential players.


This is my two cents. I haven't put the thought into solutions so much, but these are just my initial thoughts to the post.

-Marshyyy
 

DaWolf85

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My thoughts on each of the 3 options listed...

1.) Ban Co Playing - So as someone who has played with a co players almost every single world for the last 13 years... banning it would solve a lot of problems. As of right now it would solve our "immediate" problem but would solve many others. For example: when is the last time you met a brand new tribal wars player that was co playing? you probably haven't. If all of us experienced people can hardly play the game without a co player.. how do we expect new players to be competitive without one? I am not saying I am for or against removing it, but I would definitely be open to the idea. Just something to think about.

2.) Fully support coplaying - I think this would be great ON PAPER.. but there are a lot of hurdles to overcome when implementing this. This could include account takeovers/throwing troops to sprite your co/ Disagreements. Things would get complicated and how do you settle these issues? On the subject of starting separate and then merging (if that were in the rules) - we would be creating a larger skill gap between the newbies and experienced players.. which is the opposite of what we want. :)
As with every other time this has been discussed, it would be lovely if either of these two options could work in practice. But I've never seen an actually effective suggestion for how to resolve all - or even most - of the issues that doing either of these things would create. Take, for example, the people above suggesting you work based off of MAC addresses, not understanding that MAC addresses are not a unique hardware identifier, or that even if they were, they can still be spoofed. As many others have said, this has been a discussion for literally over a decade. If there was a better solution to coplaying than what we have now, chances are somebody would have stumbled across it by now.

On the subject of removing the rule.. That could be a really bad move. If i invite friends to come play, these are likely to be the people to actually come and stay on the game. Why? Because friends help friends learn. When someone understand the game better, they are more likely to stay. If we eliminate the ability to play with friends/family on the same world, then TW may lose out on a lot of potential players.
As Googly said near the start of this thread, you could still have them join other worlds. Just not the same world as you. Which I think is a perfectly reasonable restriction.
 

Deus Vult2020

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My thoughts on each of the 3 options listed...
1.) Ban Co Playing - So as someone who has played with a co players almost every single world for the last 13 years... banning it would solve a lot of problems. As of right now it would solve our "immediate" problem but would solve many others. For example: when is the last time you met a brand new tribal wars player that was co playing? you probably haven't. If all of us experienced people can hardly play the game without a co player.. how do we expect new players to be competitive without one? I am not saying I am for or against removing it, but I would definitely be open to the idea. Just something to think about.
This issue might, (I'm saying might because lets be honest now, through out the years people have gotten great at bending the rules or just breaking the rules plain out and not getting caught. The examples about this are mentioned above about VPN's and such) solve some issues.... However I personally think it will cause more problems and do more harm than good.

Also, you're right about the new players. But let's be honest here.... The % of new players every world is low, I'd say even very low... The vast majority of players are regular or returning players. Now the issue with banning co playing is that the community is obviously divided over this. There is no large majority(75%+ or higher) that is either against or in favor of banning this. So by brute forcing this rule you risk alienating a larger amount of players than you actually help.
Let me explain that a bit further;
People above here have said multiple reasons why co playing is beneficial, going from less stress. More free time. Easier to combine with IRL, etc etc. Also mentioned above are the reasons why playing solo, especially late game, Is RIDICULOUSLY stressful and many players quit during wars because of it.
So imagine with co playing being banned. Straight of the bat there's already a % of players who simply won't bother playing because of all the extra time/effort required(think of ppl with families and/or a fulltime job). Then on the long term even more people will quit during wars.

So the question comes down to is;
Do you want to guarantee losing players for potentially, without certainty gaining new, "fresh" players?
To throw some (random) numbers into the example... I think the game would lose 10-15% of "elite"regular players for what....5%? 10%? increase of new players.

Also... Let's think positive for a moment. Let's say indeed this new ban/rule will bring more new people... For how long? 1 world? 5 worlds? What if they quit then? This is a very "niché" game. Not a lot of mainstream attention... So obviously there are a lot of ppl who get bored or burn out after 1 or a few worlds.

Even with extreme optimism. Say the numbers are 1:1. For every regular quitting a new player comes/stays...
Then the question is... Do you really wanna lose a true regular/veteran, somehow who has been around on this game for years, in return for.... a 'newbie'(not noob, so not meant as an insult) that might play 1 or 2 worlds and then never returns?

So I stick with my original opinion;
=> DONT ban co-playing


It's just so deeply entrenched into the players that removing this would cause more harm than it tries to fix. Removing it would be as game breaking/changing as removing sniping( remember when they tried to change that with the delayed support function? All the back and forth hate that caused?) . The community is just too divided over the subject for there to be a true "winning side" in this poll/argument. I think the fact that this discussion has been going on for decades is a testimony to this.
 
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