Back where we started?

[DeletedUser]

The thing that best defined W8 was the alliance that was formed between 4 tribes near the start of the game. It's driven most of the politics of the world since then and has left and indelible mark on partically all parts of the world. So given that the original alliance, bloc, has now ceased to be where are we now?

We are in a situation where there is an effective alliance between the top 4 tribes. Bloc had tribes it was friendly with, we all know who they were, they were allowed the thrive and prosper until they got in bloc's way, is the union any different? We won't know that for a good while, the world is a very different place from when bloc was at its peak.

So what of the new alliances tactics, are they really any different. What were the old complaints against bloc again?

They recruited their way to victory.

The union never did that, Unrepentant wasn't merged into KNT and tong po's account didn't leave N.O to join [DT]. To borrow a phrase from 1984, I have mis-remembered these things. Again there are two sides to all of these things and they will be described as fair and fully justified (I still have no idea how you justify tong po joining [DT], but I'm obviously baised).

They kept tribes as NAP until they were ready to attack.

N.O, one of the union's hanger's on, doesn't even have the decency to drop the NAP before it attacks NAP tribes. What the hell are we supposed to make of that? I don't want to get into the right's and wrong's of a refugees, that's way too complicated for this thread, which is meant to be about politics and what we have in store. F.D did at least of the decency to drop its NAP as soon as it found the situation intolerable, that is decent and respectful and I'd like to say so publicly.

So that's the end of my comparison of now with a by-gone age, that gets very dull after a while. What's going to come next? Clorox has disbanded and the world is dominated by two huge northern tribes and a nice cosy family in the South East, both have their wars established. [DT] against Nuke and Myriad, F.D/Fenix against Clorox and apparently any tribe the players join afterwards. KNT is fighting the bunnies and no doubt others as well, it does have a lot of members to keep amused.

Good game, pity the top 4 tribes have such a friendly agreement. I guess it's up the remaining tribes to turn against these dominant tribes and either beat them or separate them sufficiently they turn against each other. Not that they have any reason for that to happen currently. There's too many smaller tribes to pick off first and turning against each other would spoil their fun (anyone reminded of bloc yet?).

Question: am I the only one who finds the current status quo emerging depressing? As in the 4 largest tribes picking off smaller tribes and avoiding war with each other?

 

[DeletedUser]

John,

I don’t believe we’ve corresponded before so I don’t think we’ve been properly introduced. Regardless, pleased to make your virtual acquaintance.
I’ll try to address some of your questions and concerns from my own viewpoint as a member of DT, although certainly not speaking for my tribe or the rest of my tribemates.

I wish you’d attributed those quotes and given a fuller context for their meaning – it’s hard to tell to whom you wish a response addressed … you - or the person who wrote them? If the latter, then the person quoted may have had a different context in which they were writing, and as such, any response would be tailored to that particular argument.

Anyhow, I can’t and won’t speak for KNT –their members are perfectly capable of speaking for themselves - but I will address your “Tong Po” point. You’re thinking of it in terms of the account itself, but you’re forgetting that there is a person behind the account. That person is someone very near to DT’s heart, and it would necessarily follow that that person would want to join DT. If that person were still the original owner of the account, or a person dear to (for example) Myriad's heart, perhaps that person would have made a different choice … probably, as a matter of fact. So nothing nefarious in your example, I’m afraid.

Regarding the N.O situation -you say “I don't want to get into the right's and wrong's of a [sic] refugees …” – could that be because you know a discussion of refugee policy would invalidate your imputation of bad conduct on the part of N.O? Or is that just the "depression" talking?

Also – and just as a sidebar – with your slur of “hanger-on,” it can’t possibly be that you’re suggesting Snaus (one of the acknowledged premier players of this world) & co. are afraid to stand on their own? It could be that they simply haven’t decided what they want to do yet. Not unprecedented when wars take months and even years to resolve.

It seems the crux of your argument is that the current dominant alliance is too much like Bloc. An odd complaint coming on the heels of the dissolution of the last of the Bloc tribes; a dissolution that was accompanied by a great deal of self-hagiography and rosy recollections from both Clorox and Clorox’s allies and “hangers-on” (that would be … erm … Myriad, etc.)

The question really isn’t “Are KNT, DT et al too much like Bloc?” – I think the determinate question is “Are Myriad, Nuke, etc. anything like the old A-Bloc?” You know, the tribes that took Bloc on … and won. The tribes that would not be defeated, that forged lasting bonds of alliance and common interest in the face of overwhelming … well, you get the point.

Over the past few months, as Union’ s domination has become more and more apparent, there’s been an idea that’s gained a great deal of currency from Union’s opponents in that this world is “boring” or, as you more aptly (for you and your allies) put it … “depressing.” I assure you, it isn’t depressing when you’re winning, as your Clorox allies could have told you up until about 8 months ago (if, of course, many of them hadn’t abandoned this world after it became apparent that the barbarian noobs on the rim weren’t quite so incompetent after all; easier pickin’s on World 3x. Come to think of it, things probably aren’t so “depressing” there for the W8 losers.)

 

[spleen mage]

'tis ironic, to defeat BLOC, the alliance pretty much became what they hated most.

 

[DeletedUser]

The player in question is BulldogUK from REL who attacked N.O during the war as we would all expect and then was left is the **** due to his leader ditching him and quitting. Sad story i know but classes him as a refugee. We gave Myraid a week to summit a offer to us and nothing was made so we are attacking.

Not a hard or long story to type

 

[DeletedUser]

'tis ironic, to defeat BLOC, the alliance pretty much became what they hated most.

Again with the self-aggrandizement. Bloc was simply an obstacle - emotions didn't enter into it at all. How often have we heard from sore losers of every description these kinds of sour grapes?

For future reference, and I may get kicked out of Union for letting you know this, what we hate most is broccoli.

 

[DeletedUser]

Regarding the N.O situation -you say “I don't want to get into the right's and wrong's of a [sic] refugees …” – could that be because you know a discussion of refugee policy would invalidate your imputation of bad conduct on the part of N.O? Or is that just the "depression" talking?

Also – and just as a sidebar – with your slur of “hanger-on,” it can’t possibly be that you’re suggesting Snaus (one of the acknowledged premier players of this world) & co. are afraid to stand on their own? It could be that they simply haven’t decided what they want to do yet. Not unprecedented when wars take months and even years to resolve.

It's not intended as a slur on any particular player, I've seen full well what snaus did when he was on bloc's side and also what he did when REL reformed and started attacking N.O, that's why I'd rate snaus as one of the top players in the game. I just find it very hard to accept that you can attack a player in my tribe, knowing full well that we weren't going to dismiss the player and still pretend the tribes have an NAP.

As I say I don't want to discuss what the term "refugee" means. I don't think there's a single player in the game that doesn't meet the definition that's put forward by N.O or F.D. Does that mean that no-one can change tribes any more?

The question really isn’t “Are KNT, DT et al too much like Bloc?” – I think the determinate question is “Are Myriad, Nuke, etc. anything like the old A-Bloc?” You know, the tribes that took Bloc on … and won. The tribes that would not be defeated, that forged lasting bonds of alliance and common interest in the face of overwhelming … well, you get the point.

Indeed that was undoubtedly the main thrust of my post. There was a bit of flame bait, to make sure everybody's attention was sought, thrown in for good measure.

There's an interesting situation emerging where tribes in the middle of world now find themselves facing a dominant tribes from the edges of the world. Indeed the question is who's going to stick around and fight these wars and who's had enough. All that will be revealed in the coming weeks and months. I strongly expect that some of the tribes that have formed following the demise of Clorox will not stick around. I'm not going to try to predict which ones though.

As for ourselves, we know how we started, we know full well what our situation is. Speaking for myself, I'm finding this to be the most interesting phase of the game so far, the opportunity of working with smaller groups of people to achieve a common goal is something that I am very much looking forward to. Even if it is depressing that none of the top 4 tribes are prepared to fight each other.

I don't think this world is over. I think a new era has dawned. Let's call it the post-bloc age. This is the time when the sun shines on the union, but will the rest of the world forge the will to fight back effectively? I know what I intend to do. It doesn't involve walking away.

BTW, broccoli is good, provided you don't overcook it, otherwise it's disgusting.

 

[DeletedUser]

As I say I don't want to discuss what the term "refugee" means. I don't think there's a single player in the game that doesn't meet the definition that's put forward by N.O or F.D. Does that mean that no-one can change tribes any more?

No, what it means is that you do the same thing that all decent tribes do when recruiting a refugee. You message the tribe that claims the player as a refugee. Which is exactly what I:A did. We sent a polite message to a leader in F.D letting them know what we were doing and the situation. It was very easy and something that Myriad could easily have down with N.O and F.D, but you either thought you were above needing to message tribes over refugees, were too lazy, or just plain didn't understand a very common practice in this game that has been the pretty much same since I started playing.

 

[DeletedUser]

No, what it means is that you do the same thing that all decent tribes do when recruiting a refugee. You message the tribe that claims the player as a refugee. Which is exactly what I:A did. We sent a polite message to a leader in F.D letting them know what we were doing and the situation. It was very easy and something that Myriad could easily have down with N.O and F.D, but you either thought you were above needing to message tribes over refugees, were too lazy, or just plain didn't understand a very common practice in this game that has been the pretty much same since I started playing.

I mailed them and gave them a week to think of a solution and nothing was made but i enjoy how John is trying to make me the bad guy in all of this :icon_twisted:

Keep talking big mouth :lol:

 

[DeletedUser]

....i think greed will eventually separate the union and eventually fight each other for dominance. but thats just what i think

 

[DeletedUser]

We are far from being like the BLOC. We are all much more independent than the BLOC tribes were. We don't have our leaders running back and forth between the allied tribes, nor do we have the random mergers and splits. Our leaders don't communicate nearly as tightly as the old BLOC's leadership did. Whether or not that's a good thing isn't important, it's just a way that we're different.

 

[DeletedUser]

btw union is KNT/C DT no more no less FENIX,FD,AHH just had the same enemies

3 tribes no more no less everything else is just mutual gain for the time being

 

[DeletedUser]

I mailed them and gave them a week to think of a solution and nothing was made but i enjoy how John is trying to make me the bad guy in all of this :icon_twisted:

Keep talking big mouth :lol:

That's hardly fair. From what I've heard (I'll admit I wasn't directly in contact with N.O, but I have seen some mails) you wouldn't accept anything other than a dismissal.

As for "making you the bad guy", I think John's main problem is that you didn't even have the courtesy to drop our NAP. We appreciated having an NAP with N.O, but when you're blatantly ignoring it, the least you could do is not pretend that it's still active.

 

[Palex]

That's hardly fair. From what I've heard (I'll admit I wasn't directly in contact with N.O, but I have seen some mails) you wouldn't accept anything other than a dismissal.

As for "making you the bad guy", I think John's main problem is that you didn't even have the courtesy to drop our NAP. We appreciated having an NAP with N.O, but when you're blatantly ignoring it, the least you could do is not pretend that it's still active.

I must be honest here and say that i had a different run in with him. Then again i wasnt offered a week. But we could talk normally about it. I offered something and he would check into it. Didnt got a response back . But thats another story.

 

[DeletedUser]

looks like the forum fail means we've lost 2 pages of surprisingly good discussion, and now a topic with so much promise will probably die.

 

[13967]

Quick summary :

N.O are refugees.
Refugee term is redundant at this stage of the game so needs no more discussion.
BLOC was a monster.
ABLOC grew into a bigger monster to eat BLOC.
Who are the new monsters going to be?

 

[DeletedUser]

Quick summary :

N.O are refugees.
Refugee term is redundant at this stage of the game so needs no more discussion.

You sir, are an idiot. Contrdiction anyone? No more need for discussion because the term refugee is redundant at this stage of the game yet you label N.O (incorrectly) as a bunch of refugees. I could call a whole bunch of players in a couple of tribes a bunch of refugee's, but there is no point, because they simply do not care.

At least BLOC had some principles, these few tribes have shown a little bit lack of respect for other tribes. Shame about some of the players you got, but at least you have a prittier number next to your name

If you dont think the whole 'refugee' thing is important anymore, do not label a tribe refugees, because according to what you said in your FOLLOWING SENTENCE, is irrelevant. But i understand why, no one call myriad players refugees, but they can call entire tribes refugees. Sorry 13697, it doesnt work like that.

 

[13967]

It was a summary... You obviously didnt read the original lost two pages or understand the spirit of the posts.

 

[DeletedUser]

You sir, are an idiot. Contrdiction anyone? No more need for discussion because the term refugee is redundant at this stage of the game yet you label N.O (incorrectly) as a bunch of refugees.

He was summarizing the lost pages. I know he didn't make all of the points he mentioned, and although my memory isn't perfect, I believe he only made one of the first two points.

 

[DeletedUser]

My opinion differs from 13967. I think refugee can still apply, but I think some tribes are applying it such a way that everybody in the world could not possibly escape the label.

You can't be refugee forever. If you make a new home somewhere else, you may have started there as a refugee, but eventually you become a resident. That's how the game works, that's how real life works, realism works for me.

As for who is a refugee. To me it's someone who is under attack. It could include someone who has been under recent attack, but this is very much time dependent, after say two weeks that status must start fade and become obsolete. I'd say that after two weeks you're not a refugee, if someone was attacking you seriously, without distraction, two weeks really is the maximum delay.

I'd like to point out that I never called the whole of N.O refugees. I think that for a period of time during their recent war with REL some would qualify.

So since I never heard of Bulldog being attacked until this thread started, I'll stand by my belief that he was not a refugee and N.O never pursued any alternative to attacking a member of a NAP tribe, despite being given plenty of opportunities to do so.

 

[DeletedUser]

So since I never heard of Bulldog being attacked until this thread started

I mailed your tribe on the day he joined to inform you he was already under attack by N.O. I have a reply to this letter in return asking for a peaceful way to solve it. I then offered a week of peace to come up with a solution and not a good one was met.

Hi Paul,

I'd like to try to work something out. Bulldog had been in REL way back. I think there were quite a few people misguided by DTATDM. Can we try to come to some kind of agreement that keeps BUlldog in Myriad? DT isn't an easy enemy, so it's good to have some more firepower. I'm sure you can agree with that. Can we set aside a block of DTADTM's villages for you or something like that? If we can agree to something, I can promise you to keep him civil to you - and that'll give you a chance to concentrate on the other guys you're fighting. Let me know what you think.

That was the reply i had from your tribe

Actually - I had invited him. He had told me he didn't think it was a good idea because of the attacks. But I asked him to join. I had fought alongside him in REL when I had been in it. But, REL is truly gone now - your group beat them - DTATDM was lame to start things up and pull people into something he wasn't going to back. I'd appreciate if you could let this one go -there are plenty of other targets right now but few good players to pick up. You yourself ended up in a tribe with former enemies, so you know good can come of things like that.

That was the second reply, It states in there BulldogUK informed your tribe he was being attacked by N.O.

So get off your high horses and a apologise publicly for trying to disrespect N.O for the second time.