Forcing access to accounts for troop counts

DeletedUser

Guest
Hi everybody,

A short while ago my partner in real life was "told" by her Duke that she "must" allow access to her account for troop count verification.
She pointed out that her account is private and that she would not give him access but that he should have her villages scouted. He then insited that she allow him access and told her that she would be dismissed if she did not.

I am aware, through my own experiences, that there is a current "fashion" on all worlds for this type of thing to happen and indeed it is commonplace for tribes to insist on access to tribemembers' accounts to check on troop levels and when meeting with resistance to then "force" compliance.

Just so that everybody is aware of the rules i am publishing this Support Request question on many world forums:

Hi,
According to this rule:

"Any attempt of phishing will be strongly punished. This includes phishing for account information (like passwords) and ingame information (like troop counts). "


According to this it is against the rules to "force" access to an account by blackmail or threat or by any method?

Thanks for your help,
Blue

Bandit Jul 07,2009 02:07
Hello BlueAvenger,

Yes it is. Blackmailing for anything is illegal.

Sincerely,

Kim/Bandit of the West
Tribalwars Support

In passing: I would also point out that insisting on access to someone's account before they join a tribe is also likely to be considered breaking the rules but as yet i have not checked it out.

I hope that from now on everybody will be aware of the rule and report any such "forcing" by raising a Service Request.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
That's old stuff.

People should know that. We're in world28 not world 1.

At least for those who already have game experience...
 

donovanrules12345

Guest
Use your brain. Its called ACCOUNT SITTING. No passwords involved.
 

DeletedUser62440

Guest
Yah, and it's not really ilegal if you say "if you wanna join my tribe then I need you to give me an account sit"
 

DeletedUser

Guest
It is not against the rules for a duke to ask his or her members for an account sit to check on troops or other activities. If the member refuses to accept it that, it can be taken as a sign of something not being right and the member can be dismissed. It is not phishing and it is not per rules definition illegal. Your friend just has to "grow a pair" and set the duke as sitter if she wants to stay in the tribe, easy as that.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
It has been made clear that it is ILLEGAL to pressurise peolple into handing over their account for account sitting.

It doesn't matter who likes the rule and who doesn't..it is the rule.

"Grow a pair"?....People have a RIGHT to keep their own accounts private..it is your type of approach that the rule protects people from!
 
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donovanrules12345

Guest
Wrong. If you had read one of the replies which THE ADMINISTRATOR gave on one of the other worlds, you would know that it is in fact NOT ILLEGAL to pressurize people into account sitting.
 

DeletedUser62440

Guest
Can we get an official response to this if someone sees this to prove them wrong. And to the OP there's no reason why there should be an issue with this. Scouting doesn't work as they may not be the actual player's troops but may be support and you could mover troops around to make it look like you have more
 

donovanrules12345

Guest
Asking a player to set you as a sitter is in no way forcing them to do anything, nor is it phishing.

There is nothing wrong with a player asking you to set them as your sitter for the purposes of viewing your troop counts, nor is there anything wrong with them refusing to allow you to join their tribe (or continue to stay in their tribe) if you choose not to accept.

Something that would be considered illegal under that rule would be a player claiming to be a staff member and demanding that you set them as sitter (or give them your password). These players will often threaten to ban or delete your account if you do not comply. That is very much against the rules as you should never give your password to anyone, ever, and no staff member will never ask you for it.
Click to expand...
As quoted by SERVY


Bandit of the West said:
Let me clarify. A duke asking his members to let him sit them to check to see how they are doing is NOT blackmail. Telling someone that you will give out personal information on them or bad pics is.

It's perfectly normal for more experienced players to ask for account sitting of those not so experienced to give advice and help those members be better players. Under any circumstance should you not ever give out your personal info to anyone that you do not trust completely. Play smart.

And just so we are clear about this:

Blackmail - Extortion of money or something else of value from a person by the threat of exposing a criminal act or discreditable information.
Click to expand...


I found the above statement to be highly vague and misleading, so I feel a further look at what the support request response actually meant is highly necessary.

The OP states that the duke requested "access" to the account in question. This could imply either that the duke wanted the password to the account, or that the duke wanted to be temporarily set as an account sitter.

With respect to the rules, there is a significant difference between requesting these two types of "access". The OP's argument is correct in stating that it would be illegal for the duke to threaten a player into giving a password. The rules state that "Phishing or blackmailing players for passwords in any way is strongly forbidden". This strongly implies, if not outright states, that obtaining passwords through threats of force is illegal. This interpretation is confirmed by the support request, which states that it is illegal "to 'force' access to an account by blackmail or threat or by any method". Obtaining a password by threat is thus illegal, as it is clearly obtaining "access" to an account, and therefore is prohibited by the support request.

However, the OP seems to imply that for a duke to require "access" to an account through account sitting is also illegal, a belief the rules and support request offer scant evidence for. The OP says that "it is commonplace for tribes to insist on access to tribemembers' accounts to check on troop levels and when meeting with resistance to then "force" compliance." Since the OP says that "insisting on access to someone's account before they join a tribe is also likely to be considered breaking the rules", they undoubtedly consider this practice to be illegal. It is indeed commonplace for tribes to do this, obtaining access by means of account sitting. However, I have yet to see a tribe that checks troop levels by obtaining a password. Since this "commonplace" practice is considered by the OP to be illegal, it is clear that this message implies the practice of requiring account sitting by force is illegal.

The rules state that "Any attempt of phishing will be strongly punished. This includes phishing for account information (like passwords) and ingame information (like troop counts)." The rules only mention phishing as being an illegal method of obtaining ingame information. Since phishing is generally done through either staff impersonation or a spoofed web page, the rules in no way state that obtaining ingame information via threats would be prohibited. In fact, the rules state that "Threats and blackmailing of other players are allowed only if the context is entirely ingame". Using ingame threats to obtain ingame information, such as the troop counts an account sitting would reveal, is thus almost certainly permitted by the rules.

Unlike in the case of passwords, the rules offer no special protection against obtaining account sitting via threats, only stating that "It is not allowed to abuse account sitting. Account sitters that intentionally destroy or seriously damage an account they are sitting will be punished". Since obtaining troop counts via account sitting is hardly "intentional destruction" of the account, the rules imply no prohibition of it. The rules permit using ingame threats to obtain ingame information, and the rules give no special prohibition against doing so by demanding an account sitting, in contrast to the prohibitions they impose on demanding passwords. Thusly, the rules in no way imply that it is illegal to obtain an account sitting from a player via ingame threats.

The support request states that "it is against the rules to 'force' access to an account by blackmail or threat or by any method". As demonstrated above, this undoubtedly means it is illegal to obtain a password via threats, as the rules without clarification strongly imply the illegality of this. However, it is nowhere near clear that the illegal obtaining of "access" to an account is meant to include obtaining an account sitting. Since "access" could very well be limited in meaning to obtaining a password, and the rules the offer no evidence that obtaining an account sitting via threats is illegal, it is extraordinarily unlikely that this support request prohibits obtaining an account sitting by threat.

In summary: The rules and the above support request almost certainly demonstrate that obtaining a password to an account via threats is illegal, but utterly lack any persuasive evidence that using threats to obtain an account sitting is in any way illegal. Thus, it is almost certainly still permitted for tribes to require players to submit to account sitting.
Click to expand...
Read the very last sentence on this one.

Btw, you should be banned for posting so much spam. You've asked all this before, and now your doing it again. Get it into your thick head, asking for account sitting is not phishing and there is nothing wrong with it.
 
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DeletedUser

Guest
This guy is obviously a point whore who didn't want his tribe to know it, thus he got kicked and rimmed.
 

DeletedUser62440

Guest
Leave the point whores alone lol. Hey kdeb if you see this can you give like a semi-official to an official response as to if this is illega and stuff. If you just want to quote stuff others have said and agree, be my guest
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Sparky, its not illegal to ask your members to set you as account sitter or they'll get kicked. It's ingame threats, ingame "blackmail" and it has purely ingame results. No other programs are involved, you never get their password and it's just a 5minutes or less sitting session, just like how you do it when one of your tribes members go on holiday and gets a sitter for 1-2 weeks.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
So has this guy finally conceded to allow someone onto his account?
_______________________
Stampcoin-Sigs.gif
 

DeletedUser

Guest
It wasn't this guy it was a friend of this guy.

Gammlen put it short and simple.
 

DeletedUser62440

Guest
Stop spamming DILZ. Go away lol. Remember this from the other thread. It's true:

moderator1.jpg
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Lol stampcoin excellent pic :3

This player posted it on every world, this seems to be the only one he's replied in, shame =P
 
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