Judging Players Skill

[DeletedUser]

Our lovely world 42 moderator put the derailed thread back on topic, and I thought this deserved a new topic for open discussion - friendly discussion. These quotes are meant to give an outline to start the thread off, not flames.

do you honestly think anyone in the top 20 (or even 100) of a world could be considered a noob in the strict sense?

I'm not sure what is meant by "strict sense", but yes I do think there are a number of noobs in the top 100. Most noobs are actually in the top 20. Note I said noob, not newb.

Also what is your ultimate judge of good game play in this game? Personal stats, tribe readiness (ability to help those you're aligned with), points, etc...

I've seen players build 2 million point accounts from internal/gifted/merging of accounts. Some of those players were extremely skilful and underestimated by many who were merely basing their battle tactics on his stats alone.

how do you go about judging people on those stats (or whatever stats you feel are important) if they are not someone you interact with in the game? (again, nothing to do with you, KoABD and me, just a general question)

First of all, I judge people on their academic intellect before their game-play. Although saying that, don't judge a players game-play on their grammer or vocabulary alone, especially some one who isn't native English, but chances are, people who say "u wanz to fight meh nob!1! I wilz pwn you!" are newbs.

Aside from that, I will look at conquers. Take away the internals/barbarians, and look at their active player conquers.

- Is there a streak of 3k conquers, or 9k conquers?
- Do they take the best of a players villages then move on, are total wipe out the player?
- Do they have a high ODA (or lack thereof).

Sometimes I've seen a player get so caught up on keeping in the top 20 ODA rankings, they lose sight of what is actually important - expansion. Excessively high does not mean skill, every thing is good in moderation.

Now I'm not one to judge players on their past history neither, every one needs to learn some where, but let's just say "I was fighting wars when you were still in Tribalwar nappies", figure of speech.

[spoil]You asked if supporting some one, would give them the troops and not be returned, if I understood correctly:

http://forum.tribalwars.net/showpost.php?p=1362239&postcount=1

You also believed that sending an attack, then cancelling it, would still give you a report on their village:

http://forum.tribalwars.net/showpost.php?p=1447592&postcount=1[/spoil]

The above is written in spoilers as I do not want this thread to revolve around the spoilers content. It was a mere example of how some one can go from being a noob, to a skilful player in 16 months or less.

Whereas some players from 2006, are still noobs to this day. The main reason they are still noobs is their stubborn attitude "I played world 1, I automatically know more than you". Even though I played world 1, I admit still have much to learn and welcome the opportunity to more knowledge to better my game-play.

A lot the best strategies I've read were created post-2007/8.

I couldn't actually think of a thread title, so forgive if the content of this thread does not concern how or what to judge on a players skill level.

 

[DeletedUser]

I just wanted to comment on the top rank = not a noob comment. I agree that you can be the number 1 player in a world and still be a noob. For proof, I offer one of my favorite PnP targets from W23: kicopig, aka Barbarella. He was the subject of much speculation in W23. He was pretty much always in the top ten, and held the #1 rank for a month or two, switching back and forth with DB. We speculated that he wasn't worth the space on a tribe's roster because his ODA was barely more than his points(and when you have 4 million points, thats pretty bad), he nobled nothing but barbs and internals, and he wasn't active on the forums of his tribes(at least the one we were in together).

When it finally came down to it, his tribe declared war on my tribe. My tribe's first target was him because he was isolated from the rest of his tribe, in the middle of my tribe, and was the #1 player at the time. Within a few hours of fakes and nukes being launched he quit the game.

Clearly he was a noob. Yet he was one of the biggest players in W23 for most of the time he played that world.

 

[DeletedUser]

I just wanted to comment on the top rank = not a noob comment. I agree that you can be the number 1 player in a world and still be a noob. For proof, I offer one of my favorite PnP targets from W23: kicopig, aka Barbarella. He was the subject of much speculation in W23. He was pretty much always in the top ten, and held the #1 rank for a month or two, switching back and forth with DB. We speculated that he wasn't worth the space on a tribe's roster because his ODA was barely more than his points(and when you have 4 million points, thats pretty bad), he nobled nothing but barbs and internals, and he wasn't active on the forums of his tribes(at least the one we were in together).

When it finally came down to it, his tribe declared war on my tribe. My tribe's first target was him because he was isolated from the rest of his tribe, in the middle of my tribe, and was the #1 player at the time. Within a few hours of fakes and nukes being launched he quit the game.

Clearly he was a noob. Yet he was one of the biggest players in W23 for most of the time he played that world.

In short: Looks can deceive

 

[DeletedUser52584]

I just wanted to comment on the top rank = not a noob comment. I agree that you can be the number 1 player in a world and still be a noob. For proof, I offer one of my favorite PnP targets from W23: kicopig, aka Barbarella. He was the subject of much speculation in W23. He was pretty much always in the top ten, and held the #1 rank for a month or two, switching back and forth with DB. We speculated that he wasn't worth the space on a tribe's roster because his ODA was barely more than his points(and when you have 4 million points, thats pretty bad), he nobled nothing but barbs and internals, and he wasn't active on the forums of his tribes(at least the one we were in together).

When it finally came down to it, his tribe declared war on my tribe. My tribe's first target was him because he was isolated from the rest of his tribe, in the middle of my tribe, and was the #1 player at the time. Within a few hours of fakes and nukes being launched he quit the game.

Clearly he was a noob. Yet he was one of the biggest players in W23 for most of the time he played that world.

Yeah.... You can even have good ODA and be worthless too man. Max ODA gainage is from clearing internals, instead of stacked villages you're killing offensive troops and 1 village worth of defensive. I mean at this stage it's not like we have someone who has racked up 50+ internals but generally you can look strong but just be clearing villages you know wont dodge/stack/counter.

 

[DeletedUser]

O no here we go again :icon_wink:

 

[DeletedUser]

Yeah.... You can even have good ODA and be worthless too man. Max ODA gainage is from clearing internals, instead of stacked villages you're killing offensive troops and 1 village worth of defensive. I mean at this stage it's not like we have someone who has racked up 50+ internals but generally you can look strong but just be clearing villages you know wont dodge/stack/counter.

Even clearing of stacked villages doesn't make you a good player. It just makes you capable of sending a bunch of nukes at one village. Depending on the stage of the game, a better, more experienced player is not going to clear the stack, unless they just do it for the hell of it. They are going to look for the empty villages supporting that stack. Admittedly, as the game progresses, finding the empty villages is more and more difficult.

 

[DeletedUser52584]

but I mean, if you're a good player you have to fight with the tribe and clear stacked villages while some d-bag can sit around and barb whore/internal/clean K.

I remember in the damn EXP-3~39 skirmish Rhaul was 3rd in K49 and he was friggin useless. The rest of us (well me and vix) were fighting this "war" (and I use that term loosely, I'm sure you remember, or may even not remember it was so pathetic) and he's sitting there cleaning the K and nobling barbs and internals.

3rd player in the K
Great size
Great ODA from clearing little guys with enough points to not have morale issues
worthless player

Well, there's something to be said about a player who can carpet the area so you dont have to worry about barb-deathstars being formed but those players are fairly easy to find and he wasn't great at it.

If you're clearing stacked villages you're at least a 3 (1-5, 1 being the best 5 being the worst) because you're not a selfish D-bag and you can be co-ordinated to attack with the group. I think these players are useful.

 

[darkaniken2]

but I mean, if you're a good player you have to fight with the tribe and clear stacked villages while some d-bag can sit around and barb whore/internal/clean K.

I remember in the damn EXP-3~39 skirmish Rhaul was 3rd in K49 and he was friggin useless. The rest of us (well me and vix) were fighting this "war" (and I use that term loosely, I'm sure you remember, or may even not remember it was so pathetic) and he's sitting there cleaning the K and nobling barbs and internals.

3rd player in the K
Great size
Great ODA from clearing little guys with enough points to not have morale issues
worthless player

Well, there's something to be said about a player who can carpet the area so you dont have to worry about barb-deathstars being formed but those players are fairly easy to find and he wasn't great at it.

If you're clearing stacked villages you're at least a 3 (1-5, 1 being the best 5 being the worst) because you're not a selfish D-bag and you can be co-ordinated to attack with the group. I think these players are useful.

While we are using past references, I'd like to call in HPGs tactic. He took a lot of barbs, built up the farms and made nukes in them. 5k vills with full nukes. Had a large enough number of them, any war target he went for usually quit after a few landed.

There is no real way to judge a players skill until you attack them or they attack you.

 

[DeletedUser52584]

While we are using past references, I'd like to call in HPGs tactic. He took a lot of barbs, built up the farms and made nukes in them. 5k vills with full nukes. Had a large enough number of them, any war target he went for usually quit after a few landed.

There is no real way to judge a players skill until you attack them or they attack you.

Let me add I actually have no problem with barb whoring. If you're really good at it you can farm with your offense (since you're not losing nukes) mint and spread incredibly fast, well maybe not on a 2k barb world, but normally. If that's your playing style and you're really good at it, that's fine. But when your tribe declares "war" and the rest of your team is fighting a common enemy, I think its time you stop barb whoring and help out.

 

[DeletedUser]

@Gutter - I remember vaguely that skirmish. I think it was when I first joined the CoD family.

And, I will agree with you that players willing to throw the nukes to clear a stack can be useful. However, I have seen people boast about their ODA on other worlds when maybe they shouldn't have. On W23, one guy compared his ODA to mine and blasted me for it, yet, he gained a fair chunk of his ODA reclaiming villages he lost as the result of at least two bans(I think it might have been three, I don't remember). He claimed his OD showed he was a better player than me.

Another guy said the same thing, yet when I went through his conquer record he had about half of his villages from either barbs or internals, where I only had a third, or so.

So, while those players were useful to their tribe, I wouldn't call them really great players.

 

[DeletedUser52584]

Yeah.... You can even have good ODA and be worthless too man. Max ODA gainage is from clearing internals, instead of stacked villages you're killing offensive troops and 1 village worth of defensive. I mean at this stage it's not like we have someone who has racked up 50+ internals but generally you can look strong but just be clearing villages you know wont dodge/stack/counter.

I r the one who said max ODA gainage was from being a whore.

Still. I think activity counts for more than skill a lot of the time, my 2 cents on that. Inactivity is the great slayer of tribes and if you have active players who do their job and follow orders a great duke can make up for their lack of skill/co-ordination. Wasn't that the big RBE thing? They attacked as a single unit because Brkonja co-ordinated the attacks of the entire tribe? That way you wouldn't run into any spy issues because you're not telling everyone what's going on, you're just telling each player where to send a couple nukes. And if one player's target keeps getting off you've found your spy ^_^

 

[DeletedUser]

Agreed, activity can make up for a lack of game skill. lol

And, yes, inactivity is definitely the bane of this game.

 

[DeletedUser]

Sorry I'm late to the party... never really check this sub-board. I find nothing wrong with the original post... I think it's a good one and appreciate you taking the time to answer those questions

 

[DeletedUser]

i wpnz all you noobies you cant beat me

 

[Greg3]

Our lovely world 42 moderator put the derailed thread back on topic, and I thought this deserved a new topic for open discussion - friendly discussion. These quotes are meant to give an outline to start the thread off, not flames.



I'm not sure what is meant by "strict sense", but yes I do think there are a number of noobs in the top 100. Most noobs are actually in the top 20. Note I said noob, not newb.



I've seen players build 2 million point accounts from internal/gifted/merging of accounts. Some of those players were extremely skilful and underestimated by many who were merely basing their battle tactics on his stats alone.



First of all, I judge people on their academic intellect before their game-play. Although saying that, don't judge a players game-play on their grammer or vocabulary alone, especially some one who isn't native English, but chances are, people who say "u wanz to fight meh nob!1! I wilz pwn you!" are newbs.

Aside from that, I will look at conquers. Take away the internals/barbarians, and look at their active player conquers.

- Is there a streak of 3k conquers, or 9k conquers?
- Do they take the best of a players villages then move on, are total wipe out the player?
- Do they have a high ODA (or lack thereof).

Sometimes I've seen a player get so caught up on keeping in the top 20 ODA rankings, they lose sight of what is actually important - expansion. Excessively high does not mean skill, every thing is good in moderation.

Now I'm not one to judge players on their past history neither, every one needs to learn some where, but let's just say "I was fighting wars when you were still in Tribalwar nappies", figure of speech.

[spoil]You asked if supporting some one, would give them the troops and not be returned, if I understood correctly:

http://forum.tribalwars.net/showpost.php?p=1362239&postcount=1

You also believed that sending an attack, then cancelling it, would still give you a report on their village:

http://forum.tribalwars.net/showpost.php?p=1447592&postcount=1[/spoil]

The above is written in spoilers as I do not want this thread to revolve around the spoilers content. It was a mere example of how some one can go from being a noob, to a skilful player in 16 months or less.

Whereas some players from 2006, are still noobs to this day. The main reason they are still noobs is their stubborn attitude "I played world 1, I automatically know more than you". Even though I played world 1, I admit still have much to learn and welcome the opportunity to more knowledge to better my game-play.

A lot the best strategies I've read were created post-2007/8.

I couldn't actually think of a thread title, so forgive if the content of this thread does not concern how or what to judge on a players skill level.

What are you trying to say that one of the top player was a new to the game a year ago?
It only proves he is a good player that he learned how to play the game so fast.

 

[DeletedUser]

What are you trying to say that one of the top player was a new to the game a year ago?
It only proves he is a good player that he learned how to play the game so fast.

I answered the questions, what I was trying to say is written above. ^,^

It does prove he learned the game; fast? Maybe, that depends what scale you compare it to.

 

[Nauzhror]

I'm not sure what is meant by "strict sense", but yes I do think there are a number of noobs in the top 100. Most noobs are actually in the top 20. Note I said noob, not newb.

Two things.

1. There are absolutely noobs in the top 100, here, and in fact on every world, same goes for top 20. (Let's put it this way, I've sent 300 ms trains at people who were top 20 and had them report me thinking that my train was not legal; anyone that thinks 300 ms trains are illegal definitely fits my definition of noob.)

2. Most noobs are absolutely not in the top w20, that'd mean at most there are 39 noobs on a world, when in reality most worldsa are 99%+ comprised of noobs.

 

[DeletedUser]

[/COLOR]

Two things.

1. There are absolutely noobs in the top 100, here, and in fact on every world, same goes for top 20. (Let's put it this way, I've sent 300 ms trains at people who were top 20 and had them report me thinking that my train was not legal; anyone that thinks 300 ms trains are illegal definitely fits my definition of noob.)

2. Most noobs are absolutely not in the top w20, that'd mean at most there are 39 noobs on a world, when in reality most worldsa are 99%+ comprised of noobs.

if 99% of the world is noob... then doesn't that just mean 99% of the world is average and 1% is elite? Calling 99% of the world noob is a pretty naive statement... though I know you're just exaggerating to try and prove a point.

 

[DeletedUser]

2. Most noobs are absolutely not in the top w20, that'd mean at most there are 39 noobs on a world, when in reality most worldsa are 99%+ comprised of noobs.

I understand it's impossible to have more noobs in the top 20 due to their being a 20 space limit.

I probably should have phrased it differently, I meant if you take 20 random players ranking 21-100, and then take the ranking 1-20. There would probably be more noobs, depending on your definition of noob.

I see a noob, as some one who thinks he/she knows every thing game related, some times non-game related too, refuses new strategies, always preaching his/her way is the right way and finally, thinking points matter.

 

[killerdark31]

I understand it's impossible to have more noobs in the top 20 due to their being a 20 space limit.

I probably should have phrased it differently, I meant if you take 20 random players ranking 21-100, and then take the ranking 1-20. There would probably be more noobs, depending on your definition of noob.

I see a noob, as some one who thinks he/she knows every thing game related, some times non-game related too, refuses new strategies, always preaching his/her way is the right way and finally, thinking points matter.

I agreee