-NF- Vs. Death/Knock!/Other rim tribes

Discussion in 'World 105' started by MASTER WAN, Mar 12, 2019.

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  1. fred 4 ever

    fred 4 ever Non-stop Poster

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    Please explain all the MA nukes that heyldi was using this world then

    I have seen both first hand and second hand how HC nukes in certain areas can be extremely effective and no matter how much analysis people throw at me. I will take real results over that every day of the week.
     
  2. DJ heaven

    DJ heaven Active Member

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    He got 40% MA booster, which seemed to be a good idea to use with. But in our skype chat room, we made the calculations, and 40% MA booster is weaker than LCav with 5%, so it is not worth to use. MA is the worst type of troops in TW, worse with balanced recruit, worse with power/farmusage, worse in everything than LCav.

    With HCav is the only problem is barracks and stable are not balanced in recruitment time. If yes, and make it balanced, it is so weak, if not, it could be strong but for example you have recruitment time 15 days in barracks and 8 days in stable. But not worthy to make unbalanced recruitment, way more effective to reduce the recruitment time. The other things what others usually tell me is "I can defend with the HCavs". Well, that's a point, but when you use them on the defensive end, how can you use it on offense? If you have not so effective defenses, you will always have only axes without any cavalry. For me HCav nuke absolutely unworthy, in every way. But it is me, I always play with so hyper-optimised templates and account groups :)
     
  3. Ramazan

    Ramazan Well-Known Member

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    I was never a fan of HC nukes either..

    but concerning Mounter Archers, I usually dont use them at all, but they are usefull against Archers so you could build some nukes with them.. also when I had 40% booster, i made like 1300 mounted archers in every off village, it helped a lot, but that was the only time I actually built them

    standard version with axes and lc is the best
     
  4. fred 4 ever

    fred 4 ever Non-stop Poster

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    Just wait till I unleash the sword nukes that I have ready to go
     
  5. DJ heaven

    DJ heaven Active Member

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    Some Hungarian noob made a video about TW, and he said we have to send a spear with the nobles, because spear has a special ability and boosting the nobles :DDDD And he taught us it is worth to build level 15 wall, because it is stone wall, and have a great looking :)
     
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  6. DJ heaven

    DJ heaven Active Member

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    I see your signature contains Death right now Fred. Yesterday this was blank. Death made some nasty recruitment, to get back the leader position? What happened with SPQR?
     
  7. fred 4 ever

    fred 4 ever Non-stop Poster

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    It contains Death as I forgot to add Anger to it. It was only after I posted earlier that I noticed it was blank so changed it.

    Are you implying my recruitment was nasty? That's not very nice :(
     
  8. Incognito Ninja

    Incognito Ninja Member

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    This is just simply false.
    The efficiency of MA vs LC depends on the def build you are using it against.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Yes in this case a nuke with LC instead of MA is 32,35% more effective.
    However if we look at a full archer defense instead of the standard sp/sw

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    In this case, the nuke with MA is 860% more effective than the nuke with LC so saying mounted archer is a worse unit in every way is just plain wrong and shows how little experience you have in the game.
    The fact that there is a meta in which SP/SW defence early on is more effective due to the number of def paladins players can have at early/mid game with 30% boost to SP/SW makes archer defense only viable at stages where you can't cover the majority of the stacks with def paladins.
    A good player will adjust his builds to the opponent he's facing and will recalculate his strategy often.

    Regarding HC nukes, again the current meta has made them less effective than they used to be in earlier worlds.
    HC nukes are mostly only viable for accounts which have a decent frontline and opted to go heavily offensive.
    The tribe buffs to LC and given how common attack boosts (which boost LC but not HC) are nowadays, at least from my experience I tend to rack up more attack boosts than HC boosts, front players usually don't want to keep throwing their HC boosts on when attacking because those boosts are very valuable when getting opped, especially with a large amount of HC at the frontline.

    Playing with HC nukes at the front is indeed terrible when you're a player who can't adjust his playstyle to it.
    When playing with HC nukes, recap wars will be a lot easier for you than for your opponent as he won't be able to recap with small escorts and is obligated to invest a decent amount of offence in each recap he goes for. Good players will take advantage of this.
    HC nukes also add in a good amount of extra snipe opportunities.
    If you're one of the modern players who either stacks or loses the village, yes, HC nukes are indeed worthless to you.
     
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  9. DJ heaven

    DJ heaven Active Member

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    Ask the guys who attacked me, they can tell, how easy was to conquer from me :) But I wrote for me this is absolutely unworthy, I am playing with balanced recruitment time. For others, this could be useful, but for me not.

    Tell me, where will we see pure archer defense? I mean, in real defense situation, not in simulator. I can count them on my one hand in my 5 years with this game.
     
  10. Incognito Ninja

    Incognito Ninja Member

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    You really are clueless.

    Let's take a look at a realistic fast moving def build.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    In this scenario, MA still is stronger without any boosts involved.

    Calculations show MA being equally strong as LC attacking an army of which the defensive population consists of 22% archers, anything above that means MA are actually stronger than LC.
    This is a scenario of infantry defence, HC instead of swords will skew the numbers slightly.

    Even though MA effectively being stronger in cases where 22% of the defensive population exists of archers, there are other factors which cause MA to be a worse choice than LC.
    You listed farming but realistically with how barbled up this world is, that's of a lesser worry.

    [​IMG]

    As accounts barble a lot nowadays, a lot of wood/clay is spent on building up villages, causing excess of iron.
    Building MA instead of LC will increase the issues with excess levels of iron while increasing the shortage of clay/wood.
    MA are also incompatible with the attack boosts from paladins.
     
  11. DJ heaven

    DJ heaven Active Member

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    Yeah, when Death conquered me after weeks of trying, I started over in north with barbs, claps claps, worth to take that picture :)

    Okay, I will make you the exact calculations, and you will get all the clues you missing here, okay? :) (if I want to be so carping, this is a funny defensive template, with recruitment time 30,49 days in barracks and 11,27 days in stable :D )
     
  12. gypsyvixcent

    gypsyvixcent New Member

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    I don't say much but will on this point Genuinely thank you to NF for some fantastic epic battles. I even had a wicked battle with my Deathstar. You sincerely made this world "spicy" lol. Brilliant defending in the face of a wall of nukes coming at you. I swear my laptop jumped slightly when all them timed nukes hit. Well played and good luck in whatever world you are in.
    Gyps
     
  13. DJ heaven

    DJ heaven Active Member

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    I used my troop template making "tool" (excel xD). This is only one case, when I simply replace my LC numbers with MA. The template is recruitment-time based, so I always want to reduce the recruitment time.

    [​IMG]

    The first column is the troops names in TW like list. In the left tables, red is in barracks, yellow is in stable, green is in workshop. Darabszám means number of units, képzési idő means recruitment time in days (nap), TE is offensive power, V is defensive power, VL is defensive power againts cavalry, VÍ is defensive power againts archers, tanyahely is farm spot. Világsebesség is the speed of the server, bárderősítő is axeboost, KL erősítő is LC boost, LÍJ erősítő is MA boost. (Zászló is recruitment flag boost, this is unused now). Hány nemes means how many noblemen I want to spare space for, Épületek tanyahelye is the farmspot what buildings use, szabad tanyahely is free farmspot for troops korlátot túlléptük means if we have enough space for troops and building, this says ELFÉRSZ, which is OK, if we have not enough space, it will tell NEM FÉRSZ EL, which means we have not enough space for the troop template. Sorry, this is silly Hungarian :)

    Let's replace the LCs with MAs

    [​IMG]

    I added the gold attack booster for axes and LCs, and the available biggest MA booster, 40% (with gold axe boost). The common offense power is bigger with LCs than MAs.

    I use a balanced recruiting time with my defensive village:

    [​IMG]

    And there are the simulators, with only the offense boosts

    Againts my DV:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Againts other popular DV with spears and HCs:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    And with fully archer village:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    What you have showed is an unbalanced DV with almost triple recruitment time in barracks than in stable. Maybe stronger, but my DV is fully in 18 days, in that time you have a little bit more back than half. It is not a problem, we can get the conclusion, the more archers the defender use, the improving efficienty the MAs have. But in my experiences, not so much peoples make high number of archers (trend in Hungary, do not ask why, I don't know).

    I have to give that point to you in that case of fully archer DV, and archer-heavy DV the MA could be effective, so I have to modify my statement about "this is worse in any case", but in my opinion, with my style of game, and with most of my former enemies, it is not worthy.

    Is it okay in this case? I modified my statement to "almost in everything, MA is worse than LC"


    If anyone wants to use the calculator:

    https://data.hu/get/11858669/Sereg_kalkulator.xlsx

    If someone wants to use it, I will make an English version :)
     
  14. Dream*

    Dream* Well-Known Member

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    I think NF put up a good fight considering the size diffrent between our tribes. And they even did good when the knock tribe was still around between Death and NF, but once that disbanded and we got to focus more on NF on top of a large scale OP it went our way.

    GGs
    [​IMG]
     
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