[Official] Statement Regarding NUKE and LAW

DeletedUser

Guest
half of Omega did not want to fight our enemies. half wanted to do so.

so, sticking with Omega would mean somewhat of a civil war. why would i want my people to quarrel all day long on our forums?

our decision (mine and alien's) has been taken strictly in order to provide the right to CHOOSE to our people.

our will (mine and alien's) to keep fighting our enemies was a minor factor in taking this decision.

we formed NUKE, but not before posting on Omega's forum that whoever wishes to keep fighting our enemies is welcomed in our new tribe, whoever wishes peace is free to continue in Omega or move to another tribe, and not before appointing a new Duke for omega.

as for the people who keep bashing NUKE's leadership (me and alien) for our decision of wanting fun in a game, i am sure that none of you could ever dream of being such dedicated leaders as we are.

the difference between us and you is that at least 75 people can say that i am right. i bet none of you here who only have bad words for us, can gather 75 people to vouch for your opinion as being right, people who actually saw with their own eyes what happened with Omega and NUKE.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
So no matter how the leaders stay on top of things and keep membership informed, it's still their fault that the members refuse to participate?

no offense......
Yes.

You work with them, you give them other options, you may even consider negotiating with them as an act of desperation if you're operating from a weak position, but eventually as a leader, you need to pull the trigger, boot them from the tribe, mark them for immediate elimination, and kill them and take their stuff. Maybe not necessarily in that order, mind.

If you do nothing constructive, take resources from members who would otherwise better utilize them, *and* simply sit under our umbrella for protection, you're of no use and will be eliminated as soon as is feasible.

I'm sometimes considered a carebear/TribalHugs player and even I set those guidelines.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Yes.

You work with them, you give them other options, you may even consider negotiating with them as an act of desperation if you're operating from a weak position, but eventually as a leader, you need to pull the trigger, boot them from the tribe, mark them for immediate elimination, and kill them and take their stuff. Maybe not necessarily in that order, mind.

If you do nothing constructive, take resources from members who would otherwise better utilize them, *and* simply sit under our umbrella for protection, you're of no use and will be eliminated as soon as is feasible.

I'm sometimes considered a carebear/TribalHugs player and even I set those guidelines.

Playing devil's advocate Hopeless.

I've had to order people to be eaten, mostly inactive, but there have been actives that have been ordered to be forcibly removed from the tribe by way of the rim. For various reasons and not always for the best of reasons (best reason to in-tribe noble a player = spy, those have been the most fun and usually entrusted to the most loyal player who is the closest, bad reasons? Anything from the barons deciding that person wasn't being active enough to sniping incidents where the sniper didn't back down or someone trash talking the tribe and getting members riled).

I'm a bit more ruthless with inactive players and those who never or rarely participate in ops but have the ability. Players who are account sat by another tribe without permission from the duke(s) are immediately kicked, given 1 day to explain themselves then put on the noble list. If they're not back in that one day, oh well. That was something myself and the 3 main barons decided. Banned players had another rule. I'm not going to explain what we did with those who refused to be in any op (in-tribe or out). A couple of people might come up and say they knew cuz they were barons at the end... but by then, things had already started to get fuzzy and the rules weren't always adhered to.

When 1/3 the tribe goes inactive at once, it does present a lot of problems for leaders. Especially when some of those were being counted on for ops and had just been active the week before or 2 days before but upped and disappeared. Sat accounts when both the sitter and sittee were to be counted upon for an op presents yet another problem. But when a player deliberately attacks 2-5 days AHEAD of time on a major op, whose fault is that? Seriously now. You tell the player "in your time zone, we need you to attack at 9pm from your villages in the 470-495|320-360 ranges" and they attack 5 days early? This after you've used server time the LAST time and they confused it completely. "We want the attacks to LAND at xx:xx server time on xxx|xxx xxx|xxx and xxx|xxx villages; please use one of the tools given or your map if using premium to determine how early to send" Only just so much you can do when that person had been a regional commander who had planned attacks and later a baron. But still attacks 2 days early on one op, almost 5 days early on the next one given to him. I don't know about JP's attack plan, this one was one I knew of from awhile ago vs UNIRO then TSC.

So the above question Hopeless really was playing devil's advocate. Some things the leadership can do to help remove inactives, some to motivate, others to remove completely, but if a player has RL or boredom happen upon them without any warning to the leadership, it is difficult to move.

It's also up to the players...... if they don't want to play under someone, leave/change tribes/shout it out/say something. Personality conflicts can be worked on - others might be directed to deal with those players instead (barons or another duke).. lots of ways to resolve conflicts, but when players deliberately do something to upset the tribe (yes, i'm in for that op - and then don't show up until 2-3 days after the op goes off or attacking early) then it's not on leadership for those. When that happens a lot within 2-3 ops, it's a major problem and how do you cut 1/3 of the tribe (or more) without causing chaos/anarchy?

Members should be looking to the leaders for guidance. Really, leadership has enough to do without timing your attacks to the second. And then to find out you didn't help your tribe? But still blame leadership? Oh wow, love it! Don't take responsibility for what you do with your account and you saying "yes, I will be in that op" - there's enough responsibility to dump on the leaders and everyone else wants to blame them because you felt like going out that night (last minute) to ..... roll someone's yard or something else equally pointless and criminally destructive. Blame that on your tribe leaders too. It's their fault you were so bored with the game that you had to find something in real life to destroy. Nice. (yes, one member was arrested one night for egging and rolling someone's yard - did some other major vandalism as well - enough for a felony charge - and yes, he was supposed to be in an op that night but had just disappeared - couple days later went yellow and he got assigned out not long after that) - must have been the leader's fault.
 

pyronixcore

Guest
You situation is a unique one, and very different from the run of the mill problems of most tribes. But it was still your responsibility. Not solely, but the responsibility of DAVOEs collective leadership.

Unfortunately for you, ATVG had decided to take much of eastern DAVOE to [DT]. It all fell apart after that.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
You situation is a unique one, and very different from the run of the mill problems of most tribes. But it was still your responsibility. Not solely, but the responsibility of DAVOEs collective leadership.

Unfortunately for you, ATVG had decided to take much of eastern DAVOE to [DT]. It all fell apart after that.

Actually he had given his account over to Mr. Rezz for quite some time. Then one day he logged in and hit the delete button.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
As usual, tl;dr.

It's also the leader's job to know who is competent in their tribe and who isn't. If your tribe is too big for that, delegate. Someone has to know who can be trusted down the line. Don't give important assignments or targeting information to useless players. It doesn't matter if the player in question had been a regional commander or even a baron. Maybe they never should have been, maybe they clearly lost a step and needed to be pushed out.

A good leader does not blame his followers. He may, occasionally, complain about the tools he has to work with, privately to other leaders. But in public it is his duty to take responsibility for everything that happens.

A bad leader gets fragged.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
You situation is a unique one, and very different from the run of the mill problems of most tribes. But it was still your responsibility. Not solely, but the responsibility of DAVOEs collective leadership.

Unfortunately for you, ATVG had decided to take much of eastern DAVOE to [DT]. It all fell apart after that.

ATVG left long before people really realized he'd left.

He was a good player, but a maverick. He attacked Myriad without operational knowledge. He had his own ideas for running the tribe, but refused to take a real position within the tribe. He dismissed orders given to him and went off on his own. He was talked to several times, but was still a damned good player. He was one of the barons that agreed with us joining the BLOC as he saw KNT and [DT] as weak. He didn't agree with us attacking [DT] at any time as the BLOC (sirvictor) demanded we do. We didn't declare on [DT] nor did we remove the diplomacy with them (until we had no choice).

We tried to get him to go west, it didn't work.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
As usual, tl;dr.

It's also the leader's job to know who is competent in their tribe and who isn't. If your tribe is too big for that, delegate. Someone has to know who can be trusted down the line. Don't give important assignments or targeting information to useless players. It doesn't matter if the player in question had been a regional commander or even a baron. Maybe they never should have been, maybe they clearly lost a step and needed to be pushed out.

A good leader does not blame his followers. He may, occasionally, complain about the tools he has to work with, privately to other leaders. But in public it is his duty to take responsibility for everything that happens.

A bad leader gets fragged.

One of the most trusted barons in DAVOE's history betrayed all of DAVOE by going to [DT]. Some remember what happened, some know he had been doing what he could to privately undermine DAVOE for awhile.

I took primary responsibility for what happened. My own personal life prevented me from keeping a closer watch on what was going on. I'd had full trust in my barons to be able to do what was needed, unfortunately I didn't realize one was backstabbing and a few of the others were just entirely too weak -- either to do their jobs or to stand up to the traitor. I put that on my own head, regardless of personal tragedies. I'm still dealing with that one and others on top of it... those who know me in this world and others know why I don't want a leadership position in any form. I know right now I simply cannot do what needs to be done. I'd be more hardline and less decisive at the same time. Contradictory I know, but what can ya do.
 
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DeletedUser

Guest
As usual, tl;dr.

It's also the leader's job to know who is competent in their tribe and who isn't. If your tribe is too big for that, delegate. Someone has to know who can be trusted down the line. Don't give important assignments or targeting information to useless players. It doesn't matter if the player in question had been a regional commander or even a baron. Maybe they never should have been, maybe they clearly lost a step and needed to be pushed out.

A good leader does not blame his followers. He may, occasionally, complain about the tools he has to work with, privately to other leaders. But in public it is his duty to take responsibility for everything that happens.

A bad leader gets fragged.

Ok, so by going by your own words here, DTA and JP failed at being leaders, not even passing muster as "good" leaders as they've both complained about their followers (ie, tools). Sure, they both took some responsibility, but so did I at the time and still now. So if you're lumping people together.... I want to know where YOUR tribe is and why it's not #1 tribe and taking names? You're not sitting there without an account on the world in your own name are you? Passing judgement on others? Oh my.... hard to take someone seriously when they're not even there.


oh, and "tl;dr"???
 

DeletedUser

Guest
One of the most trusted barons in DAVOE's history betrayed all of DAVOE by going to [DT]. Some remember what happened, some know he had been doing what he could to privately undermine DAVOE for awhile.
Deal with it. Stuff happens, it's what you do afterwards that matters. We had a coalition of barons attempt to disband the tribe and schism everyone. We reformed stronger than ever and eliminated the traitors.

Ok, so by going by your own words here, DTA and JP failed at being leaders, not even passing muster as "good" leaders as they've both complained about their followers (ie, tools). Sure, they both took some responsibility, but so did I at the time and still now. So if you're lumping people together.... I want to know where YOUR tribe is and why it's not #1 tribe and taking names? You're not sitting there without an account on the world in your own name are you? Passing judgement on others? Oh my.... hard to take someone seriously when they're not even there.


oh, and "tl;dr"???
The difference is that they've at least made public mention of the fact that there was a failure of leadership on their part and have made at least some attempts to take ownership of that. You, OTOH, have attempted to spin your legacy even harder than JP ever has and perhaps ever will. (Well, I wouldn't place a bet on that one.)

I'm one of KNT's former Dukes, originating from the K43 strongpoint. I'm perhaps one of the worst targets for that kind of insinuation seeing as how I was present on the world for all of what you've mentioned and much more besides that.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
I, for one, like the way it turned out with DAVOE.

I've made a bunch of new friends.


Complain all you want about the way DAVOE was run, all in all, if it were run any differently, [DT] would be a less enriched tribe. There are many highly valued former DAVOE players in [DT] and the only complaints I hear from [DT] should be along the lines of "Why the hell didn't we do this sooner?"
 

DeletedUser

Guest
I agree.

Had there been less unrest in DAVOE when we fought them, the fight would've been harder too. Though, I think we would've enjoyed a harder fight.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
I think everyone would have enjoyed a harder fight :)

I have a lot of respect for CSB. I have a good deal of respect for many in [DT].

Ask any of the real barons from DAVOE or ask MrRezz.... the choice when it came up about joining BLOC was what it would do to [DT] and our friendship with [DT]. I never once made it a secret about me talking to Uritel. Many of our discussions weren't about TW specifically but more of our philosophies when it concerned TW. Nothing given about our friends, from either side.

I know this is a game, but I shed tears over the issue of [DT]. therandule, bluejay, hhind - just three of the players from the old [DT] before many in DAVOE defected - that I had a huge amount of respect for. Still do in many regards.

Good luck :)
 
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