The noble that lived!

Discussion in 'World 105' started by grave maker, Jan 25, 2019.

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  1. grave maker

    grave maker Non-stop Poster

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    Had an interesting report sent to me the other week:

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    How in the world did this noble live? Maybe I'm out of the loop on noble surival calcs, so I ended up reaching out to TW staff:

    [​IMG]

    And of course, they were correct--if you sim the troops and buffs, the noble will survive. When I questioned about what the calculation was that caused the noble to survive, support responded again:

    [​IMG]

    So I took the suggestion to heart!

    Why was the only unit that mattered in the calculation the axes? I tried some sims myself, to see if I could imitate anything similar. What's interesting is that it seems like axes have the closest relationship to nobles through all my calcs. For example:
    [​IMG]
    Despite over 3/4 of the LC dying, because half the axe lived, the noble survives. If you add 10 LC to the defender, 5 axe still survive, but the noble dies in this sim--so there is some invisible threshold that exists. Likely, the losses in actually would like 5.49 axes dying (noble lives) vs 5.51 axes dying (noble dies)

    You can also see in this example how important axes are to the noble surviving:
    [​IMG]
    Despite losing only 17 LC, we lose over 50% of our axe, so the noble dies.

    One more example, an even more ironic one:
    [​IMG]
    So here our invisible axe threshold went above 50% of the axes, so our noble died despite losing only a fraction of our LC and entire escort in general.

    So I wanted to try one last calc, which brought some REALLY odd results.
    [​IMG]
    Now this is a really, really weird one, and one that I feel like shouldn't happen. Over 90% of our escort survives, without any axe, and yet our noble dies. How is this even possible?

    If you switch the sword out with spear, you get a more expected result:
    [​IMG]
    Over half our LC dies, but the noble lives. But why? If over half our axe die, we lose a noble, but not LC?

    So what is happening here? If there are no axe present, I think that the TW noble calculation places invisible axes in the calculation with no attack power. If over 50% of the axe were to die in the calculation, the noble dies.

    Here you can see an example of this with HC:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    So you can see why the noble dies in the first calculation despite HC being the only unit. Half the axe die if they were in the escort.

    If we replay the sim above the HC one with the LC and spear with axe in it:
    [​IMG]
    We lose below 50% of our axe, so the noble lives. We would need to increase our spear amounts until we lose 50% of our axe before the noble dies.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    So there you have it. Forgive me if this is common knowledge.. but I thought this was very interesting. I guess the secret to sniping trains is to use swords and HC!
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2019
    Strong Hand, Pias, pritch1991 and 7 others like this.
  2. IAmAbel

    IAmAbel Non-stop Poster

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    It is a bit stranger to calculate this on worlds with archers since tw is going to calculate infantry and cavalry different. This is what happens on a "normal" world.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I could go on for hours about this but lets keep it short. Basically, the noble is considered an infantry unit, and as long as half your total infantry power dies then the noble will die as well.

    This making the spear snipe rather useless in archer worlds, which is common knowledge. The archer is also an good unit to snipe with because it has the same defensive stats against infantry as the sword has:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    In both cases the noble will die.

    If we go deeper down the rabbit hole, this makes the spear quite weak in frontline, it is almost useless to snipe with anyway and the archer/sword or HC/archer will be strong enough against attacks (but takes forever to build).
    Basically, this is not any bugg or so, this is just tws kinda wack way to handle nobles on archer worlds^^
     
  3. grave maker

    grave maker Non-stop Poster

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    That is actually really interesting! I never knew that. Im curious why such the huge difference in calculation between world types? Seems odd to almost completely discount a unit type in the calculation, instead of balancing around it in other ways
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2019
  4. sidd 271

    sidd 271 Contributing Poster

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    Thanks for sharing. Never realized this
     
  5. xillah

    xillah Still Going Strong

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    Been playing this game for over a decade and didn't realise this, cheers Grave.
     
  6. EmoFish

    EmoFish Active Member

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    Only noobs that plays on .net?
     
  7. The Barkeep

    The Barkeep New Member

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    So what you're saying is to always send minimal axe with escorts o_O

    What an odd thing for tw to allow when 90% of the escort dies, but 50% of axe remains so the nobles all like yikes that was a close one. If I was the opposing player I'd prob be a bit irate.
     
  8. grave maker

    grave maker Non-stop Poster

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    Whether or not you have axe with the escort, the survival of your noble will depend on the 'theortical' axes/infantry surviving or not. So I guess realistically you want more LC in your escorts to offset swords/HC in snipes.
     
  9. hardwood

    hardwood New Member

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    I would be interested to know if there is a relationship with swords as well as far as the last Noble attack being support.

    It's clear from these simulations that we should not be using LC as a escort...
    but what would make the best defensive escort for the final attack?