Zain bigger than ...

DeletedUser67005

Guest
Alright. I'll stack it as long as you promise pnp support.
I'll help you kick these losers who came to W18 to cause an argument out of W18. I'm still opposed to the UA. :p

Don't bother stacking my 116 point villa. I never log in anymore, really. Not that I knew you were joking or anything.
 

Plarinsucks

Guest
Its alright. With everyone's moral on you it only needs 1000 spears and its good for a few hundred nukes.
 

KomradeDarmok

Guest
Wow, it's great to see so many familiar names here. It seems like so long ago that I had to relinquish the game to go traipsing around the world. Great to see those who stayed with it, like Plarinsucks, who began as the lowly tribe asshat and eventually went on to great things.

Good run, World 18.
 

Plarinsucks

Guest
Komrade. Its extremely nice to see you here. You should e-mail me. I'll send you a message on the forums. Hopefully you check this again.
 

Dark Huntress

Guest
Noone (that I recall) on the Apoc/BA side ever suggested that, individually, our better players were better than those of MM et al. That claim appears to have been one that has been consistently argued by MM et al (yourself, included, it would seem).

No, we in Apoc (and BA) have simply claimed that we had/have a game winning strategy. We advocated it very early on when those who opposed us in principle argued that it would never work and that we were ultimately doomed.

If things had gone a little differently (specifically Apoc had broken up and BA had sided with MM) then, yes, the outcome may have been different. That said I don't think that outcome would have been one in which MM would have won as it now appears that MM was in meltdown long ago.

The leaders of Apoc and BA recognised the importance of maintaining family integrity and their alliances and worked hard to ensure that the "little differently" scenario didn't happen (despite the best efforts of Apoc-W's leadership).

That's the story of W18. Debate...
We did not need BA to switch sides in order to win. -MM- still had a great and active team when we merged with INF so you can imagine how effective that team was at our peak. Even with most our core players gone, we were still leading in war stats as at xmas. All we needed was the hordes of D that were hidden in the SE corner to be effectively distributed and we would have been able to block your advance in the core as well as keep tearing through the south. We would have flanked you and gotten your dead accounts that way - you would have been surrounded. Even =V= was able to impact your family and keep your hands full. I realised that with just half a tribe of actives, you guys got rattled because you didn't want to have to log on and defend and mark and move troops and do ops on an active. If the active gave you grief, you would just move on until you found a dead account. The fact that we were used to dealing with thousands of incomings for months and months at a time (and were happy about it, lol) would have been our big advantage against you once our core actives ultimately went up against yours.

The east had too many big personalities, egos and little insecurities and not enough trust between naps and allies. They were willing to sacrifice the tribe for their own delusions. As an example, even before MIM, INF tried to sell us out to Aggression 3 times, lol. We had been a strong and loyal ally for a long time although we could have very easily annihalated them when our initial group left for -MM-, just like we did to AoO. As a final effort to effectively take you out we formed MIM but once MIM fractured, due to the sheer stupidity and selfishness of 3 council members (none were original -MM- incidentally), you were then able to focus on the few actives that were left and wear them out 1 at a time.

A big portion of your tribe came from KH and so had a sound relationship already. Your recruits just wanted to be able to keep their account 'alive' and be able to log onto their accounts at leisure. The advantage to you was that you could send D and nukes from these accounts with no threat from us because they were so far away. You maintained your family and kept your focus on finishing this world asap for almost your entire time on W18 and that way you got your desired result.
 

Andrew Done

Guest
MsBella, this is a fiction and one that is based on a lot of assumptions.

We did not need BA to switch sides in order to win. -MM- still had a great and active team when we merged with INF so you can imagine how effective that team was at our peak.
Yes you did, but our core team was both more capable and more active. You will recall that we dominated the top 20 at that time.
Even with most our core players gone, we were still leading in war stats as at xmas.
I think you out conquered Apoc ONE month. Hardly a display of latent greatness.
All we needed was the hordes of D that were hidden in the SE corner to be effectively distributed and we would have been able to block your advance in the core as well as keep tearing through the south. We would have flanked you and gotten your dead accounts that way - you would have been surrounded.
It is funny that you have always criticised our tactic of identifying and prioritising your inactives yet you are now advocating the same strategy. Stacking inactives may have worked to slow us down but stacking such players usually just delays the inevitable, and wastes def.

Incidenatally an number of your players, e.g. GenTed, tried to flank us and landed behind our lines. As you will recall they were dealt with. That's not to say that the strategy is a bad one but your piecemeal implementation was not sufficient to trouble us significantly.
Even =V= was able to impact your family and keep your hands full. I realised that with just half a tribe of actives, you guys got rattled because you didn't want to have to log on and defend and mark and move troops and do ops on an active.
LOL! Hands full? You seem to forget that we were at war with everyone else in the world at the time, including the reformed TF. V barely registered in the greater scheme of things.
If the active gave you grief, you would just move on until you found a dead account.
Wait a minute? Didn't you advocate this tactic a couple of sentences ago? You seem conflicted!
The fact that we were used to dealing with thousands of incomings for months and months at a time (and were happy about it, lol) would have been our big advantage against you once our core actives ultimately went up against yours.
It is true that your players had more experience of 1000s of incomings than our back line. The same isn't true of our core team. So... if you are comparing core players vs core players then we had the advantage both in terms of player size and number of players.
The east had too many big personalities, egos and little insecurities and not enough trust between naps and allies. They were willing to sacrifice the tribe for their own delusions. As an example, even before MIM, INF tried to sell us out to Aggression 3 times, lol. We had been a strong and loyal ally for a long time although we could have very easily annihalated them when our initial group left for -MM-, just like we did to AoO. As a final effort to effectively take you out we formed MIM but once MIM fractured, due to the sheer stupidity and selfishness of 3 council members (none were original -MM- incidentally), you were then able to focus on the few actives that were left and wear them out 1 at a time.
I can't argue with this. If MIM hadn't been simply a marriage of convenience you may have presented a challenge. As is was it was a marriage of desperation.
A big portion of your tribe came from KH and so had a sound relationship already.
I'm not sure this is true. Certainly a few of the key players came from KH but the majority of the leadership, let alone the tribe as a whole, didn't.
Your recruits just wanted to be able to keep their account 'alive' and be able to log onto their accounts at leisure. The advantage to you was that you could send D and nukes from these accounts with no threat from us because they were so far away.
These points have been debated at length in the rest of the forum so I won't both responding.
You maintained your family and kept your focus on finishing this world asap for almost your entire time on W18 and that way you got your desired result.
Absolutely! :-D
 

Dark Huntress

Guest
You misunderstood 2 of my points. The first one was NOT stacking inactives. My preference was not to sit these accounts but to actually noble out key locations and then let the rest of the account go barb. However I was in the minority on this.

I was talking about stacking players in K55 and K46 that were still active and skilled and would be able to block your advance as well as noble further into your turf instead of letting them be gang banged by the best of the best that you had in Apoc ie Zain, Zurtle, Rashelle, Davidemah, Orsio, etc. Your game play is looking for weak spots so reinforcing these players would have eliminated those. Unfortunately, the D was either sent to some screaming noob or sat gathering dust in the corner. Maddawg was the first to send any from that crew but by then I had been asking for over a month and it was too little too late.

Secondly, when I say flanking, I don't mean a bunch of deathstars. I'm not a big fan of deathstars and have very rarely seen one used effectively. I was referring to what we were already doing in the south, and that was totally obliterating and taking over K after K. We were taking villages like a plague of locusts, lol. Your very best players were in the core. This would have forced you to fight on 2 fronts instead of having your backs secure. But as you know, they decided that taking me out was a higher priority on this world :)

By the way Andrew, I am just having a cordial discussion. Truth be told, I have a lot of fond memories from W18. It was pretty much my first online game and it was a very interesting experience, to say the least. In a way, it's even kinda sad that it is officially closing :(
 

Andrew Done

Guest
At least we agree on the use of death stars. Great when the enemy is lacking a firm policy on them or coordination to actually kill them.

Zain and I debated long about how many nukes should we should spend on taking one out. In the end we agreed that the cost of guarding a death star was always greater than the cost to kill one - so we simply elected to throw as many nukes in as it took. After all, nukes rebuild in a couple of weeks. Garrisoned D on the other hand is essentially out of the game for good.

Of course forward operating bases can be quite effective when the enemy is lacking coordination as happened with my FOB in K87. Of course, as you said elsewhere, VST was probably a lesser force than once it had been which allowed me to rapidly spread from that initial landing.

The flanking maneouvre you guys invested in was certainly successful. I'm not sure whether you made it as far as Cal- and rattlesnake8. If you did I am surprised you made as much ground as you did given that quite a few players I respect respected them in turn (although my experience of Cal-, as an attacker rather then defender, didn't cover her in glory). It was certainly the right tactic and your push would have demanded our (mine, Wolfys and various others from the region) full attention sooner or later. Of course the re-establishment of TF by Cal- and rattlesnake8 would have killed that line of advance even before the east went to mush.

I also have many fond memories and, despite starting as a noob, I believe I have achieved everything I can in TW with the exception of being the #1 player. I got to #2 and will finish at #3 as a Duke of the winning tribe(s). Let's face it, with machines like Davidemah and Zain at large, #3 was always the best I could hope for (not least because I haven't farmed in 2 years)! I certainly can't imagine starting a new world with the sole intention of being the #1 player. That's a big investment in time and, to be honest, it's about time I re-introduced myself to my wife and son! :-D
 

Wolfhunt1

Guest
That's a big investment in time and, to be honest, it's about time I re-introduced myself to my wife and son! :-D
That's a big NEGATIVE Tango. You will be reassigned to another world. Orders are on the way.

Command out!
 

Zurtle

Guest
Noone (that I recall) on the Apoc/BA side ever suggested that, individually, our better players were better than those of MM et al. That claim appears to have been one that has been consistently argued by MM et al (yourself, included, it would seem).
I think you just did right here in the below quote. which happens to be in the very same thread only 1 page later. given that evidence, I don't think it's a huge stretch to imagine you or another have said it before.

Yes you did, but our core team was both more capable and more active. You will recall that we dominated the top 20 at that time.
 

Dark Huntress

Guest
You're right about the death stars. The funny thing is most people don't even know how to use them. I had 3 deathstars in my cluster but I didn't bother nuking them because I had a limited number of nukes and didn't want to waste them, but as soon as one of them tried to expand (Alf hucker), he lost the whole cluster within a few hours, hehe.

In regards to the south, I personally made it with my team to K74, K75, K86, K85 and was racing for villages with the likes of rattlesnake, lol. Most of us came down from K58 and K59 as well as K67 so not too bad :) The other southern team made it as far as K93 I think it was. The progress was very rapid - our best competition down there was the team that included Rattle, Cal, rtrhead, willmn. I don't know who the other south team encountered apart from Zurtle sitting Ptagi, hehe.

Wolfhunt was targetted early on in the advance, especially in K75, but he would get me to sort it every time. If we weren't friendly at the time, you may have been a target earlier in the piece.

I can't imagine playing a never ending world again but would be interested in a world that had a short expiry date. I'd like to put everything I have learned into practice and perhaps even play with some of you that were on the other side. Anyways, all the best with your re-acquaintance :)

Yes you did, but our core team was both more capable and more active. You will recall that we dominated the top 20 at that time.
thought Apoc have never said that they had better players then those in -MM- :p
 

PeterPaine

Guest
We did not need BA to switch sides in order to win. -MM- still had a great and active team when we merged with INF so you can imagine how effective that team was at our peak.
I don't recall this being the tone of the mails at the time at all. When we "split" from the UA, BA leaders were getting mails from all non-UA tribal leaders (and some self-appointed ones) that the only way to defeat Apoc would be to join forces against Apoc.
We declined these overtures, obviously. There's no way to know what would've been the outcome of such a move, but I can reasonably say that there would have been a lot of carnage in the Apoc & BA backlines - like the north and northwest. This would likely have provided an opening for tribes to hit Apoc in other areas. But it also would've put BA in the middle of the battlefield, with wars on all fronts. Bad idea. Especially because the other tribes and/or leaders had proven to be untrustworthy.
All this is to say - there really was never a doubt that BA would ever turn on Apoc ... although I admit we DID have some fun with some of the other tribal leaders pretending we were entertaining the thought! Hee hee hee.



We would have flanked you and gotten your dead accounts that way - you would have been surrounded. Even =V= was able to impact your family and keep your hands full.
This sounds familiar. It's sort of the plan BA & Apoc had for the north. :)
Wolf, Andy, Zain, even Zurtle knew of the plans. We'd march north along the rim and sweep down the eastern coast to get to the core of the ~S~ tribe (and its allies). We landed colonization assaults - with deathstars, actually - and became entrenched in the k9-19 areas. GoC soon collapsed, and the attempted mergers helped undermine the enemy from within. A lot of bad blood existed out in the east, which helped us, no doubt.
 

Dark Huntress

Guest
I honestly don't remember you guys doing anything outside of cannibalising your dead accounts. I'm not sure if you did this in recent months after we deleted?
 

Wolfhunt1

Guest
Wolfhunt was targetted early on in the advance, especially in K75, but he would get me to sort it every time. If we weren't friendly at the time, you may have been a target earlier in the piece.
This was a two way street.