Newsletter #8 - Premium change - 2010-03-30

[DeletedUser]

Innogames have constantly introduced new features over the past years

I only play on an old world where many of these features are not used. Can I get a discount?

I agree with Tarcalion, this is just going to punish the players who buy the smaller packages which are usually, although not all the time, the less well off members.

After reading all the posts in this thread some things stand out:
1. Do all the mods subscribe to a hivemind newsletter? Sometimes it seems like all the replies come from the same author but just posted by different mods.
2. That single source of replies is not doing the best of jobs. A change in tact may do him/her/it some good.

There seems to be a tendency from mods to look down on users. This does seem to be the standard across all Innogames games.
Instead of shoving "game improvements" down the throats of the users in a way that (attempts to) makes them look stupid and/or ungrateful, a different more tactful approach could be taken. A "softer" post giving the same information will have more people accepting it as a reason than the "hard" posts people have been getting from mods.

3. People complain too much.

Yes, users, that is you. Sure, sometimes there is grounds to complain, but some of the whining in this thread just goes too far. Just as the mod's "softer" replies are likely to be better accepted so too will well set out replies from users. Not that it is in any form likely to have any effect on these changes though - Innogames do after all have a reputation for being a bit hardheaded - but a good reply still has a better chance than a whine.

4. Innogames is a business (well we knew this before) and hey make business decisions (surprise)

Innogames is a business. They are there to make money. That is what businesses do. So yes, it is about the money. But to make money you have to have something to offer. This is something that Innogames is doing too. They provide us with a game. A fun game that they keep on improving/fixing.
They are well within their rights to charge money for their services, and to raise the prices. They are after all a business that is in existence to make money. And as long as they provide a service/product that is worth buying, they will continue to make money.

Lets have a proper look at the prices:

We have 1.99 GBP for 14 days (0.1421 per day) and after we will have 3.99 GBP for 28 days (1.995 GBP for 14 days) = 0.1425 per day
We have 2.90 GBP for 30 days (0.09666' per day) and after we will have 3.99 GBP for 28 days (0.1425 per day)
We have 19.00 GBP for 300 days (0.06333' per day) and after we will have 19.99 GBP for 210 days (0.0952 per day)
Top end package will give us 49.99 GBP for 700 days (0.0714 per day)

It seems that is you have been buying fortnightly premium your price will remain just about the same.

Monthly purchases will have a 47.5% increase

Long term will have a 50% increase and with the top end package it will only be 12.8% increase.

Percentage wise it looks like a very steep raise in price, but I do not think it is too much.

My suggestion would be to adjust:
200 points to 3.49 GBP (from 3.99)
19.99 GBP to 1800 or 2000 points (from 1500)

 

[DeletedUser]

That is my payment too, as a student. However, by my calculations (in GBP) i pay much less than a 100% increase...though i know morthy stated that SMS rates will vary. I guess we will have to wait for the system to be implemented to see how exactly it will operate, though i can understand why you are irritated. unfortunatly, the rates associated with sms are increased due to network charges and operating costs. Innogames does not earn anymore from it. All i can suggest is making another payment option available to yourself.

how is paying 40€ now and 96€ with the new system not a 100% increase?
Well i'm already looking into the other payment options... *sigh*

 

[theFBIman]

i am sure that many won't pay for premium on these terms. they should really think on the numbers first.
and yes, i think that those 600 points 5000 points and so on are just to make people compute harder so they don't see the change so easily.
To pay twice as much while you aim for more players, it's a nonse. hope inno will see when people will stop paying. i am one of those.

 

[robi zmaj]

Innogames get prices up and that is normal thing to do, they didnt raise prices over few years as I can remember.

It was little confusing that 100 points is 14 days then divide by ten then multiply but we will get used to it like on every new setting Innogames comes up with.

 

[DeletedUser]

Ah, so you have problems with the practicality of payment. well, i don't know what to suggest other than to buy 2 lots of 2 weeks at a time...this may be inconvenient, but i doubt Innogames did this just to inconvenience you, as that would obviously have a negative impact upon them. However, i am just a forum moderator and don't know anymore upon that particular subject.

You said " i fail to see how people would find it easier to buy every month rather than every 3 months", I gave you one reason why. I'm sure everyone that only buys a month at a time has their reasons, but these are mine.

Just trying to educate you as to how for some people it is easier to buy one month at a time, since you fail to see.

 

[DeletedUser]

Lets compare, a simple one this time.

GTX480. Churns out for instance 120fps on Far Cry 2. While a single 4890 maybe throws out what, some 50fps? 4890's when they were just out cost about 200,- this while the GTX480 currently will run me 450,- to the bare minimum.

200/50 = 4
450/120 = 3.75 or to put it otherwise, 100 fps (double performance) would cost 375 (less than double the price)

GTX480 is more bang for your buck/quid/euro.

Want a simpler example? take a look at the hard drive costs and how price per GB scales.

Want a complete example? PowerEdge R410 server, base configuration (one Xeon E5520, 12GB memory, 146GB drive SAS) , roughly $4.5k. One more processor, double memory, double drive space (yeah, I almost doubled performance), will run you down another $1.5k ... far than double. Even with dual X5570s it comes at $8.5k total, still less than double the initial price for a lot more than double the horse power.

Hope it is clear now.

 

[DeletedUser]

No one said it didn't.

Examples please of other BBG's that support this feature and raised prices as a result since you know of them.

It is plain that Inno isn't at all concerned about the players on the lower end of the spectrum. An increase of over 100% makes that rather clear. I hope the increase in revenue from those who can afford this increase doesn't fall short of the lost revenue you'll get from attrition of those who can't.

Y'see, i'm confused with the 100% calculations. as a standard premium paying player, the calculations show between 30%-40%. if you are calculating sms, do not blame that on Innogames - that is due to network charges, take that up with your operator.

Other BBG's? take your pic. find one on facebook, for example as many of the popular ones are connected to it, that has not has a price increase in the past year and does not operate on 'the more you pay, the better you are'.

 

[emicarn]

Use the 100 point = 14 days option. That's 800 points for 4 months. (rounded off) Assuming you wish to use the 600 points = $14.99 purchasing option, your costs will be around $20 for 4 months, $5.00 a month. That's a 40% increase, not 107%, and the 600 pointer package isn't even the cheapest.



I'll try to get you a solid answer for this.

I stand corrected, I made a miscalculation. The 600 point package isn't the cheapest, but if you can't afford the outlay for the cheapest, doesn't really matter does it?

Even so, a 40% increase is pretty steep in any business.

 

[bloodz2]

please elaborate in more detail? I'm only a newbie that's been playing for about 18 months?

but I'm extremely interested to know more about this...

Well tw starts its life in german and gets changed into any language you need it for. The basic game itself you can download from quite a efw places on the net and play on a private server.

When you download the game all the premuim features are there to use for free and its an option that the 'owners' of the game can either decide to allow or bar people from and have it unlocked when people have paid for it and its at this point you can also choose what speed you want the world set at player numbers etc etc

 

[DeletedUser]

No, i believe that was to offer you more with the premium account as people were understandably irritated that they payed for premium service, yet still recieved adverts.

so you raise the price for premium and remove advertisements. So that's just like making people buy the ad-free mode, isn't it?

 

[kalkoenvet]

Even so, a 40% increase is pretty steep in any business.

Not if you consider the fact that Innogames hasn't raised their premium prices for years.

 

[emicarn]

Y'see, i'm confused with the 100% calculations. as a standard premium paying player, the calculations show between 30%-40%. if you are calculating sms, do not blame that on Innogames - that is due to network charges, take that up with your operator.

Other BBG's? take your pic. find one on facebook, for example as many of the popular ones are connected to it, that has not has a price increase in the past year and does not operate on 'the more you pay, the better you are'.

I stated a moment ago I made a misstep in my calculation. 40% is the increase from my level which is still steep.

No one is saying you shouldn't charge for premium, they are saying that this level of increase is a bit steep and rather silly in this economy.

 

[DeletedUser]

its funny how you cried about the VAT RISES in 2008

INNOGAMES should pay the extra TAX, we (the UK public...not sure about other countries) should pay 17.5% on an item/product or service.

it was 1 of the main reasons why i quit w15... i had 130+ villages... i was 15 at the time, how could i have afford the premium to mint my coins?

aprill 7th is the same thing,
they are too keep us, the customers interested, windows does not charge for their updates for their operating systems...

anybody can make an app for an iphone.

making a christmass tree in our WAR villages at christmass time is utterly a waste, you can not even attack other players...
if you were having fun then, you would not see the tree, if you were in, there's no Christmas spirit in you.. so do include that in your Fat Cat prices?



ok, but where's our freedom of choice?
maybe i want the ads? i don't want them... but your going to charge me for making the decision ive already made? its just not on.

when i get to 60ooo points, i'm going to need to buy a premium, but if the price is out of my budget (which it will be) im not buying...

you've made your money, and we all know the admins get a wage, so stop trying to rob us. yes you've upgraded a few things.
I have a 10MB a second broadband with a brand new laptop and it lags like crazy, imagine a 2MB broadband players with a older laptop/desktop computer. they might as well quit... well, that is if they can press ok without the session expiring.

Innogames should pay the extra taxes? that's like saying when the VAT increases on cigarettes or oil, the companies should pay. erm, no.

Anyone can make an app for iphone, yes. can you re-code the tribalwars interface and design an new UI for a phone, for free? if so, your services are in great demand.

You want the ads? i know you're using at an example, but are you seriously suggesting people out there might want ads? this was a feature that was introduced to improve the user experience, no ads. It wasn't the reason the prices went up, just another feature.

Erm, the 5 admins do have part-time jobs yes. Will their wages increase because of this? no.

 

[DeletedUser]

The mobile version is just an example of a new feature.

The point is that Innogames has launched a lot of new features over the last few years, while the price for premium points always stayed the same.

And to answer your second question: yes, all those game improvements are costly.

I am playing W7. Most of these improvements don't apply to older worlds.
Would you consider a discount fair for people redeeming pp in these worlds?

 

[DeletedUser]

so you raise the price for premium and remove advertisements. So that's just like making people buy the ad-free mode, isn't it?

Once again, it is not the reason for the price increase, it is another feature of the premium account service.

 

[DeletedUser]

erm...i still suffer the cost of premium, its just on a different server. it is completely relevant that i play on tribalwars.no and pay, and that this change will affect me just as much as you. Comparing it to Grepolis or The West is wrong, as they operate on different payment systems and will not be affected by this change.

Of course West and Grepolis have different premium models and payment schemes....that wasnt the point of my observation.

My point is this: If you moderate on a Grepolis world or forum, you get free premium to use for gaming there. If you moderate a West world or forum, you get free premium. And, if you moderate a Tribal Wars world or forum, you get free premium.....whether you actually choose to not play or not take advantage of the gifted premium is another matter entirely.

But the flip side to this is just as simple....If you are a moderator on TW.net, your premium can be used on any and all worlds you choose to play on (limited by the exclusion of you being unable to play on the worlds you moderate). But you cant take your free premium (nor can anybody take their bought premium) from .net over to .co.uk or to .rus. or .dr, etc.....just as (different pricing /usage schemes aside) you also cannot take the free premium over to one of the other games. For those separate servers, yes you need to pay...but if you also moderated there (be it another TW server or another IG game) as well as on TW.net, InnoGames would provide free premium as well.

 

[DeletedUser]

I only play on an old world where many of these features are not used. Can I get a discount?



After reading all the posts in this thread some things stand out:
1. Do all the mods subscribe to a hivemind newsletter? Sometimes it seems like all the replies come from the same author but just posted by different mods.
2. That single source of replies is not doing the best of jobs. A change in tact may do him/her/it some good.

There seems to be a tendency from mods to look down on users. This does seem to be the standard across all Innogames games.
Instead of shoving "game improvements" down the throats of the users in a way that (attempts to) makes them look stupid and/or ungrateful, a different more tactful approach could be taken. A "softer" post giving the same information will have more people accepting it as a reason than the "hard" posts people have been getting from mods.

3. People complain too much.

Yes, users, that is you. Sure, sometimes there is grounds to complain, but some of the whining in this thread just goes too far. Just as the mod's "softer" replies are likely to be better accepted so too will well set out replies from users. Not that it is in any form likely to have any effect on these changes though - Innogames do after all have a reputation for being a bit hardheaded - but a good reply still has a better chance than a whine.

4. Innogames is a business (well we knew this before) and hey make business decisions (surprise)

Innogames is a business. They are there to make money. That is what businesses do. So yes, it is about the money. But to make money you have to have something to offer. This is something that Innogames is doing too. They provide us with a game. A fun game that they keep on improving/fixing.
They are well within their rights to charge money for their services, and to raise the prices. They are after all a business that is in existence to make money. And as long as they provide a service/product that is worth buying, they will continue to make money.

Lets have a proper look at the prices:

We have 1.99 GBP for 14 days (0.1421 per day) and after we will have 3.99 GBP for 28 days (1.995 GBP for 14 days) = 0.1425 per day
We have 2.90 GBP for 30 days (0.09666' per day) and after we will have 3.99 GBP for 28 days (0.1425 per day)
We have 19.00 GBP for 300 days (0.06333' per day) and after we will have 19.99 GBP for 210 days (0.0952 per day)
Top end package will give us 49.99 GBP for 700 days (0.0714 per day)

It seems that is you have been buying fortnightly premium your price will remain just about the same.

Monthly purchases will have a 47.5% increase

Long term will have a 50% increase and with the top end package it will only be 12.8% increase.

Percentage wise it looks like a very steep raise in price, but I do not think it is too much.

My suggestion would be to adjust:
200 points to 3.49 GBP (from 3.99)
19.99 GBP to 1800 or 2000 points (from 1500)

I play world 2. You're saying the political map isn't available for use, you don't use the new graphics interface, your tribe does not use the new claiming system and you do not use the new Map?

I understand what you are saying though. However, a compromise with prices is not up for discussion, though that would be preferable to most.

 

[CodaAlFine]

Well tw starts its life in german and gets changed into any language you need it for. The basic game itself you can download from quite a efw places on the net and play on a private server.

When you download the game all the premuim features are there to use for free and its an option that the 'owners' of the game can either decide to allow or bar people from and have it unlocked when people have paid for it and its at this point you can also choose what speed you want the world set at player numbers etc etc

Well I don't mind paying a nominal fee to be able to play the game on a worldwide server with full features...but this price rise does make me think twice...especially given that it seems more an more unlikely that it's actually costing them that much more to host the game

 

[DeletedUser]

I would just like to point something out. Whoever sent the ingame message to people cannot copy/paste worth a shit. The 200 points and the 600 points are the same price. Yet when you come to the forum to discuss it is posted properly. You should take the increase in prices and teach people how to use simple commands on a keyboard (Ctrl+c) for Copy and (Ctrl+V) to paste it.

http://en43.tribalwars.net/page.php?page=inbound&screen=info_player&id=-1 today at 10:33
Dear players,

Starting April 7th, we will change the prices for our premium accounts.

Here is a short overview of the new prices.

60 premium points - USD $2.99 - 1.99 GBP
200 premium points - USD $5.99 - 3.99 GBP
600 premium points - USD $5.99 - 9.99 GBP
1500 premium points - USD $29.49 - 19.99 GBP
5000 premium points - USD $73.99 - 49.99 GBP

For 30 Premium Points, you get 3 days of premium account, for 100 points, you get 14 days. In practice, that means that you get 30 weeks of Premium Account for 19.99 €. The no-ads mode will be included in our new premium account!

Your existing points will be recalculated by multiplying them by 46 and rounding them up to the next number dividable by ten. That sounds complicated, but by this we make sure that no one loses any value for their bought points – that was very important for us! In fact, some will even gain one day.

More details and a discussion thread can be found on our forums.

Have fun,
Your Tribal Wars team.

 

[DeletedUser]

Well I don't mind paying a nominal fee to be able to play the game on a worldwide server with full features...but this price rise does make me think twice...especially given that it seems more an more unlikely that it's actually costing them that much more to host the game

same here. The prices staid the same until now... so why are they suddenly rising? Going bankrupt all of a sudden? Think not.