Alright...Our BD archive has me saying I'd worked out that BH and DECIDE worked together on their war plan for a month, which I'm fairly sure was true. Of course, our BD forum also had TheShearJoy in it, who BD had recruited from EreVos
wayyyyy long ago. It also had Parmenion. So there's no chance of us having had any privacy.
As to Phoenx...This is just me quoting information I find useful whenever I find it, so it will
not be in any sensible order, necessarily. Here's hoping spoiler tags work, or this'll be a longgg post.
EDIT: Spoiler tags do not work, so below is a whole bunch of stuff. Sorry. I've decided to move my biggest amount of reflection up here.....
I mean, that kind of sums it up, I guess. This litany of information leads me to believe that this was a long-time-coming sort of plan on BH's behalf, and a really good - if dishonest - one. In a game like Tribalwars, its pretty much exactly what you need to do. Its not just about who the better fighters are, its about who the better deceivers are. And I guess I took too much of what BH told me at face value. So, kudos to them, it looks like that strategy
might win them a world! It'd make them the best manipulators out there! And that's...Honestly pretty good.
So, you can be the judge of this information. Its just what I've found that's relevant, that I think really encapsulates THE's mindset on dealing with BH. We weren't thrilled, and we'd made that clear, but we only planned for war when we really thought we had no other choice. Does that mean BH would have attacked us even if we'd rolled over on their merger? I don't know; only BH leadership can answer that! But looking at the eventual conflict they've arrived at with Phoenx, I'm willing to guess that its a possibility. And I'm willing to bet that Phoenx is going to have some fun, one way or another.
After all, I knew going into this war that THE might lose. I knew how not 100% we were, no matter what I had to say out in public. Our time (and it was a year and a half at #1, if I recall correctly? I could be wrong) was over, our core players had already left, our key ally had already fallen into disrepair and conquest-from-within (TSJ was a leader. He was EreVos all along), and our defeat in-game was pretty much reflective of the fact that we'd already come to the conclusion that we didn't really want to keep it up.
So we fought, we kept our pride by not letting anyone boss us around, and we went down in the process.
Hey, I'm happy with that.
rand4747 on 13.04.2010 at 12:40Thanks Quote Edit Delete
what we need is THE on a front line with them.
BD Forum archive said:
Tomas Torquemada (deleted) on 04.04.2010 at 22:52Thanks Quote Edit
Hi
just a thought, once the dead players in hammer and BH are mopped up do THE feel they should be:
a) finishing off DECIDE quickly to prepare for BH
b) able to fight both - read art of war if you think this is an option
c) no worries BH are are friends - anyone thinking this one find a quiet cornet and hit yourself until your survival instincts return.
d) do what they did, and merge the really good players from Decide and quickly eat rest.
just some thoughts
TT
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JPohlman (deleted) on 05.04.2010 at 00:56Thanks Quote Edit Delete
At present we're simply attempting to discuss this with BH. Our immediate concern is our coming operation against DECIDE.
kristian lee butcher (deleted) on 05.04.2010 at 01:28Thanks Quote Edit Delete
this may of been bh's game plan all along they have been pushing grduly south in k21/k22 for a month or so now, still nice close targets to be had should the need arise
Tomas Torquemada (deleted) on 05.04.2010 at 10:49Thanks Quote Edit Delete
It's possible.
It's not I don't trust BH, Just looking out for our Ally and been keeping an eye on them and its not an if its a WHEN they declare
TT
JPohlman (deleted) on 05.04.2010 at 21:58Thanks Quote Edit Delete
Tomas Torquemada wrote:
...and its not an if its a WHEN they declare
TT
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(me)
Tomas,
Might I ask what you mean by this? Are you saying that you have confirmation that BH plans to declare on us?
Lost Wanderer (deleted) on 05.04.2010 at 22:00Thanks Quote Edit Delete
It would be their best move, if they could take us.
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JPohlman (deleted) on 05.04.2010 at 23:54Thanks Quote Edit Delete
Well, this isn't just a discussion. This isn't "what if BH and Hammer merge," This is "BH just recruited four K's worth of THE's enemies." There's no difficulty in imagining that this is a serious issue for us.
As I said, however, at present our priority is DECIDE. We have an operation coming against them soon. Our second priority is restructuring slightly, and ensuring that we are as prepared as possible to move into the future. Our third priority is resolving this issue without further incident.
I can say, however, that it should come as no surprise that we are not happy about this decision, one I know for a fact that not all of BH's council was even asked about.
As far as "s**t stirring," however, I don't want to hear theories about why someone might do something. While its appreciated, I'm more than capable of being paranoid on my own. I am, by nature, a conspiracy seeker - mainly because everywhere I look, I have found it. In my own hometown, our mayor is a one man fucking conspiracy theory bastard. So, yes, I know all about it.
However, I don't just want "Ooo they're gonna do this!" sort of statements. I want facts. If you know something for a fact, or have even heard a rumor with a definable source, that is a valid contribution. Otherwise, what you are doing is stirring shit - and with your hands. But, facts? Evidence? Support? I've heard plenty of theories, claims, and rumors, but if you have solid truth to shed on this issue than I am more than happy to hear it.
Ismoke (deleted) on 05.04.2010 at 23:57Thanks Quote Edit Delete
amen to that
That was all part of the same conversation thread, "BH/Hammer Merge."
This...I actually like. This really lets me get a look at what my mental process was as BH and THE attempted to negotiate a settlement to the Hammer recruits. And Bookie (Petra) was right, sadly, but that doesn't mean I was wrong...
What's really interesting is apparently we planned to declare in April, which is about when Phoenx nuking became an issue. Which is, also, a good solid month+ before BH declared. Which makes me wonder why, which is why I'm re-reading!
BH Negotiation Thread said:
JPohlman (deleted) on 12.04.2010 at 04:22Thanks Quote Edit Delete
But, Bookie...Dude...If we let them get away with this without challenging them on it, you do understand that our "dominance" is at an end, right?
Weakened accounts can be overcome - AK_Iceman and I are already working on solving at least some of this as an issue. If we have to, we can admit Gardez and give her an account. Same with other DECIDE players.
Remember, our primary criteria for deciding if we can take BH is going to be the DECIDE op. If it goes terribly, there's no point in fighting BH because we've already lost. If it goes amazingly, there's no reason not to fight BH, because we'll at the very least have good odds of winning.
This is a game, and in a game you have a higher tolerance of risk than you do in the real world. I understand your concern, I understand that we're not 100%, and I understand that we could very well lose. But we've all already agreed that we would rather lose fighting than admit defeat without even launching one fucking nuke.
And if BH does this? They will do something else. We can agree to territory...And they'll violate it. Anything to get us to either compromise further or fight them from an already-weakened position. And when we fight back, they'll still cry "We tried to work with them!" We saw this with CBTF, with Kraken, and with Boot. We saw this on W8 with KNT and [DT] and Uniro. We even saw this on W1 with TW, mores the truth.
Most of all, however, I have seen the "we need to clean this up" plan play out. What is the #1 complaint we've heard from the people out west? "All we have to do are noble inactives and grays, and launch nukes to a front we can't really fight on." If we declare that our next three months will be spent in-tribing, I guarantee you that we will never be done. We will always have another inactive. We will always be behind schedule. And we will, much sooner than if we fought BH, be relegated as "that tribe that thought it was tough but ran from a real fight."
Do we run, or do we fight? That's the question, and we answered that weeks ago.
Petra (deleted) on 12.04.2010 at 04:38Thanks Quote Edit Delete
Ok then fight it is. Im just concerned about the activity of the tribe and was just trying to get us somewhat into shape. I guess i am just over planning things. But as far as the account that need owners. When do we expect new owners? JOHn has a little over a month before it is deleted by the staff. As far as the rest Im unsure. I just would like to know what I will be planning into ops instead of waiting till the last minute.
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JPohlman (deleted) on 17.04.2010 at 07:50Thanks Quote Edit Delete
Current Timetable
With nearly 2000 nukes already available, I feel confident in launching an operation unless I receive opposition to this idea.
Next 48 hours
- Continue negotiations with BH: They are already aware that we consider Hammer players as Hammer, and that Hammer is our next target. Settlement remains possible.
- Resolve DECIDE surrender if at all possible.
- Obtain full nuke/noble pledges.
- Attempt to fill accounts. (Echao, Myia contained; Darkwolf in need)
49 hours-4/5 days, I.E. Apr 21-22 ST
- Continue filling accounts.
- Assimilate DECIDE players, add their troop readiness in.
- Formally plan Operation: Liquid Metal. (Assign attackers to BH/Hammer targets). Note: Not informing anyone yet.
Six Days, I.E. Apr 23 ST
- Broadcast attack targets.
- Broadcast landing date
- Formally declare war on BH.
Day Seven, APR 24 ST
- Launch first attacks against BH targets.
Let me know if there are any concerns.
So its become clear to me that
some stuff is missing, here. I wanted to declare on April 24th because I felt Negotiatons went nowhere, yet, here I have my SITREP from May 11th, where I talk about an attack...On Phoenx. Which is apparently when those nukes hit, and apparently within BH and DECIDE's planning timeline.
JPohlman (deleted) said:
Tribemates,
So, we've just connected with Operation: Liquid Metal. Its a mixed-results OP. Civilion lost a lot of farms and HQs. We cleared a lot of vils and knocked walls down. According to Phoenx's sentiments on the global forums we generated between 3k-5k nukes. That's an alright number!
On the minus side, the caps are something like 10-2(recaps). That's...Embarassing. While there's an argument going on as to how much Phoenx actually killed of BD's and ours, leaving us possibly with enough nukes to get right into the next move, the fact remains that Liquid Metal is only successful if BD is successful on their end. If they are, then we win. If Phoenx didn't kill a lot of troops, they could make a second and maybe a third wave, crippling some Phoenxers and slowing their rebuilding down. It can be a logistical success even if it isn't a statistical one.
To this end: I would like everyone that launched against Phoenx to check into the Phoenx thread. Bookie is writing up a thread that'll ask you to count out what you sent and what you've got coming back. We hope to see that most of your troops are comin' home.
But on to bigger and better, newer an' nicer.
Operation: Serrano Point
In
Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles, which by the way is a frikkin' big show that you should all check out, Serrano Point is a nuclear power plant that the Resistance recaptures. So that's where I'm pulling the name from. While I'm pulling the name, [player]Petra[/player] (AKA Bookie) is going to organize it. Sooo say hello!
And the operation's target is...DECIDE! And it is...A joint operation! With, believe it or not, ~B~. We're not 100% sure on a landing date (see above), but here's the jist: We're gonna crush DECIDE between us and ~B~ and that'll be that. This is also a sort of try-out for ~B~. I've worked with their old diplomat LMawaii for a while, and they have a new diplomat, Articbear. They're good people, and they've shown they can come back from disaster. Think: Green. If they do well, we might ally them.
Once we know how what our operational status is, we're gonna set a landing date and blast them in the face. That'll teach 'em to take forever to surrender.
And then, its on to even BHigger'n BHetter. But that's for later. For now, however, the western guys?
Kill TUC
I want you to noble the everloving crap out of these guys in any K they happen to be in. I want you to put almost all of your effort into it. I believe we will generate plenty of nukes against DECIDE on the east, so don't be afraid to put a lot of troops into nobling Joseb, or anyone else.
If there are any noBHle conflicts with any allied triBHes, let me know. I think you know what I'm getting at.
We need to expand out in the Wild Wild West very fast. So spare no expense. If you're not out west already, consider nobling over. Ask someone if they can spare, for a short while, a developed village just at the edge of your noble range, so you can cap it, build nobles, leap over and then let them re-cap it.
Doing this, we can get there much faster.
If there are any questions, post them in the announcements thread. Oh, a reminder - PLEASE. Only announcements in the announcements thread. Otherwise it gets bogged down. If you have intel, use the general thread please.
Thanks!
All my best!
--Jess
--Emperor, THE
Reading through other SITREPS, I can confirm that we decided to launch Operation: Liquid Metal against Phoenx on April 26, 2010. Which, again, means I must have been talked into not jumping on BH, probably by BD asking for help. Which sounds to me like something really stupid in retrospect, but maybe I was convinced that BH would be willing to talk? I dunno. But then I found this!! And...Ugh.
Key Lime Pie said:
JPohlman (deleted) on 09.04.2010 at 20:37Thanks Quote Edit
Tribemates,
Key Lime Pie, Decide
Currently we are in the midst of Operation: Key Lime Pie. If you haven't launched already, you probably are about to. If you aren't taking part...Why not? Easy vils, lots of ODA, all that fun stuff! Get with it!
Anyhow, after this operation's presumed success, it goes without saying that there will be changes. A number of DECIDE players have applied to THE. We have accepted one, and we currently have an application pending from Gardezbien. I've put her name in the Announcements section - read her sentiments, discuss her candidacy, and give the leadership your input on whether or not she'll be welcome.
NOTE: All recruitment will only occur after Key Lime Pie. All DECIDE players in the operation, many of whom have expressed interest in joining us, are still to be attacked. If you must, consider this their test - If they are weak, they will fall. If they are strong, they will stand and will have proven their worth.
NOTE #2: Any and all recruits are subject to approval from DECIDE's other enemies, and any refugee claims must be resolved before an invitation will even be sent. There are no exceptions. BD, ~B~, and other tribes may well demand penalties up to and including rimming; this is their right, as we have the right to do to them.
We might adopt one or two more DECIDE players...But most of them will not get in. We do not have the space, nor the inclination. We are not mass-recruiting. Some of them are simply dead to us, and will soon be dead to W30. Whether they take new accounts in this or other tribes or not, that is how war goes.
BH
...And speaking of rights. We are still attempting to resolve the BH issue. Let me be clear on this, however: We are not going to act one way or another based on what the W30 consensus on what we should do is. We are not going to declare war simply because the likes of Pajfail and Noobaxes tell us we should. I would rather reserve this and move on to the way we intended to destroy Hammer - not with the recruitment button, but
However, the same applies for the admittedly strong case to go to war with BH: We will not avoid a war with them simply because other people have said we should start one.
They've recruited our food. As far as I am concerned, and as far as the council of THE is concerned, the Hammer players are still Hammer. We are at war with Hammer, regardless of what tribal tag they currently hide behind. I have made quite clear that we are not changing our operation schedule based on their recruitment of our enemies. Our targets will still be our targets when the next operation cycle comes. If BH does not respect this, then it has made its choice - and we will stand firm to our simple credo: "Recruit our food, become our food."
Involvement
I've read over the replies that TangoTemptress got from her survey, and I'm generally pleased at what I read. There are some things I disagree with and some things that I simply wasn't aware were concerns. Some even sound like excuses for laziness, while others serve as 100% legitimate criticisms of the group's situation.
My #1 problem with her survey, however, was that not even half the tribe responded.
I realize there are many sat accounts. That's no excuse. Get in the game, let us know what we can do to make this experience more fun for you. Otherwise, don't - but don't complain when you don't feel people listen to you. We give everyone a chance to speak; we only frown on those who refuse that right until after a decision is made.
Otherwise, the only criticism I have to respond to is regarding tribe-wide OPs. The argument is that the downtime between them, when nukes and nobles are rebuilt, is boring. I agree. Its painfully boring. However, without having to queue up nukes, nobles, supports, fakes, and other timings, its very easy. It might take a bit of time to whip up the recruitments at the barracks, but other than a bit of time (which is always good for hanging out on the tribal forums, global forums, and skype channels!), it isn't demanding. It doesn't require you to wake up at five in the morning to launch an attack (A practice called "alarmclocking" in the old game Utopia), it doesn't require you to spend an entire day at the computer to make sure you launch at the right time, and it doesn't require you to backtime attacks.
Its boring, but it can be made much more fun if you communicate while you do it.
On the other hand, though, we want excitement. Perhaps we will work on developing a new, effective way to decentralize operations. However, for the immediate future (Key Lime Pie and its successor against Hammer), we will be using tribe-wide systems. This is for a very simple reason: The operation will be tribe wide.
Oh. Well, one other suggestion - we are currently looking for a western front general. I have had a very strong recommendation, but I want people who are interested to reply and ask about it themselves. Otherwise, that's it.
All the best!
--Jess
--Emperor, THE.
Lost Wanderer (deleted) on 09.04.2010 at 22:59Thanks Quote Edit Delete
I hope those that were too lazy to give tango a reply have absolutely no complaints. If they do, and I knew who they were I would just brush aside any opinion they stated since.
JPohlman (deleted) on 11.04.2010 at 08:33Thanks Quote Edit Delete
Tribemates,
So I've spoken with all of BH's leadership. After some fruitless negotiations I've asked them to send me their best package for resolving this issue. We might be willing to accept 4-6 Hammer players joining them, but I've made perfectly clear that we don't accept them dismissing just one or two.
The ball is in their court. When they have given me an offer, I will circular it out.
--Jess
heckie (deleted) on 16.04.2010 at 09:30Thanks Quote Edit Delete
we should pick the 4-6 also.
Also found this, buried...
echao on 07.04.2010 at 01:09Thanks Quote Edit Delete
I heard from 2 DECIDE players at different time. They said after they settle down the new members from hammer, BH is going to fight with us.
!