Discussion: Update to version 8.20

DeletedUser93439

Guest
Because its a drag to keep up with all the hundreds of scripts that are used for various reasons. Right now there are still about a hundred scripters worldwide (if not ten times that number to be honest, I'm just blurting out random numbers without a basis here to make a point), the development team for Tribalwars is... 5 people on a daily basis?

I'm just saying that it would be a lot harder (and expensive) than you make it seem to get people on there to fix all those scripts. I'd say part-timers would be fine (because you don't need to update 24/7), but that's.... stupid imo.
 

Grammar Commie

Guest
It's not about keeping up with all of them. It's already been pointed out by FruitFilledEvil that you only need to maintain/support/host an essential core that covers the functionality. How many of those 'hundreds' actually serve a unique purpose? How many are simply derivatives where one or more aspects have been tweaked for individual tastes? Yeah, it might be a pain in the arse to get the system started, but subsequently it should run pretty smoothly (and at little cost) as the scripter(s) would effectively be a part of that development team. Surely it's not beyond the fiscal means of a company like Inno (now raking it in from p2w worlds) to provide for one or two extra positions?
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Just something to mull over.

Instead of spending resources incorporating a tagger into TW they could just as easily spend those resources ensuring that each attackid is unique to the user and not globally sequential (If that makes sense) Im fairly sure when TW was developed that the attackid was only really meant as a primary key rather than a means by which attacks could be more easily tagged. ensuring the attacks ids are no longer globally sequential would certainly help newer players and put an end to some of the advantages those with working taggers have over those that don't.


Not something I would want in truth but just a passing thought I had in a devils advocate type way ;->
 
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sidd 271

Contributing Poster
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312
don't think player based attack id will be useful. Attacks id are used to determine the time of launching. Not sure how player based id will help to achieve this.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
imo, the real matter at hand is something that has barely been mentioned, and not once been addressed by a mod.

the removal of the edit groups link from each of the overview screens.

please take a peak at this server's discussion. theres no complaining about scripts mind you :p

http://forum.tribalwars.us/showthread.php?6580-Change-log-8-20-discussion

our multiple overview screens show us all information that there is in this game. from these screens you have the ability to sort each column, ascending and descending order. before the update, you had the ability to group from any of theseoverview screens. you can pick any overview screen of your choice, along with any sorting function, on any column you wanted. but not anymore, now you can do them 1 at a time, or group from the groups overview screen which gives you no information regarding troop count, village build, or anything important.

as a late game player before this update, i could group, ungroup, regroup hundreds and even thousands of villages inside just moments. now i have 100+ villages with nobles in them, and can't mass group.

my guess is the developers aren't late game players... and if they are, they shouldn't assume their way of grouping or playing the game is the only way. they should not remove features that have literally been there for ages. especially when they are so frequently used.

sorry for the rant, but... no. im really not.
thanks!
 

darkaniken2

Guest
don't think player based attack id will be useful. Attacks id are used to determine the time of launching. Not sure how player based id will help to achieve this.

You missed the point of his post sidd. He was saying that if Inno wanted to break scripts, they could redo the way attack IDs are done, destroying every id-based tagger. This would hurt older players who rely on them to accurately tag, but it would serve to level the playing field for newer players, who rarely have access to an id-based tagger.
 

DeletedUser94483

Guest
Not just access to the tagger but to a group that can accurately maintain them.
 

DeletedUser656

Guest
Changing attack IDs to no longer be human readable is something we've considered, and may happen at some point.
 

Grammar Commie

Guest
Right. Gotcha. Inno's nebulous 'business plan' is becoming clear...

All of the updates ARE intended to drive away anyone who actually knows how to play, in favour of a higher turnover of customers who can't read but do appreciate pretty icons and progress bars; of course, it's also of primary importance that they're willing to splash the cash at every opportunity. Tribes and wars (...possibly even nobling? It's just sooooo damned unfair and aggressive...) will actually become a thing of the past, and you can rebrand the whole experience as 'Happy Hamlets' or something equally fluffy...

I would have thought that TW2 was the perfect arena for all that guff, but hey, what the hell do I know? I'm just someone that used to play this game...
 

DeletedUser93439

Guest
All of the updates ARE intended to drive away anyone who actually knows how to play, in favour of a higher turnover of customers who can't read but do appreciate pretty icons and progress bars; of course, it's also of primary importance that they're willing to splash the cash at every opportunity. Tribes and wars (...possibly even nobling? It's just sooooo damned unfair and aggressive...) will actually become a thing of the past, and you can rebrand the whole experience as 'Happy Hamlets' or something equally fluffy...

The fact that you are nagging about scripts breaking tells me you don't know how to play and are just a script warrior at most.

If they were intended to break the scripts, I'm sure they could just as well change the rules to the ones back in '06: No scripts allowed. Therefor, your entire point is moot.
 

Grammar Commie

Guest
The fact that you are nagging about scripts breaking tells me you don't know how to play and are just a script warrior at most.

Right, so regular use of maybe 7 or 8 scripts makes me a script-warrior? You got me there then...

Game mechanics are simple and there's no need for scripts at all until you have a certain number of vills or have to deal with a certain number of attacks. You can assume what you like about my ability to play (or lack thereof), but managing a multi-village account effectively without scripts becomes ever more difficult with every update. And why is it such heresy to advocate integrating/supporting time-saving scripts, as opposed to eroding the functionality that exists while tarting about with the UI?

If they were intended to break the scripts, I'm sure they could just as well change the rules to the ones back in '06: No scripts allowed.

Not sure why they don't if the level playing field is what they're after - it's certainly preferable to having one set (primarily defensive) break while others (primarily offensive) function normally.

That has been the 1st sensible and honest thing i have seen you post..

1 out of 20 or so, compared to none out of 840 + ... Hmm, I'll take my ratio over yours :)
 

musological

Guest
The fact that you are nagging about scripts breaking tells me you don't know how to play and are just a script warrior at most. If they were intended to break the scripts, I'm sure they could just as well change the rules to the ones back in '06: No scripts allowed. Therefor, your entire point is moot.

Are you mad Marcus? Pin intended ;-) You guys have to get out of denial and admit that you've done something that has made more long term players than you can count quit cold and delete accounts mid world; Totally wrecking and ruining worlds and wars, and just leaving a quarter of the world as barb wastelands.

^That is why people are up in arms. Get out of denial here.

If they were intended to break the scripts, I'm sure they could just as well change the rules to the ones back in '06: No scripts allowed. Therefor, your entire point is moot.

Changing attack IDs to no longer be human readable is something we've considered, and may happen at some point.


And this is exactly the problem ^. Yes, I'm sure if you wanted to make TW no longer humanly playable you guys are going the right way. And you could just have computer bot worlds and charge a viewing fee perhaps...?

People are genuinely miffed off, and the damage is already done. And the attitude back is just the insult to injury. Very disappointed.
 
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DeletedUser89005

Guest
@ Grammar Commie:
out of all your now 21 posts and from all of the others here and i'm taking it for granted that you have read all the posts within this thread (if not please do) can you not get it into your brain that TW/innogames do not maintain nor do they have a responsibility to preserve your 3rd party scripts whilst updating and modernizing the game so that the vast majority off its customers and users can benefit from that, i mean if you bought a BMW, would you expect ford or porsche to honor its warranty, if you got a hair in your mc donalds burger would you ask burger king for the refund, from reading what you post i think you would..

by all means contribute with ideas that may help the game and be a benefit for us all, but please leave your tedious and negative remarks elsewhere as they offer nothing and portray you as a clown..
 

musological

Guest
Your argument is fellacious Bigbert:

It's not Ford and BMW - competitors, making different physical things. Bad examples.

It's software. So sure, someone could release a browser that doesn't support java or html - not their problem (shrug), but useless and not gonna sell well. Or Apple could stop supporting mp3 in their mobile music players and see how long their stock price stays healthy.
 

Grammar Commie

Guest
TW/innogames do not maintain nor do they have a responsibility to preserve your 3rd party scripts whilst updating and modernizing the game so that the vast majority off its customers and users can benefit from that, i mean if you bought a BMW, would you expect ford or porsche to honor its warranty, if you got a hair in your mc donalds burger would you ask burger king for the refund...

Gah, why don't you learn to read? Your contribution here is as snide, tangential, ignorant and pathetic as it is in every thread you've ever tainted.

Yes, Inno/TW don't support or accept responsibility for scripts. That couldn't be clearer.

Why though? That's what is being asked. Updates continue to erode established functions and introduce extra lag and the customers are just supposed to accept that and get used to it. For what? Some hypothetical player base that may or may not come to TW?

Yeah, you wouldn't expect your product warranty to be honoured by another manufacturer, but you wouldn't expect your car to require unspecified and unsupported add-ons once you drive it at more than 40 mph or reach 20k miles either. No, you'd demand of the manufacturer that it integrate those functions for the price that you've paid - not focus on creating a prettier dashboard that periodically breaks all of the solutions that exist to make up for the product's deficiencies.
 

DeletedUser89005

Guest
It's software.
exactly, and if you read the thread and indeed elsewhere within the forums (scripts thread for a start) it will tell you that TW is under no obligation nor does it have a responsibility to maintain 3rd party software/scripts that you decide to implement yourself, hence if you bought a bmw and you fitted a 3rd party clutch yourself only to find it wont work, would you blame bmw?

Yes, Inno/TW don't support or accept responsibility for scripts. That couldn't be clearer.

Why though? That's what is being asked.
you really have to ask why they don't support scripts that they don't create or implement into the game themselves?
as you state:
Yeah, you wouldn't expect your product warranty to be honoured by another manufacturer, but you wouldn't expect your car to require unspecified and unsupported add-ons once you drive it at more than 40 mph or reach 20k miles either. No, you'd demand of the manufacturer that it integrate those functions for the price that you've paid - not focus on creating a prettier dashboard that periodically breaks all of the solutions that exist to make up for the product's deficiencies.
you have never paid innogames for those scripts nor have innogames asked you to pay for having the use of scripts that you incorporate into the game yourself, and if you truly have read this thread then you will see that certain scripts could well become a feature of the game in the future, so in essence you get what you pay for.. and to clarify things more to say that the majority of players use scripts on a daily basis or use them at all would be a lie, as the majority don't, granted updates hinders a certain group of players for a few hours or even days at most, but that is the individuals issue for relying upon those scripts to play the game..
 

DeletedUser93439

Guest
Are you mad Marcus? Pin intended ;-) You guys have to get out of denial and admit that you've done something that has made more long term players than you can count quit cold and delete accounts mid world; Totally wrecking and ruining worlds and wars, and just leaving a quarter of the world as barb wastelands.

^That is why people are up in arms. Get out of denial here.






And this is exactly the problem ^. Yes, I'm sure if you wanted to make TW no longer humanly playable you guys are going the right way. And you could just have computer bot worlds and charge a viewing fee perhaps...?

People are genuinely miffed off, and the damage is already done. And the attitude back is just the insult to injury. Very disappointed.

"you guys" meaning the developers, not the staff here.

The game was updated, scripts break. It happens. Most of them have already gotten fixed afaik. Its not the update that breaks the world/wars, its the people who break them by being impatient.

EN6 had that problem, because of the world lasting TOO long. People just quit, it was similarly boring.

The game is still humanly playable, I play without scripts most of the time. I use a village renamer sometimes. I used to use the mass recruitment scripts, which are sort of obsolete now bar for some very specific things maybe.

The attitude of the staff might not have been the one you want, but its at least a reaction. Reading through this thread, I see the same amount of aggressive posting coming towards the update as always. Very counter productive.

No offense to anyone btw.
 

Grammar Commie

Guest
I see the same amount of aggressive posting coming towards the update as always. Very counter productive.

If the updates actually improved more than they caused to regress, then maybe people would have better things to say about them.

@BigTwerp

You're still missing the point. Deliberately or because you're a cretin - take your pick.

In many online games experience accrued is hard-wired into the game such that it's almost impossible for someone new to the game to ever get near those that have been playing a while. In others the imbalances introduced by p2w are so extensive that it becomes a race to see who can empty their wallet the fastest, and those not prepared to shell out fortunes are never gonna be able to compete.

TW had neither of these issues. 'Experience' can be gained by reading guides (and simply playing) and nothing really carries over from one world to the next. And the p2w being alternate worlds means people can avoid that altogether, while a premium account is no more than a subscription to take the edge off some of the more tiresome aspects of the game.

Access to the utility of scripts was a facet of the premium account so players do pay (at least in part) to use scripts. If you and others have chosen not to, then that's your loss. And for many years some of those scripts have covered up for glaring deficiencies in functionality in the game for people playing beyond start-up. AM, for instance, is next to useless apart from the recruitment templates and building manager, and both rely on the Groups overview, which the latest update has also further crippled.

Everything seems to be directed at making the game more time-consuming for those who've accumulated extra villas (like some kind of punishment akin to morale), and excused because it'll 'attract new players'. So, what are these new players gonna do in these utopian vet-free worlds? Get to a few vills and they'll have no means to effectively deal with their accounts and no one to guide them as to how to do so. Not that veteran players could do so anyway, 'cause all the tools will be gone. Btw, I feel very sorry for the new players that will have to rely on drunken morons like you to guide them, Bert.

There's not really been a satisfactory reason given for not supporting scripts: there's the standard 'there are too many' which has already been debunked, plus the somewhat circular 'we never have'. I've never been to Belize, but that doesn't mean I can't. Sure, integrating scripts is an option, but so far we've only had confirmation that the in-game tagger will be updated at some point in the future. While fast tagging is essential, it's just the tip of the iceberg in terms of functionality that's covered by scripts, or is being slowly stripped away by updates in favour of superfluous UI tosh.

Overall, though, it seems Inno has a plan and is determined to implement it. Gradually get rid of the players who've supported the game for years (unless they're prepared to put up with the game that they loved being gutted), dumb everything down for a new breed of TW players, and do anything to discourage game-play that might lead to a few players getting too many vills on any given world - unless they've paid for that, of course.
 
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DeletedUser

Guest
Changing attack IDs to no longer be human readable is something we've considered, and may happen at some point.

I think you should, I would agree with this. May not like it completely at first. I'd still be for it, because attack-ids are basically a cheat sheet for players. It's like a wallhack for action games, you can see whats coming and where. So all you have to do from there is prepare. I wouldn't mind this game being brought back to way it used to be played. When it comes to having attacks id's.
 
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