Abortion: Pro-Life vs. Pro-Choice

[DeletedUser94707]

Abortions are a sick thing. If you to ProLife.com and look at some of the pictures... There is no way a normal human being wouldn't feel something deep down that this is just wrong. I looked at some of those and it is sick.

What is the total number of legal abortions since 1973?

the estimated total number of abortions is over 46 million.

46 million souls never got to experience life. I don't care if a fetus doesn't think till 24 weeks into pregnancy. God gave those 46 million souls.

46 million lives aborted........................

 

[DeletedUser]

Pro Life-

If you don't want a baby, don't have sex or at least use protection. That simple.

Nice thought, but lets take a trip back to the real world. In the real world, it isn't that simple. Like I mentioned above, very few women who have an abortion do not use any form of protection, and protection isn't a full proof way of preventing pregnancy.

I think the idea of an unborn baby not considered, an actual human being is stupid.

A fetus contains DNA, which means its a human. However the fetus is NOT a human being, it has the potential to be a human being. The same way an acorn has the potential to be an oak tree, it contains all the DNA of an oak tree, but it is NOT an oak tree.

By choosing abortion your killing another human life

Murder is intentionally taking the life of another human being. Abortion is not murder, because a fetus is not an actual human being it's a potential human being, its part of the woman.The concept of murder only applies to the initiation of physical force used to destroy an actual human being, for example, when "pro-life" terrorists bomb abortion clinics.


I don't think anyone has brought up the legal rights yet, so Ill do it. A fetus has no rights, as it does not need freedom to take any actions, but survives on the sustenance of the female body. Also there is no such thing as a "right to live inside another human being", so the fetus has no right to be inside the female body, only when the woman grants it permission (Wants a baby) will the fetus be allowed to stay inside her body and grow.

You can rant about this all day, but it wont change anything, abortion is legal and will remain that way. Everything comes down to the woman's decision, the only way you're going to change that is to oppress women, and that's something you don't want to do.

 

[DeletedUser53503]

So Boss of the Beer,

By your definition of murder, you obviously believe that it is fine to kill every other animal on account that it is not a human being. However, your argument is quite flawed as far as humans go. When any other animal (not plant, completely different kingdoms in the field of biology, which this discussion enters into) is pregnant, what is contained within them in known as nothing less that what the parent is. If a dog is pregnant, the dog is pregnant with a dog, not an embryo, but developing dogs. In the same way, a human fetus is not just "a fetus", it is a developing human being.

 

[DeletedUser]

So Boss of the Beer

Ironically I don't drink...

By your definition of murder, you obviously believe that it is fine to kill every other animal on account that it is not a human being.

You shmuck, you completely missed the point.

Legal definition of murder - The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice -


So you don't have any trouble understanding, I've bolded the key words. As you can see murder is considered an unlawful killing of another human being, this does not apply to animals, if it did most of the human population would be considered murderers. Just because the definition of murder doesn't apply to animals, that does not mean I think its fine to go round killing and abusing them. And if you haven't guessed it already, this is also the reason abortion isn't considered murder, because its completely legal in the eyes of the law. And for the people who don't know, this little "Murdering animals" argument is usually a stupid trick used by vegetarians who don't get their own way.

However, your argument is quite flawed as far as humans go.

My arguments are never flawed.


Anyway I'm bored of repeating myself, I've made my points clear.

 

[DeletedUser53503]

Good for you. I don't drink beer either, I can't get past the smell.

Thank you for highlighting your words by bolding them. I'm sorry that I missed your definition and your point. Now let me bold my words for you so you can actually debate me on an intelligent level:

"However, your argument is quite flawed as far as humans go. When any other animal (not plant, completely different kingdoms in the field of biology, which this discussion enters into) is pregnant, what is contained within them in known as nothing less that what the parent is. If a dog is pregnant, the dog is pregnant with a dog, not an embryo, but developing dogs. In the same way, a human fetus is not just "a fetus", it is a developing human being."

You seem to have missed this part... thought I would point it out to you.

 

[DeletedUser94707]

My arguments are never flawed.

Your a human being, They will always have flaws...

I've got to ask you bosbeer, Have you ever looked at abortion pictures?

 

[DeletedUser]

Your a human being, They will always have flaws...

I've got to ask you bosbeer, Have you ever looked at abortion pictures?

I've grown up as a farmer, and I've seen animal death in many shapes and forms, and to me humans are just a more developed group of animals, so those pictures affect me to no extent, and typically only shock people who are arguing concepts, not realities -the same kind who turn vegetarian after seeing slaughterhouses.

In my view, people who use contraception should be allowed to get abortions, as they are actively trying to not get pregnant. But there's no way to police who is and isn't, which is where it gets murky.

If someone gets pregnant against their will (rape, or using contraception and it fails) it's fine. If they're just being idiots and having sex without regard for anything, they don't deserve to get an abortion, but thinking of the child that could be, it might grow up in a really bad situation, be orphaned, etc etc - it might grow up hating that it was born into the world.

Thats getting into philosophy though, is non-existence preferable to a poor one? We cannot know that.

The question you have to ask is not should people be allowed abortions, because the answer to that is definitely yes, but who and under what circumstances should be allowed it.

EDIT -

God gave those 46 million souls.

46 million lives aborted........................

Also, think of all the children that are being born now that couldn't be before medicine advanced. Is scientific advance against God? Some people argue it is.

 

[DeletedUser]

Good for you. I don't drink beer either, I can't get past the smell.

Same, although its more the health risks that put me off. And I like to be in a nice state of mind, alcohol doesn't really help with that.

When any other animal (not plant, completely different kingdoms in the field of biology, which this discussion enters into) is pregnant, what is contained within them in known as nothing less that what the parent is. If a dog is pregnant, the dog is pregnant with a dog, not an embryo, but developing dogs. In the same way, a human fetus is not just "a fetus", it is a developing human being."

You seem to have missed this part... thought I would point it out to you.

No need to bold, I know all things. And I didn't miss it, in fact I read it thoroughly and came to the conclusion that it was the same point that's already been made by previous pro-lifers, yours was just worded differently. But if its upsetting you that much...

From what I can gather the gist of your post was this, it doesn't matter if the fetus is in a "development" stage its still a human being, and is still a baby. The problem here is the word "developing", yes a fetus is developing into a human being, however that does not make it a human being. A fetus is a potential human being, it contains human DNA, this makes it human not a human being. For a fetus to be a human being it would need to be:

1. An individual - (Well doesn't have that, its part of the woman)
2. Have a physiological/physical independence outside its mother - (Doesn't have that either)

Only when its born, will the fetus be an individual, and it will remain physically dependant until birth. When the birth is complete it will be an individual baby, with physiological/physical independence... a human being.

I've got to ask you bosbeer, Have you ever looked at abortion pictures?

Yes I have seen many pictures, ever looked into the eyes of a child who was never loved? Much more ugly.

 

[DeletedUser94707]

Yes I have seen many pictures, ever looked into the eyes of a child who was never loved? Much more ugly.

I understand your point...

But out of those 46 million how many would have said "I wish I never had been born"

Im sure there would be alot. But more would have enjoyed life then being aborted

 

[DeletedUser]

I was aborted.

 

[DeletedUser]

I understand your point...

But out of those 46 million how many would have said "I wish I never had been born"

Im sure there would be alot. But more would have enjoyed life then being aborted

God is another debate :lol: Now 46 million... whoa big number. BUT!

Aborting fetuses keep babies from suffering abuse, starvation, being unwanted, etc etc.

 

[DeletedUser94707]

True,

But out of those 46 million would every one of them been unloved?

I agree with an abortion when someone gets pregnant against their own will (they had nothing to do with it)

Here is something that I think might work. I have read alot about abortion since the start of this thread. It has come to my knowledge that a incredible amount of people have repeated abortions over and over again.

I think that if everyone was granted 1 abortion maybe that would help both sides of the arguement. The reason for one would be to give a second chance for someone who has screwed up. There is just to many people having abortions over and over again

Across all age groups, 64,715 repeat abortions were carried out last year. This is the biggest figure on record and includes 46 women who had terminated at least eight pregnancies.

Can someone explain why someone should be able to have eight abortions? That is unheard of. (the quote was from 2008)

Pro-life rose from 33% to 43%
Pro-choice declined from 56% to 48%

Pro-life is on the raise and will continue growing...

Why Abortions Are Performed
The overwhelming majority of all abortions, (95%), are done as a means of birth control.
Only 1% are performed because of rape or incest;
1% because of fetal abnormalities;
3% due to the mother's health problems

Birth control.... Surely condoms and birth control pill don't fail to cause 1.4 million abortions a year?

Also, think of all the children that are being born now that couldn't be before medicine advanced. Is scientific advance against God? Some people argue it is.

I personally love medical tech, We are already learning how to rewrite are genes to live for 100s maybe 1000s of years.

Some people think abortions help population control. What happens when the human race unlocks our gene codes and can rewrite them to live for 1000s of years? Some scientist think were a mere 20 years away from that.

Sorry if this post is hard to read, Im busy with other things and just wrote it up quickly

 

[letrotsa]

.

Nice thought, but lets take a trip back to the real world. In the real world, it isn't that simple. Like I mentioned above, very few women who have an abortion do not use any form of protection, and protection isn't a full proof way of preventing pregnancy.

Birth control.... Surely condoms and birth control pill don't fail to cause 1.4 million abortions a year?

.

Legal definition of murder - The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice -

That sounds like abortion to me

 

[letrotsa]

That wasn't a very good post on my part, sorry about that.

 

[DeletedUser]

Can someone explain why someone should be able to have eight abortions? That is unheard of. (the quote was from 2008)

Now that is too far. Goes back to what I said about case by case basis. Pretty disgusting if she was just that lazy.

Birth control.... Surely condoms and birth control pill don't fail to cause 1.4 million abortions a year?

You'd be surprised at how often accidents happen, but given population size and sexual activity the likelihood is the same percentage over a much larger number.

I personally love medical tech, We are already learning how to rewrite are genes to live for 100s maybe 1000s of years.

Some people think abortions help population control. What happens when the human race unlocks our gene codes and can rewrite them to live for 1000s of years? Some scientist think were a mere 20 years away from that.

Abortions help population control is an argument that I would hesitate to use. Sure, forced abortions do the job in some countries to try and curb resource use, but by itself I don't feel it's a good enough reason - contraception should be made available if at all possible, and abortion is always the last resort.

Thing is, keeping people alive for 1000s of years will only exacerbate our resource problems :/

Until we're off our dependency on fossil fuels, and lower pollution, there isn't a truly viable future for the human race.

 

[DeletedUser94707]

I really doubt the government will stop abortions. I think in the future with the current rise of pro-lifers, The government will regulate abortions better and prevent people from having more then 1 or 2 abortions.

Until we're off our dependency on fossil fuels, and lower pollution, there isn't a truly viable future for the human race.

I can see the human race on the moon mining resources in 20 years. Once the earth's resources are gone we will need to look to the stars to find more.

 

[DeletedUser53503]

. A fetus is a potential human being, it contains human DNA, this makes it human not a human being. For a fetus to be a human being it would need to be:

1. An individual - (Well doesn't have that, its part of the woman)
2. Have a physiological/physical independence outside its mother - (Doesn't have that either)

By your point in #2, what do you therefor classify, say a Human vegitble? The brain dead?

 

[DeletedUser]

Abortion is good.
We need more abortions and less overpopulation.

 

[DeletedUser]

Until we're off our dependency on fossil fuels, and lower pollution, there isn't a truly viable future for the human race.

Duh, we colonize space and rape other planets of their resources.

 

[DeletedUser]

Duh, we colonize space and rape other planets of their resources.

Yeah, because space colonization is so easy right now without portals/faster than light travel/significant advances in cryogenics.

However, if that was blatant sarcasm, I agree :icon_biggrin: