Account of the war

[MichielK]

I'm now in the long process of moving into Axls' shoes and surpassing him.

 

[DeletedUser]

Also, quit refering to this as "we placed X points outside the tribe". This is not someone who quit and wants to give his villages away for free. SF once again decided for whatever reason to eat a former Sunny player who did not want to be eaten (remember Alex?). To dismiss this as insignificant and not worth mentioning is either very naive or very stupid.

He took about a dozen villages off of SF members already, and is up by 8 million ODD in the past week and a half. Granted, that's not very impressive (then again, how well would any of us do if our tribe turned on us like that?), but he is costing you troops, nobles, time and effort, not to mention that sooner or later some of your tribemates will catch on and realise they have more to fear from their own tribe than from us....but yeah, keep sending support far away :lol:

Btw, I seriously hope none of you were sitting him just before or during the first days of eating. If you did, he'd have an excellent chance to file a sitter abuse ticket.

I wasnt gonna address this until you made it seem like SF just decided to turn their backs on him and started eating him or that they broke the rules and had a sitter who did the account wrong. I cant see where it has been said so i gues i'll be the one to tell you the truth. MV00MV was inactive so SF did the normal thing and started eating the account before it went barb, a few days into the account being nobled he returns and instantly starts attacking SF. I dont even think he mailed them to say i'm back stop the attacks but instead went straight to attacking. They really had no choice but to noble him after that.

 

[MichielK]

I wasnt gonna address this until you made it seem like SF just decided to turn their backs on him and started eating him or that they broke the rules and had a sitter who did the account wrong. I cant see where it has been said so i gues i'll be the one to tell you the truth. MV00MV was inactive so SF did the normal thing and started eating the account before it went barb, a few days into the account being nobled he returns and instantly starts attacking SF. I dont even think he mailed them to say i'm back stop the attacks but instead went straight to attacking. They really had no choice but to noble him after that.

By the time he came back, he already lost more than 10% of his account to his own tribemates, with probably many more incomings on the way. If I were in that situation, I'd also hit back first, ask questions later. Besides, why is it his responsibility to mail the people who are attacking him? Why didn't anyone in the leadership mail him before the eating started to say something like this?

"You're inactive, so we have no choice but to eat you. If you come back and read this, mail me as soon as you can! We'll stop the attacks and get you enough easy villages so that you'll be back on your feet in no time "

Also, don't act as if you have no choice. There's a week between the first loss and the first ODA jump, so he was certainly back within a week after the eating started. In fact, I suspect he actually came back after 3 days, and that's why you kicked him out...after all, SF never kicks out people they're eating. That means that he either A) had premium, or B) wasn't even red when you started eating. Either way, you knew he wasn't going to go barb on you. And why would it matter if he did go barb? That would only ensure that you'd have no morale penalty.

You act as if you had no choice, while there was in fact no legitimate strategic or tactical reason to eat this guy so early. Let's call it what it is: greed. The reason he's being eaten now is because his tribemates wanted his villages more than they wanted him. It's Alexhol all over again.

So, all you SFers and SFettes out there: you'd better not get sick, have a family emergency or lose your internet access, because there are 50 people greedily eyeing your villages as we speak...and none of them are in C² :lol:

 

[DeletedUser]

1. So they should have waited until he went barb then started eating him instead of putting the villages to use as soon as possible?
2. Well i guess me and you are completely different, if i went inactive i would expect to comeback to attacks. So instead of making the tribe waste even more resources by fighting me i would have just said i'm back stop the attacks. Fighting back means you will be rimmed while a simple mail makes sure you dont lose everything you worked for.
3. Now see as far as him coming back in 3 days thats certainly not true, SF were dragging their feet to start eating him is what happened.

 

[DeletedUser]

That looks pretty close to right. Proportionally my feet a way bigger then my body so they will fit.

 

[DeletedUser]

That's an interesting way to do this, actually. However, are we going to elect one player per tribe? If you want to elect one player overall, that actually gives neither SF nor C² an incentive to vote :icon_razz:

I'm not really bothered. I made a suggestion and was hoping others would expand on it :icon_wink:

I'll leave it to alex to decide since this is his thread.

 

[MichielK]

1. So they should have waited until he went barb then started eating him instead of putting the villages to use as soon as possible?

Yes, because the tribemate is more important than the villages. Waiting longer increases the chance of keeping your tribemate, and that easily outweighs cutting a week off of troop recruitment time.

2. Well i guess me and you are completely different, if i went inactive i would expect to comeback to attacks. So instead of making the tribe waste even more resources by fighting me i would have just said i'm back stop the attacks. Fighting back means you will be rimmed while a simple mail makes sure you dont lose everything you worked for.

It's not me and you that are different, it's my tribe and your tribe. If I go inactive for a week, I know my tribemates won't be attacking me yet. We've all been through too much together for that to happen.

3. Now see as far as him coming back in 3 days thats certainly not true, SF were dragging their feet to start eating him is what happened.

Him coming back three days after you started eating, not 3 days after he last logged in. Seriously, the post was pretty clear.

 

[DeletedUser78416]

1) MV00MV was pretty quiet, it would have been hard to tell if he went inactive or wasn't coming back. Maybe he communicated with a select few. He never posted in tribe...

2) The reason the Sunny merger didn't have a significant effect on both offensive or defensive stats was because Sunny was comprised 3/4's noobs.

I don't care if anyone takes offense to that, it is what it is. MV00MV, Flipman, Pearcy, CBK, Sauroni, etc., I might have missed a few, were and are good players. Look at jfpolve...he was in coal which everyone would consider a pretty worthless tribe, but he has grown like a monster since first being recruited...by me! :icon_cool:

The point is, every tribe has players who either don't care, are too casual, don't grasp the concept of the game like others, etc., and thus cannot make a signficant contribution as such to warrant an entire tribe. The players listed above do not constitute an entire tribe, so to think that a handful of good players can make a significant difference is pretty naive. I don't mean that in an offensive way, again, but it is simply reality. You can't have players who mixed villages, with no concept of offense and defense (and to separate them or have a strategy), and expect them to make an impact. Then you take the Flipmans, the Pearcymans and the CBK's, etc., who do have a grasp of how to play, and realize that 7-10 players can't possibly make a big enough impact, when being asked to support a frontline that consists of hundreds of villages. It is simple math. Sure, you guys have 500D to spare, great, but we have 500 vills up front that need covering. 1D each isn't going to cut it, so choose wisely basically.

My 2 pennies, no offense meant to anyone, math rules, I'm stupid and I'm sorry if anyone was offended by being called a noob; but if you only have 80 villages this late in the game...

 

[Seagryfn]

Also, if you're claiming not to know where our focus has been lately, you're either playing dumb or communication is even more broken down within SF than I expected.
.....
28%. Right.
MK

*meh* Any stats can be twisted to support any argument the speaker cares to make. As I said earlier, gossipwhores always win and cannot be beaten. That does not make an argument representational of the whole picture, even if the facts presented are "true."

One example of the "where is the focus" propaganda.... There is a daily stat on TWStats called "Enoble Loser"
This tracks the number of villages each player (or tribe) lost in battle, conquered by nobles.

From the last 7 days
Rank	Tribe	Lost Villages
1	C²	144
2	SF	103
3	Plight	39

This figure had been far more embarrassing for C² a few days ago, when it showed MANY more C² villages eaten in a week. It didn't seem to me to worth mentioning... until I saw this thread again. I present it now only to show that any set of numbers can be summoned to support any position. In the end, its all nothing but just more hot air. So, if anyone is claiming not to know where their focus has been, it has been on eating their dead. Just like the people they are pointing fingers at here, in an effort to demoralize you and distract your attention away from inconvenient truths.

The gossip whore will show you ONLY the "enoble winner" and show how far they are ahead!! Anyone can quote "truth" all day until their fingers are numb, if thats the game they like playing. The only way one truly loses Tribalwars (IN game) on W16 any more is to quit. Therefore that is what all that propaganda is about; a concentrated effort to get you to quit or give up, without you ever figuring out the other side has the same troubles anyone else has.


(And for the people who just want to argue THIS stat, the Enoble winner = C² 341, Plight 277, SF 215, for a "Net" of Plight 238, C² 197, SF 112. And do these numbers represent the "true state" of W16? Only if the game you prefer to play is PnP. The point is... numbers are numbers. The REAL winners are the players who keep on playing and don't give up.)

 

[DeletedUser]

Have to chip in here SG with your post. Many of Plight's gains are from barbs and players that were once part of Plight, yet no longer. We can debate the reasons for this (and have been) but all of the major tribes do a lot of internal eating (whether or not the eating if of people currently in the tribe).

 

[Seagryfn]

hello Adam. I would not suggest otherwise. I am just showing how any game stat from anywhere can be used for any reason by someone wishing to "prove" their point, but that was not my point. The only thing people quoting stats for countless pages proves is that they like to play PnP. *shrugs* Players should play the game (whichever game it is they are playing) because they want to, and they enjoy it. A choice to stay or quit should not be made because mere numbers "prove" anything. The presentation of numbers to prove a point is, in and of itself, a flawed game... one designed to affect emotions and judgment (hence, politics and propaganda).

 

[MichielK]

Seagryfn,

I find it odd that you have never mentioned this aversion to discussing stats until recently. Nearly 700 posts on the forum, and it never came up until the last few. I wonder why that is...surely it has nothing to do with the fact that village totals are becoming the stat of choice, and that stat indicates rather severe problems in your tribe. Nah, that can't be it! :icon_razz:

If people want to discuss the stats, let them discuss the stats. No rules are broken, nobody's getting hurt, and I'm sure you'd have no problem with it if the situation was reversed and you were the healthily growing tribe while we were the ones losing members left and right. Instead, you've lost nearly a quarter of your members since the war was announced, including many large, active and skilled players, and your claim that the other side is having the same problems is a bald-faced lie. Nobody has problems that severe.

Finally, calling people "gossipwhores" because they don't live up to your standards of what a TW player should be like is completely unnecessary, and I find it extremely arrogant for you to presume that you have either the power or the right to dictate what everyone else should be doing. If you want to set standards and expect them to be followed, go order your tribe around. Don't do it here.

MK

 

[DeletedUser]

The only thing people quoting stats for countless pages proves is that they like to play PnP. *shrugs* Players should play the game (whichever game it is they are playing) because they want to, and they enjoy it. A choice to stay or quit should not be made because mere numbers "prove" anything. The presentation of numbers to prove a point is, in and of itself, a flawed game... one designed to affect emotions and judgment (hence, politics and propaganda).

I find it extremely arrogant for you to presume that you have either the power or the right to dictate what everyone else should be doing.

Seagryfn is hardly telling you how to play the game, shes simply telling people not to get worked up over it and warning that pnp is designed to affect emotions (not something everyone is aware of surprisingly enough). hence why she said everyone should play it how they enjoy it...

maybe you need to take her advice and not get worked up over every little thing people say? :icon_rolleyes:

 

[DeletedUser]

She's telling people what they should do. Nowhere did she imply it's simply her opinion, she stated it with absolute certainty. She said why players should play the game, and why they shouldn't quit. But she said it with an air of arrogance, because she didn't state it as an opinion, but as a fact.

 

[MichielK]

Seagryfn is hardly telling you how to play the game, shes simply telling people not to get worked up over it and warning that pnp is designed to affect emotions (not something everyone is aware of surprisingly enough). hence why she said everyone should play it how they enjoy it...

And if that happens to be a way that she doesn't appreciate, you're a "gossipwhore" and not a "player". No, clearly there's no judgement in there, what was I thinking? :icon_razz:

 

[DeletedUser]

so your ok with calling people 'point whores' etc but not gossip whores? talk about being hypocritical... its a very similar thing.

 

[MichielK]

so your ok with calling people 'point whores' etc but not gossip whores? talk about being hypocritical... its a very similar thing.

And where have I said I was ok with calling people "point whores"? If you want to call me hypocritical, so be it...but at least do it with something I actually said :icon_wink:

I don't believe anyone should be criticised for playing style. If someone wants to noble small barbs (or post stats on the publics) but is an awesome fighter, IMO they should get credit for what they do rather than be ridiculed for the way they do it.

 

[DeletedUser]

calling people point whores or suggesting that people are point whores is the same as saying its ok IMO. and so you can call people point whores but then as soon as someone says something similar to you its suddenly wrong? thats being hypocritical.

I don't believe anyone should be criticised for playing style. If someone wants to noble small barbs (or post stats on the publics) but is an awesome fighter, IMO they should get credit for what they do rather than be ridiculed for the way they do it.

you have criticised peoples playing styles on many occasions so what... one rule for you another for everyone else? :icon_rolleyes:

this is politics and propaganda... the idea is to crticise the other side.

 

[MichielK]

calling people point whores or suggesting that people are point whores is the same as saying its ok IMO. and so you can call people point whores but then as soon as someone says something similar to you its suddenly wrong? thats being hypocritical.

Again, use an example of something I actually did. Enough with the strawman arguments already.

you have criticised peoples playing styles on many occasions so what... one rule for you another for everyone else? :icon_rolleyes:

this is politics and propaganda... the idea is to crticise the other side.

Generally, the only way players get involved in my posts is for lack of skill, not simply having the wrong style...and I'm very careful to even do that. I'm pretty sure you'll find that most of my criticism is aimed at tribes rather than players, and at leadership style rather than playing style.

EDIT: Also, why are we even having this discussion? Your argument is that SG can make blanket claims about dozens of players at once and there's nothing wrong with that, and the reason you give is that something I did not say may be equally bad? Constructive. Very constructive.

 

[DeletedUser]

challenge accepted!

Bottom line: a vote for half-priced packets is a vote for EQUAL WAR, MORE WHORE. If you really want to do the same things as you're doing now and noble a tiny barb and build the ~50 barbs that you've taken that are not fully built yet, all of this simply to keep up...by all means, vote for it.

heres you saying that anyone who wanted to vote for half priced nobles is basically agreeing to more point whoring... and this is aimed at a gaming style rather than a player.

you have also called gammy a point whore on many occasions and/or whined about him taking lots of small barbs (despite the fact that people in your own tribe do that as well) and i really cant be bothered to add them all to this post, here is a couple of examples to get you going though.

No, you get criticised for eating 47 barbs under 1000 points in less than a week. That's not in-tribe eating, that's pointwhoring.

Nah, I wouldn't want to keep you from nobling barbs and inactives.

Gammy, you're lazy, you're selfish, you're a pointwhore, you're too afraid to move out from your safe area, and your presence in the tribe damages them more than it benefits them. In fact, your inane responses are a continuous source of motivation to work hard and defeat the enemy...for us.

and just to wrap up...... heres you gossiping like an old fish wife just incase....

Well spotted, looks like Spank me Silly deleted his account :icon_eek: He was ranked 5th in Plight, top 25 worldwide, and just donated 6.5 million points to the big grey empire.

I have no clue about why he did this, since he wasn't under heavy pressure from us. I can only assume something happened internally in Plight, but that's pure speculation. While I'm sure someone will respond that this is part of the grand master plan to euthanise W16, I think most of us would consider it a bad sign when your biggest members start deleting their accounts.

so yes your a hypocrite on that. :icon_wink:

EDIT: just saw your edit, i didnt say this was constructive or aim for it to be so. and well ive already shown you have said that....