Exposing Top 25 Players

DeletedUser118416

Guest
I found this game through a advertisement banner. This game is just purely not advertised enough because it is not the newest game. Again you don't see COD Battlefield or any franchise infact every advertising any of their older games no matter the popularity over their newest release. Player base comes and goes but when a game has a sequel its very vry rare the older games fan base sticks on the first game. Very niche community for TW because TW2 was not up to scratch competitively. Strategy games have a very large online community in terms of how many people enjoy strategy games but the zero advertisement to attract said people is the main cause for why this game is dieing.

I am actually shocked that Inno are still even releasing developments for this game. As a games company this doesn't normally happen.
 
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mch123

Guest
Why does everything have to be so binary with you guys? Either it's dead... or... it needs millions in marketing and has to be a global genre leading game? Where's the practical middle ground approach?

TWstat.com says there are 40,000 active users... inflated or not, it's going to be the number I use here because I don't have access to anything better.

At $1 per user per month, that's $480,000 revenue per year. Is that achievable under the free to play model with other forms of income generation? I have no fckn idea but this user would happily pay more than that per month on merch or even donations for a fair game, especially if the company was transparent about this stuff and for the community.

I think you could practically double the games player base just by improving the game mechanics and taking care of the community a little better. Then you have $1,000,000 in revenue. Try telling me now that servers, office, and staff total more than $1M for what is essentially a website - and yes I know it's more complicated than a simple website but we are not talking a AAA budget, polished standalone type game either, which is what some replies on this topic sound like.

Branding and marketing doesn't have to be big and expensive projects either. Some consistent, light, targeted social media type stuff would be enough to bring in a gradual flow of new players. Again, it's not my area of expertise but I follow people in the industry and see examples of where it's being done well to know it's realistically possible. I've posted many ideas in other threads for building up the community and making them feel valued enough to spend money. It just takes a little creativity and effort.

Everything comes back to this though: No amount of branding/marketing/community management will make up for a broken product. You have to fix the broken game mechanics first.

I really respect the enthusiasm, I want Tribal Wars to succeed and go back to its former glory myself. However realistically, I don't think it will happen. Everything should have a beginning and an end, dragging stuff on for too long generally doesn't end well.
If everyone had your level of pessimism, nothing new would ever get invented and the world would never change. Your default response to everything is to look for all the potential roadblocks. Please try spending half of that energy on coming up with solutions.

As long as there is a community that love and want to play the game, it doesn't have to ever die. It's such a broken philosophy to assume every thing has to fit the "product life cycle" model and all decision have to be made accordingly. It's the customer demand that determines a products lifespan.

Or in this case at least, you break the product and drive away your customers. Which is another topic of the P2W model. People who are paying want to dominate the players who are not paying. If you drive away the non-paying players... where is the content for the paying one? That's why TW currently has an expiry date.

It just doesn't need to end this way is all I'm saying.

Just as a side note, I found this image that I think will help people look at the different types of player in our game. The opinions about the game state, why we play, etc are going to be different for you and I but having that full understanding of the 4 different types may open your eyes to options for changing the TW product to cater more heavily to one that would make a business model viable again. You compare the game to chess while I compare it to a game of football with my teammates. Very different perspectives and the nuances change the approach a business should take to cater to their customers.
9bbdffba17290ee79c060eb61cfc3656.png
 

mch123

Guest
P2W makes Innogames significantly more money than keeping the playerbase happy.
Not if the game is dead.

Again, stop putting up roadblocks and find solutions. If Innogames won't change (for whatever reason) and TW has an expiry date anyway, what's stopping us as a community from creating and funding a new game?

I'm in this for my friends and the community as a whole, not specifically for Innogames. If we can create a convenient solution that is good for all parties, great! It's way more convenient than trying to create a new game entirely and find support for it. It is an option though and something I'm already looking into.

It's mighty challenging but there is a solution.
 
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Deleted User - 10618707

Guest
Funny how you guys this game can be saved lul. Most people wouldn't spend a dollar on this game to keep it alive.
 

mch123

Guest
Lol game is already dead. You are all delusional
Funny how you guys this game can be saved lul. Most people wouldn't spend a dollar on this game to keep it alive.
Thanks for your input guys, real constructive and useful feedback.

I have plenty of friends in the game whom, under the right conditions, would spend money. Free to play isn't about getting everyone to spend, it's about getting enough to spend.

So what would it take for you to spend $1 on any game, forget TW for now. What are you looking for? Would you buy merch if you loved a game and the company that ran it? Do you pay for membership subscriptions for any other games? Or a service like twitch? If so, why? Playing because it's free is fine too but at least address the debate with something that is useful.

Game is not dead either, you are still here posting - even if that is just to laugh at delusional players like me. If that's your only motive though, I'd say go to reddit or some other platform, there is plenty of high quality free food for you there.

Alternatively, you can tell the rest of us what matters to you, what you want from this game and why you play? Then maybe we can start thinking about steps towards that. You clearly dislike where this game is going and what's happened over the past few years. The minimum you can do is not contribute to the problem by adding your negativity and pessimism.

Seriously, why even both posting at all if it's dead... what does telling others "dead game is dead" actually achieve for you here?
 

DeletedUser121413

Guest
As said above, all your struggling will result in a mockery made of once great game. Best to shut down people like you.
 

DeletedUser118986

Guest
I found this game through a advertisement banner. This game is just purely not advertised enough because it is not the newest game. Again you don't see COD Battlefield or any franchise infact every advertising any of their older games no matter the popularity over their newest release. Player base comes and goes but when a game has a sequel its very vry rare the older games fan base sticks on the first game. Very niche community for TW because TW2 was not up to scratch competitively. Strategy games have a very large online community in terms of how many people enjoy strategy games but the zero advertisement to attract said people is the main cause for why this game is dieing.

I am actually shocked that Inno are still even releasing developments for this game. As a games company this doesn't normally happen.

I actually agree, the game simply isn't advertised enough. They spend more time sending emails and making offers to previous players rather than trying to bring in a new crowd. Fan bases come and go, but it's also partially Inno's fault for not attempting to bring in a new crowd. TW2 was their attempt at a new crowd. P2W partly ruined this game but wasn't the only reason for the game's decline. This game is old and real time strategy isn't as popular as it once was (sadly).
 

foolproof32

Non-stop Poster
Reaction score
22
I actually agree, the game simply isn't advertised enough. They spend more time sending emails and making offers to previous players rather than trying to bring in a new crowd. Fan bases come and go, but it's also partially Inno's fault for not attempting to bring in a new crowd. TW2 was their attempt at a new crowd. P2W partly ruined this game but wasn't the only reason for the game's decline. This game is old and real time strategy isn't as popular as it once was (sadly).
Tbh I feel you could make the worlds atleast 2x or even 3x than what it is now if they just started advertising again. A lot of their games are P2W and to think they can't spend any money on advertisement and marketing just shocks me.
 

Mintyfresh

Skilled Soldier 18 & Master Commander 21 & 22
Reaction score
4,382
The number of armchair economics professors and business experts in here is pretty lolsy.

DW guys I'm fairly certain that inno knows exactly what their doing with the game whether you can appreciate or understand it is another matter entirely
 

DeletedUser118986

Guest
The number of armchair economics professors and business experts in here is pretty lolsy.

DW guys I'm fairly certain that inno knows exactly what their doing with the game whether you can appreciate or understand it is another matter entirely

Well the money speaks for itself. If p2w wasn't making profit then they wouldn't be doing it (basic business). It's not that I don't appreciate it, maybe I truly don't understand it though. But that's also on Inno because no one knows what their vision is for this game. All we have to believe is that they are raking profits as much as possible on a dying game. So to me they are just milking what they can before it eventually disappears.
 

DeletedUser1082

Guest
maybe get back OT? Y'know, on this thread about the top 25? This topic is hardly going to breathe life into the game, is it.
 

Mithrae

Guest
I think you could practically double the games player base just by improving the game mechanics and taking care of the community a little better.

Double the player base? I dunno. But it's the number of accounts which particularly interests me... but seems to be largely ignored by Innogames, which I don't understand. They don't make money from the number of players, only having more accounts - yet their efforts to decrease the necessity of coplaying seem minimal at best. Legal push accounts being one obvious disadvantage suffered by solo players raised in this thread, with three others being farming, tagging incomings and dodging mass fakes/nukes. Of the four issues Innogames has addressed one fairly well (fake limits don't work too well, but watchtowers as a world option are good) and one very poorly (limited hauls as currently implemented is far too limited and disadvantages latecomers to a world).

24/7 unlimited farming and legal push accounts also seriously disadvantage and discourage newcomers to the game.

Not that they should ban coplaying - far from it, player fatigue is another big issue which can make people leave or take a break from the game, so coplaying later in the game is hugely important. But it's really surprising how little they've done to keep solo play viable in the early and mid game.
 

mch123

Guest
Who's playing solo today and is hoping to accomplish something?
New players? - who quickly realise the extent of which the deck is stacked against them and quit.

Occurred to me last night that P2W undermines team play as well. Why join a tribe when you can just buy the extra power you need? It's not THAT extreme, due to other players also having this ability and tribes working harder to tackle these individuals, but it is a factor. Its eroding away at core principles in this game.

Not that they should ban coplaying - far from it, player fatigue is another big issue which can make people leave or take a break from the game, so coplaying later in the game is hugely important. But it's really surprising how little they've done to keep solo play viable in the early and mid game.
2 points here:
1 - Player fatigue is common in any competitive game or sport. It's one of the controllable variables to success - how much effort you put in. Worse players are going to try harder and risk burning out in order to compete.
2 - You could slow down the tempo of the game so there are periods where you can't do anything but wait, rest and recover. Another thing that has been lost in the P2W faster gratification era.

Double the player base? I dunno.

I did some interesting research on player numbers last night. Produced a graph and everything (maybe I'll post it soon). Basically the rate of decline has slowed to something like -0.8% decrease in players per month for the last 3 years. It's like 300-400 players per month (on average) leaving the game. Maybe this account deletion thing will shake this up, who knows but the point is it's kind of flattened out and stabilised at a relatively low level decline. Something that could be turned into a slight positive by fixing the issues that are being brought up in this thread, especially in regards to obtaining and retaining new players.

At the current rate, the game will be at 25k players in 5 years time. I don't think the game is necessarily going to close down and die any time soon. However, I also don't know where Innogames number is but they must be able to predict it.

It would take a 1.1% month on month increase to double the player base to 70k in the same period.

Of the four issues Innogames has addressed one fairly well (fake limits don't work too well, but watchtowers as a world option are good).
While I agree watchtowers are good for new players and recreationals, it also creates mid/late game stalemates. Once the big tribes have established their borders and watchtowers, it's near impossible to break through. Front-lines get stacked and trying to target villas behind the front-line buys so much time for the enemy to shift defence around and stack the villas where they can clearly see which are the real targets.

You mentioned about fatigued above, but this experience due to watchtowers added to this and was incredibly boring and frustrating to me. Going back to the core principles of games like this - which is battles, wars, coordinated teamwork, and whatever else - watchtowers are detrimental and undermine the game as a whole just to better protect worse players. Mostly I feel it's in reaction to the growing divide between the top and bottom tiers of player which is due to the ability to buy power and speed up growth.
 
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dzippe

Non-stop Poster
Reaction score
340
New players? - who quickly realise the extent of which the deck is stacked against them and quit.
Doesn't the new players quit cuz they don't like the game not cuz I play with someone on one account.
If the new player likes the game he will come back. I'm a new player and I like the game, last world I was rimmed but now I'm rimming others rofl
 

Mr. Cringer Pants

Guest
They don't make money from the number of players, only having more accounts - yet their efforts to decrease the necessity of coplaying seem minimal at best.

A couple points:

1.) This game would be horrible for you emotionally and physically if it were not for coplaying.
2.) Inno makes money off the people that dump $1000's into P2W features and the bulk amount of accounts that pay for premium features like premium, FA and AM. The P2W people are to be rimmed mid/late game by players that farm PP for free and know how to actually play the game using in-game actions.

Just my 2 cents.

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