[Guide] - Leading

Galum

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I full heartily agree with EstoyLoco on this, Pervis.

This guide gives a basic overview for newbies about leading a tribe (despite it faults) not something exceptional that leaders of a higher standard could use effectively. If you would write a more in-depth guide about leadership I'd love to read it, but I assume the common player or would-be leader won't.

Speaking of which, go write a more in-depth guide about leadership ;-)
 

DeletedUser

Guest
hrm, might just do that.
If I can garner time and beat off lazyness. :)
 

EstoyLoco

Guest
I will take the time to write a PART of such a guide... but hell its too much thinking to write a full.. first it would be a book to be just a little close to complete... and well wife would crucify me for taking so much time before I finish the book anyway :p
 

DeletedUser

Guest
I will take the time to write a PART of such a guide... but hell its too much thinking to write a full.. first it would be a book to be just a little close to complete... and well wife would crucify me for taking so much time before I finish the book anyway :p

Well, you are crazy.
Do it and don't listen to your wife.

:lol:jk
 

Galum

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Seems like an interesting idea to me hmmf, prehaps some well known leaders could sit together and create such a guide with each ones views on every subject... I like that idea =D
 

DeletedUser

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I dont like the idea at all Galum - reasons - good leaders dont need guides they just learn fast and take the world by storm an indepth guide wont help people because they will follow it word for word and a leader knows when doing the wrong thing is the right thing
 

Galum

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I disagree Minishaw. A true in-depth guide will not be a one you can follow word to word, it'll be most likely many different opinions on a subject.

For example – PnP
We'll have Vpar2's, Bloodhood's, Pervis', Harlos' and EstoyLoco (just throwing names) opinion on good use of PnP followed by examples by each, how each of them views a good PnP post/post progression and so forth.

It'll give everyone a general idea of what each thinks. You wouldn’t be able to follow it "by the book", but you'll learn from it. There will always be better leaders and worse leaders and a good leader will become good with or without reading this guide, but he might just become better or more aware by reading it.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
What you have written here is either wrong, or from very bad personal experience. I wont go into detail about why there are positions made in this game, but there is a fundamental reason for them, and a reason you are unaware of.

So, your telling me that the best tribes don't govern themselves. I had been drinking at the time & was in a rush, but what I said was primarily in the right. Now I don't know about how DNY works and governs, though many of the best communities within this game are so strong due to the fact is everyone is on a level. For example, an aspect this benefits in is recruitment standards. This is due to the tribe usually asks more ppl than merely the leadership. Thus resulting in a larger range of opinions & then you don't have players who sit out; players who don't benefit the tribe. This is an example of them working well.

X{v*} were very proud to have been governed as a democracy and not really having a true leader. The world respected them for this. Another prime example of this would be world 19's Random/24's Kinky/26's Pills/33's Rumble. All of these were top tribes with a powerful presence in the world. And what created such a force? The community governing itself; this meant there were no players on a level above others and there was a wide range of opinions before this. An example of this would be my own interview to be accepted into this little community, I think 10 or more already online selected members had been added into a Skype chat with me & gave me the best (worst for me) interview I had ever been in on an online game.

Are they? Are they really? ESL on what world??? also where is this nomination poll for me to dispute?

This isn't really necessary to the thread, but:
http://forum.tribalwars.net/showpost.php?p=2008102&postcount=1 <- Them being short listed for the final 3 on world 2. Quite an achievement with the turnover of top tribes there.
http://forum.tribalwars.net/showpost.php?p=2012351&postcount=3 <- Tyr Hades explaining with a good level of clarity.
http://forum.tribalwars.net/showpost.php?p=2014935&postcount=11 <- Another example. So, from the first page of that thread there were 4 nominations. With your own tribe not even mentioned.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Well you have plenty of time now that you bailed out on us in W24 :icon_wink:

if you get on skype. I'll explain exactly what hapenned.

Thats unrelated to this discussion.

An example of this would be my own interview to be accepted into this little community, I think 10 or more already online selected members had been added into a Skype chat with me & gave me the best (worst for me) interview I had ever been in on an online game.


I remember that :icon_razz:
 
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owainn

Guest
Leadership cannot be taught in my oppinion.

But the tips would be good for a person at his/her first attempt.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Good guide mate. Should help me for leading in the future :)
 

DeletedUser33413

Guest
Well

5. Overall running of tribe - This COMPLETELY depends from player to player and tbh there are millions of ways to do this and almost all of them can be made successful if played in the right way. But some examples should be added. A small example would be that if you are playing democracy, how important it is to have votes on recruiting players and votes on diplomatic relations with others.. Also include tips on how to use the "council" section as less as possible cuz quite frankly, only COMPLETE noob leaders do their plannings in the council and keep their tribe out of the loop. Spies are something you cannot avoid so NEVER let the fear of spies stop you from involving the tribe in management of the tribe as it would make the players more loyal and more dedicated.


Im not 100% on what you are saying here but think as long as you have put the effort in to involve as many people in the tribe as possible, i mean spend a few days getting to know everyone identify who has abilities etc. Sometimes there are great players just sitting there because nobody has contacted them and they only play a minimail role on the forums.....a leader should answer every post on the forum even if it is trivial and from a member who is maybe not very active or makes a large contribution, other people will recognise it.

I also agree about Spies. I think its better to assume that your tribe does not have spies, as the tribe just grinds to a halt when you try to do everything amongst a few people. If you have a spy then you will find them eventually - unless they are giving bad information away in which case you wont notice it.

But a tribe should not be effected by a spy really, i think if you are doing something well enough then a spy wont make to much difference to the outcome.
 

DeletedUser22586

Guest
So, your telling me that the best tribes don't govern themselves. I had been drinking at the time & was in a rush, but what I said was primarily in the right. Now I don't know about how DNY works and governs, though many of the best communities within this game are so strong due to the fact is everyone is on a level. For example, an aspect this benefits in is recruitment standards. This is due to the tribe usually asks more ppl than merely the leadership. Thus resulting in a larger range of opinions & then you don't have players who sit out; players who don't benefit the tribe. This is an example of them working well.

X{v*} were very proud to have been governed as a democracy and not really having a true leader. The world respected them for this. Another prime example of this would be world 19's Random/24's Kinky/26's Pills/33's Rumble. All of these were top tribes with a powerful presence in the world. And what created such a force? The community governing itself; this meant there were no players on a level above others and there was a wide range of opinions before this. An example of this would be my own interview to be accepted into this little community, I think 10 or more already online selected members had been added into a Skype chat with me & gave me the best (worst for me) interview I had ever been in on an online game.

Ah, Well I have a feeling this isnt a guide on how to make the friendliest tribe, but the most successful. At least thats what Im HOPING this guide is aimed at.

*best tribes to play* doesnt mean "the best tribe on .net" though as you stated. Regardless if it states my tribe or not.

Back to the point, you are mistaking player status with simply good communication. When a player is put in a position to rule over others, this doesnt mean that he is unable to communicate with the rest of the players in the tribe and treat them on the same level. However to assume that a mass tribe democracy is the way forward, is a total waste of time. Xv had players who worked together from world 12, but there was a definite line dividing certain players from others.
How can one player enter a tribe, then make decisions for it 2 years down the line. Its a recipe for disaster. As civilization has taught us, Leaders are there for reasons, to guide others, and to create the figure head. Without this, tribes fall apart. There is nothing wrong with getting a tribes input on certain matters, but you cannot expect a democracy tribe to be able to rule successfully this far on into the game.
All the best tribes will undoubtably have a pack *council* or whatever you wish to call it, making high level decisions and sorting out the top level of tribal matters for the tribe.

And as this is a guide for newer leaders out there, not everyone can be expected to agree, which is why the guide was created from highly successful dukes, and not by everyone. Kinda like how a tribes affairs should be sorted by a council rather than the entire tribe.

Democracy isnt something I would necessarily shun. As it would undoubtably create a much more "enjoyable" experience on this game. But it is not the road for success.
 

EstoyLoco

Guest
Seems like an interesting idea to me hmmf, prehaps some well known leaders could sit together and create such a guide with each ones views on every subject... I like that idea =D

They wouldn't get allong on a guide Galum... Different mentallities... One isn't better than the other... but adaptation as Pervis said is the best.. you don't lead the same way depending on situations... Closest to perfection would be a text called :

Principles of Leadership... maybe leaders could get along on that... It would be an idea...
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Democracy not being a road to success is a highly debatable topic. Let me start my post by asking a hypothetical.

First, what is success? Is it being rank one? In that regard, if this guide is presented as a means to make leaders successful, it is targeting a very small audience (there are currently 35 open worlds), and each world can only have one number 1 tribe.

Moving on, I think its clear that a dictatorship can be successful (the term "success" being used loosely here). It's also been shown in the past to not be successful. The same can go for democracies. Obviously, certain techniques are going to work with different types of people, and fail with others.

You are right that communication is necessary in any tribe, regardless of leadership style. You are also correct that a leader in a dictatorship can communicate with the rest of the players in the tribe, and treat them on the same level. However, notice how I italicized treat. In a perfect dictatorship, there is one guy calling all of the shots. While he can communicate with others, the ultimate decision is his. Let's call this the "far-left" in terms of leadership style. On the "far-right", you have it's exact opposite: the perfect democracy, in which event every person has exactly equal voice in the decisions made by the tribe as a whole. No one person makes the final decision. In between the far-left and the far-right, you have tribes with leadership councils, etc etc.

Assuming all styles of tribe leadership were equally effective in terms of war coordination, diplomacy, etc etc, which would provide the best community atmosphere? Which style would provide an atmosphere where players would want to stay around longer? It is my argument that all things held constant, a democracy would provide a more fun environment, so given the choice between a perfect dictatorship and a perfect democracy, I would choose the latter.

Admittedly, a democracy will be harder to pull off due to it needing a higher player compatibility. Different types of players will thrive in a well-oiled democracy then those in a dictatorship. Making the assumption that a mass-tribe democracy is a waste of time based on this fact however, in my mind, is a large stretch.

We can all play the "history has taught us game". I can point to tons of city-states, countries, and empires that have all failed under the regime of a dictator. If you'd notice, many countries in the world base their governments on a representative democracy because of the fact that a true democracy just wouldn't work due to logistics (ie, extremely high populations make it un-feasible to operate effectively).

Tribal Wars on the other hand typically has smaller tribe populations then countries have civilian populations. Essentially, the smaller the population limit, the more feasible a democracy becomes.

Now, based on all of this, I can only agree with Inuyuki's original assessment that this focuses on a certain niche. That doesn't mean its necessarily bad. While an ok enough read, different people are going to agree to it to varying degrees, and you have to expect that when presenting a Guide to Leading that only focuses on one dimension of it.
 

Typhi

Guest
They wouldn't get allong on a guide Galum... Different mentallities... One isn't better than the other... but adaptation as Pervis said is the best.. you don't lead the same way depending on situations... Closest to perfection would be a text called :

Principles of Leadership... maybe leaders could get along on that... It would be an idea...


In the best tribes that I have been a part of, the "leader" did not really have to lead at all, the tribe would run itself. Of course, decisions still have to be made, but in this role the "leader" was more deserving of the title Guide than anything else.

In my opinion, a leader has done his job best when tribal decisions get made quickly and members get along well enough to work together optimally. Each leader has his own way of achieving this, and that is why there will never be a decent 'Principles of Leadership', at least not one applicable also at the higher levels of this game.
 
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EstoyLoco

Guest
I do believe... and as Qwerty said the population of that study is quite limited due to value we bring to success... although to me a respected tribe is successful.. may it be respected for his strenght to fight or the quality of the expansion... and so on...

I think we can compare TW to real world on the leadership side as we are humans playing a game... same psychologic profiles come up and it is a small community by itself..

I do believe that in a really general view... The type that had the biggest % of "success" over the attempts would be a Dictatoship hidden behind democracy...

Members among the tribe need to feel its a Democracy.. psychologically someone will feel implicated and dedicated to something (work, tribe whatever) when they have a power of decision... Although as when you work in real life.. you may decide many things and provide your input... There is always someone up your head that has a veto... that can kick you if you make a mistake and so on...

Someone not feeling any power up their head would actually not be productive and wouldn't work for the team as it is in human's nature if you do read books. It is also a principle of management that comeback in mostly every school of managament.

I still believe a tribe has to be run like a business :D

Estoy
 
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