Bo-John-bo
Guest
They didn't just agree on a NAP, they came crawling for one :lol:
Terrible decision as it let us noble out more of the world whilst they continued to eat one another
They didn't just agree on a NAP, they came crawling for one :lol:
Terrible decision as it let us noble out more of the world whilst they continued to eat one another
DeletedUser
Guest
LOL yeh big difference to them agreeing to a NAP to them actually begging for one. That was in my opinion the worse spot we'd been in when Stop! and Khan teamed up together against us... Plenty of our Khan front vills were supporting Stop! front villas so we had to do a lot of defense shuffling within the week time notice they gave us plus what support Royale provided us. Tbh I'm still scratching my head as to why they asked for a NAP.. They managed to even the playing field for the first time against us since it was easy to assume Royale wasn't gonna get involve offensively since their defense were in our fronts and Stop! still had their big active accounts back then.. ShadowMasta, Vemork, etc. It "may" have been possible for them to have a chance at turning things around. That NAP they asked for basically signed their death on this world. Worst diplomatic decision in TW history I have ever witnessed. Gave us plenty of breathing room and even gave us chance to internal m4r71n account that was struggling at the time.
DeletedUser107718
Guest
I am chocked the NAP held for as long as it did. Khan was really quite bad although individual players had certain skill.
DeletedUser
Guest
We always had the intention to finish what they started when they cancelled the first NAP.. we just needed to buy more time to finish off more Stop! and Ghost players while Khan was happy to sideline themselves and eat each other. Few things of course they've done that pissed us off to start with that prevented any good relation is when they recruited Keegi, then Lord Haseo, then SezU.. all of these were Venus refugees. Then some rude mails from them during cross nobles on players that W2V worked hard to kill(Vemork, Alex, Tallandsincere, inthefog, Vigilante, etc) only for Khan to jump in and think they deserve the villas just because they are running out of accounts to cannibalize within their tribe. All of these we had to tolerate in exchange for buying time til we're actually ready to make them pay for it... Its why its oh so sweet the way things are going now since this has been a long term plan all along.
That right there Kultigin, is what you call a good leadership that knows how to handle diplomacy, how to run a proper end game plan and how to manipulate events to give us the final upper hand.. sure you guys got your way every now and then but hey we only gave you a taste of the icing.. its actually us thats gonna eat the whole cake
That right there Kultigin, is what you call a good leadership that knows how to handle diplomacy, how to run a proper end game plan and how to manipulate events to give us the final upper hand.. sure you guys got your way every now and then but hey we only gave you a taste of the icing.. its actually us thats gonna eat the whole cake
DeletedUser105718
Guest
Manipulate what events?
W2V is a nice tribe, though please stop bullshiting about them being diplomatically superior to any other tribe on the world.
DeletedUser
Guest
But im not bullshitting.. we are diplomatically superior to any other tribe on this world. How are you gonna prove it otherwise? We've got the result to back that up...
DeletedUser105718
Guest
I'd call it blind luck. Which is exactly what happened. :lol:
You winning has nothing to do with diplomacy what so ever, it has everything to do with every other tribe being complete utter garbage.
DeletedUser
Guest
I cant argue about other tribes being garbage. Luck played a part in it like Al disbanding Venus twice... that we had absolutely nothing to do with. But is it luck that we won the first no haul w56 and decided to play w71 the second no haul in search of our second win? Is that all "blind luck" ? :lol:
And Diplomacy has a lot to do with how we got to the position we're in now... I was in W2V council... I know this.. we've had plenty of hard decisions where council was split on decision nevertheless we always manage to come as one and make the right one. I have won three end games and I was in council in all three... I suppose thats also part of the blind luck? :lol:
You probably have another tribe in mind as to whos more superior to us diplomatically.. Come out with it come on Humor us
And Diplomacy has a lot to do with how we got to the position we're in now... I was in W2V council... I know this.. we've had plenty of hard decisions where council was split on decision nevertheless we always manage to come as one and make the right one. I have won three end games and I was in council in all three... I suppose thats also part of the blind luck? :lol:
You probably have another tribe in mind as to whos more superior to us diplomatically.. Come out with it come on
Humor us DeletedUser
Guest
If it wasn't for being disbanded and all the internal problems, tribes like Venus would most probably have been able to perform better on the diplomatic frontline.Correct me if I'm wrong, but W1V and all the tribes it split into and was recreated into probably put almost all the diplomatic effort into internal communication and keeping the different groups of players within the tribe together. Attempts at diplomacy with Khan was made thought, but didn't work out so well which I will explain below.
Khan wanted to fight alone to win and not depend on several allies, which I think wasn't due to it being a decision that had to be made, but due to it being something like a "principle to live with" (dunno how to put it into better words, lol). Khan had some NAPs mostly, but it was more to secure their borders and cooperation with other tribes wasn't really there imo.
There was 1 joint OP, but it didn't work out very well, which probably was both sides fault to some degree and well, it was the first OP, so thinking back, having very high hopes for a very successful OP right away probably isn't real, but Khan decided to focus on their own fighting after that.
Anyway, to get to the point, diplomacy was one of Khans weak spots.
W2V were the opposite of Khan when it comes to diplomacy since they relied on allies and support of different kinds to gain an advantage. I think the conflict between RoyalE and Khan made it easier for them to ally RoyalE. Stuff like this made it easier for W2V to abuse diplomacy as a tool to help win the world. So yeah, other tribes probably made diplomacy easier for W2V. For W2V to take the obvious and easy decisions on the diplomatic frontline, doesn't make them better then average tribes on other worlds, but nevertheless, I too think they probably were superior on the diplomatic frontline because other tribes screwed up for themselves in different ways. It's similar to how the other tribes screwed up on the recruitment and giving W2V a group of good Contra players as an example when the Contra war ended.
I don't know what happened with Khan now. But I will try to go on skype and investigate as soon as I can.
Khan wanted to fight alone to win and not depend on several allies, which I think wasn't due to it being a decision that had to be made, but due to it being something like a "principle to live with" (dunno how to put it into better words, lol). Khan had some NAPs mostly, but it was more to secure their borders and cooperation with other tribes wasn't really there imo.
There was 1 joint OP, but it didn't work out very well, which probably was both sides fault to some degree and well, it was the first OP, so thinking back, having very high hopes for a very successful OP right away probably isn't real, but Khan decided to focus on their own fighting after that.
Anyway, to get to the point, diplomacy was one of Khans weak spots.
W2V were the opposite of Khan when it comes to diplomacy since they relied on allies and support of different kinds to gain an advantage. I think the conflict between RoyalE and Khan made it easier for them to ally RoyalE. Stuff like this made it easier for W2V to abuse diplomacy as a tool to help win the world. So yeah, other tribes probably made diplomacy easier for W2V. For W2V to take the obvious and easy decisions on the diplomatic frontline, doesn't make them better then average tribes on other worlds, but nevertheless, I too think they probably were superior on the diplomatic frontline because other tribes screwed up for themselves in different ways. It's similar to how the other tribes screwed up on the recruitment and giving W2V a group of good Contra players as an example when the Contra war ended.
I don't know what happened with Khan now. But I will try to go on skype and investigate as soon as I can.
Deleted User - 11521651
Guest
W65 was the second no-haul.
Hooray! I made a contribution to the discussion! This is a momentous occasion.
DeletedUser
Guest
The first disbanding disrupted Venus' OP on runningbullet and the second disband caused key players like Rathi Smurf and DJ Freddy to split off from the rest, Having said that.. If the leadership was strong like W2V's then the disbands shouldn't have affected Venus' ability to "perform better on the diplomatic frontline". W2V was disbanded in w56 and yet within 24 hours we all regrouped and continued just where we left off and thrashed the enemy... Dont know if thats also part of the blind luck SlowThinker was talking about.
"focus on their own fighting" is this another phrase for cannibalizing each other coz thats what they exactly did after they got the NAP they begged for. lol
Also we didnt "rely" on our allies alone to support us. We have been working with ISO and UWR from the start. Just like Khan has an academy tribe and just like how Ghost and BORG was working with Venus who at the time was almost twice our size. So you mention our allies what about the allies/academy Venus and Khan had?
Oh and you said this.. (bolded bits)
And i said this...(bolded bits)
See how you just tried to sneak in a lil change of important detail there to try to completely change my argument against SlowThinker? Good try buddy :lol:
"focus on their own fighting"
is this another phrase for cannibalizing each other coz thats what they exactly did after they got the NAP they begged for. lolAlso we didnt "rely" on our allies alone to support us. We have been working with ISO and UWR from the start. Just like Khan has an academy tribe and just like how Ghost and BORG was working with Venus who at the time was almost twice our size. So you mention our allies what about the allies/academy Venus and Khan had?
Oh and you said this.. (bolded bits)
And i said this...(bolded bits)
See how you just tried to sneak in a lil change of important detail there to try to completely change my argument against SlowThinker? Good try buddy :lol:
DeletedUser104264
Guest
Where to begin.
First, Saunfree has always provided valuable insight to the happens of the world. Going against his recommendation at a critical moment is usually bad. Well, I cannot say for sure, because I think I usually listen.
Our diplomacy was good because we matched it with what we could handle in the battlefield. Wedidn;t push our diplomacy where we could not back it up.
UWR and ISO were intentional allies since the beginning of this world. They are team players. That's what wins worlds.
We managed to keep the many tribes power in balance by shifting our position in the world. First we warred Contra and then we allied them and eventually merged them. Along the way we kept BAD and Apathy out of our hair for the most part by holding a battle line with MoM and Contra to where they did not wish to attack us. MoM and Contra attacked Bad and Apathy instead.
The potential war with Illuminati could have made us lose, but it would have also made Illuminati lose and Contra lose as well. Again, balance of power.
We left Illuminati alone early on and attacked Naruto who was with Khan who in turn was with Venus.
Around the same time we pursued an alliance with Royale to sure up the strength of the east versus the west side of the world.
Thus, while many people were concerned with the 30th-40th village they were gonna noble, diplomatically we had the progression of the world mapped out. And it went pretty close to that map except that Venus fell much more easily than anticipated.
DeletedUser
Guest
I missed this one hmmmmm.. im offended you think I'd lose a single villa to you lot in all honesty... but since ur my tribemate ill play nice
I'm back now koss, you got nowhere to hide
DeletedUser
Guest
Side 1:
Tribes: W2V
Side 2:
Tribes: Khan, Khan!
Players: Namaz, KeegiKolmas, Khagan
Timeframe: Last week
Total conquers against opposite side:
Side 1: 604
Side 2: 13
Difference: 591
Points value of total conquers against opposite side:
Side 1: 5,639,704
Side 2: 117,755
Difference: 5,521,949
Tribes: W2V
Side 2:
Tribes: Khan, Khan!
Players: Namaz, KeegiKolmas, Khagan
Timeframe: Last week
Total conquers against opposite side:
Side 1: 604
Side 2: 13
Difference: 591
Points value of total conquers against opposite side:
Side 1: 5,639,704
Side 2: 117,755
Difference: 5,521,949
DeletedUser
Guest
"focus on their own fighting"
I'm talking about before the NAP was made.
I never said you relied on your allies alone. I said you relied on them to get an advantage. Go back and read again.
When I talk about Khan, I include Khan 2, sorry if I'm confusing you a bit. Thought, beside Khan 2 which was a small academy tribe, Khan didn't have any real allies they relied on. W2V had ISO, UWR, RoyalE and you can't compare those 3 alone to Khan 2, the difference is too big.
Also, never said Venus didn't have any allies. I only said they were suffering from internal problems which made it harder to focus on a working diplomacy.
Wasn't my intetnion to change your argument somehow. Just wanted to make a statement bsed on my own opinion. Sorry if it sounded like something else. :icon_rolleyes:
Btw, any update on how things are going ingame or is it just "clean-up" nobling free villages and ending the world? :icon_confused:
DeletedUser
Guest
I really had hoped for more in this war, Honestly khan is by far the easiest we have ever faced,
Stats to back it up, And i might add the war has not even been going a full week yet....
Side 1:
Tribes: W2V
Side 2:
Tribes: Khan
Players: Namaz, Khagan, KeegiKolmas
Timeframe: Last week
Total conquers:
Total conquers against opposite side:
Side 1: 609
Side 2: 13
Difference: 596
Points value of total conquers against opposite side:
Side 1: 5,700,574
Side 2: 116,740
Difference: 5,583,834
Stats to back it up, And i might add the war has not even been going a full week yet....
Side 1:
Tribes: W2V
Side 2:
Tribes: Khan
Players: Namaz, Khagan, KeegiKolmas
Timeframe: Last week
Total conquers:
Total conquers against opposite side:
Side 1: 609
Side 2: 13
Difference: 596
Points value of total conquers against opposite side:
Side 1: 5,700,574
Side 2: 116,740
Difference: 5,583,834
DeletedUser
Guest
Im just glad you added this bit at the end coz everything you posted are just that... based on your own opinion. You're not in ISO or UWR or W2V to even know how exactly we do and manage things.
Just wanna update kultigin that our social life is flourishing. Hows yours?
enjoying the sits? Please don't quit on us like the rest of your minions.. would be really disappointing DeletedUser
Guest
W2V allied Pest, ISO, UWR and RoyalE. Khan allied Khan 2 (their small academy tribe, can be compared to Pest) and had some minor cooperation with Venus/W1V/"insert other names they had here", which wasn't any cooperation you would expect between allies since it was almost non-exsistent as we all know. Thus W2V relied more on allies, while Khan (+ Khan 2) preferred to stick to themselves.
That's just a fact and has nothing to do with which tribe I used to play in before I quit this world. I never made a statement about how I know how the leaders in W2V or any otehr tribe think and act. I'm not a mind-reader you know... :icon_eek:
DeletedUser
Guest
Side 1:
Tribes: Ghost, Khan
Players: KeegiKolmas, Khagan, Namaz
Side 2:
Tribes: W2V
Timeframe: Last week
Total conquers:
Side 1: 378
Side 2: 1,417
Difference: 1,039
Total conquers against opposite side:
Side 1: 19
Side 2: 876
Difference: 857
Points value of total conquers:
Side 1: 3,129,392
Side 2: 13,084,021
Difference: 9,954,629
Points value of total conquers against opposite side:
Side 1: 172,084
Side 2: 8,030,425
Difference: 7,858,341
:icon_wink:
Tribes: Ghost, Khan
Players: KeegiKolmas, Khagan, Namaz
Side 2:
Tribes: W2V
Timeframe: Last week
Total conquers:
Side 1: 378
Side 2: 1,417
Difference: 1,039
Total conquers against opposite side:
Side 1: 19
Side 2: 876
Difference: 857
Points value of total conquers:
Side 1: 3,129,392
Side 2: 13,084,021
Difference: 9,954,629
Points value of total conquers against opposite side:
Side 1: 172,084
Side 2: 8,030,425
Difference: 7,858,341
:icon_wink:
DeletedUser
Guest
And yet you use statements like "Thats just a fact" then you back yourself up with the statement above :lol:
This discussion about allies and blah blah has been flogged like a dead horse time and time again on these forums. So this is the last time ill reply to you about this since its really pointless discussing it now when it had been discussed 50 million times before... Khan , Khan 2, Venus, Ghost, some BORG - all of these were friends/allied at some point. W2V was much smaller than Venus back then.. The size difference was almost double at some point that it doesn't matter if you posted ISO, UWR and Pest together it still didnt match to the firepower Venus had back then. It only sounds A LOT because they are formed in different separate tribes but for example ISO and Pest never really had much... A lot of players mostly very small players. Khan and Venus together was a firepower.. Their weak leaderships though didn't realise the amount of resources they had to put us away.
Anyone else starting to really get mixed messages here?
Yes our allies were there to help. Newsflash : Thats what allies are for
You're not telling us anything we didn't know before. Venus and Khan were allies.. Its not our problem they couldn't get their shit together neither should that take anything away from the teamwork we had with our allies, who we've had the relation with from the very start.So in conclusion, W2V had more allies perhaps but its not as inbalanced as you make it sound.. We're just better at using the resources we have at our disposal to get the job done.
