Religious Debate Thread

DeletedUser

Guest
Noticed a bunch of people arguing on a thread that was dedicated to offering prayers/sentiments to the military dead of recent years. Sort of off-topic and spammy, not to mention very disrespectful.

King Geldwolf has a thread for this here:

http://forum.tribalwars.net/showthread.php?t=173579

Please base your arguments there, because as someone who has lost someone in a war I feel it is disrespectful to argue in a thread dedicated to their memory. Basically like going to a memorial service and having a raging row :)

Thanks guys :)

Mod can lock this now, just wanted to make sure people saw this - thought my post would get lost in their argument :)
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Or, we can just hijack this thread and use it. :icon_biggrin:

indi23 said:
I never said that.. And pyker you fail to understand that there's a gap between man and god that cannot be filled with good deeds alone.. You need to accept Jesus into your life. (nod)
Click to expand...

You fail to understand the insanity of the only requirement to get into heaven being that of accepting Jesus as your savior.

Any person can repent on their deathbed, including me. How that requirement supersedes the actual doings in one's life as the measure of the goodness of a person (since good people go to heaven and bad people go to hell, right?) is, again, one of the biggest problems I have with organized religion in general, and Christianity in particular.
 
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DeletedUser

Guest
Pyker, you won't change your views, nor me mine. Pointless much?
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Reaction after reading the thread "God Vs Darwin."


My Identity: I am Hasan, 20 years old and I am a follower of the last Abrahamic Religion "Islam"

Please Note That here I will write that what I do believe. I am not degrading or criticizing anybody or any specific religion. I do believe that the cores of all the religions are good.

Now let me tell you my story that I learned from my last 20 year's study on religion and self thinking.

Religions, especially Abrahamic Religions are like a chain.

This trend started from Judaism. Moses(pbuH) introduced this religion. Human being was sent to this earth by God. But there were no proper rules and regulations which will be followed by human being. So, God decided to send a messenger and sent Moses (pbuH). Moses(pbuH) brought Torah for us.

You will find that 10 Commandments were authored by God and given to Moses on the mountain referred to as Mount Sinai. And They are recognized as a moral foundation in Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

Then after the death of Moses(pbuH), the world became unstable again. People involved in serious crimes. As God has mercy on us then God decided to send another one prophet.

Then we got Jesus(pbuH). And Jesus introduced Christianity. Jesus (pbuH) brought Bible. Bible was the updated version of Torah as Christianity was the updated version of Judaism. Jesus (pbuH) invited all Jews people to accept the latest edition. But some of them refused to accept the true religion of God and then as we(Muslims) believe that Jesus was condemned to crucifixion and then miraculously saved by Allah (God). But Christianity became the new true religion of the world and as we have seen that Christians increased drastically and the rate was very high.

After almost 600 years of Jesus (pbuH) it has been seen that the original Bible has lost. Few people have written down Bible and the situation of the world became worst again.

Then God decided to send the final messenger and He was Muhammad (pbuH).

Muhammad (pbuH) brought Islam to us.

Islam and Christianity share their origins in the Abrahamic tradition, as does Judaism. Islam accepts many aspects of Christianity as part of its faith - sometimes with differences in interpretation. As we believe Islam is just the updated version of Christianity. In Holy Quran you will find many quotations regarding Judaism and Christianity.

Now Have a look on the Picture: It shows the prevalence of Abrahamic (pink) and Eastern Religion (yellow) in each country.

[spoil]
Abraham_Dharma.png
[/spoil]

Lets Come to the topic: "Why God Exists"?

Friends,

Just imagine that more than 90% Human Being can not do the same mistake. Isn't it?

Look at the Moon, Star, Sun, Galaxi.... These can not be created automatically, isn't it?

Just think, when u were 6 months or 1 year old, then can u recall any memory that happened on that time? I am sure the answer will be No. Just like that our soul was existing and we are sent to this earth for few days (like: max 100 yrs). But we can not recall any memory of our that life.

As this truth, it is also true that we will die but our soul will not. Good people's soul will get Heaven and bad people's soul will get Hell.

As it was mentioned in the thread God vs Darwin that how can old religions shows us the proper ways?

Well... I would like to say: Read Torah then Bible and Holy Quran. I am sure, after reading Torah you will come up with some questions and in Bible u will get the answers. Again after reading Bible you will want to know something more and you will get answers in Holy Quran.

I have personally read Holy Quran and now I do believe that Only God can write these kind of Books. I also came up with a conclusion that to lead life till Dooms Day, This Holy Quran is enough to lead Human Being.

If you have any confusion then you can read it.

Finally I would say that it sounds insane if somebody says God does not exist. My personal suggestion to them is: THINK, THINK and THINK. You will get the answer. God created our brain like this so that we can understand that God exists.

That's all of my Lecture......

:p

Sorry for bothering you........

Have a Very Good Day...........


--
Hasan
​
 
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DeletedUser

Guest
Major-Hasan said:
Reaction after reading the thread "God Vs Darwin."


My Identity: I am Hasan, 20 years old and I am a follower of the last Abrahamic Religion "Islam"

Please Note That here I will write that what I do believe. I am not degrading or criticizing anybody or any specific religion. I do believe that the cores of all the religions are good.

Now let me tell you my story that I learned from my last 20 year's study on religion and self thinking.

Religions, especially Abrahamic Religions are like a chain.

This trend started from Judaism. Moses(pbuH) introduced this religion. Human being was sent to this earth by God. But there were no proper rules and regulations which will be followed by human being. So, God decided to send a messenger and sent Moses (pbuH). Moses(pbuH) brought Torah for us.

You will find that 10 Commandments were authored by God and given to Moses on the mountain referred to as Mount Sinai. And They are recognized as a moral foundation in Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

Then after the death of Moses(pbuH), the world became unstable again. People involved in serious crimes. As God has mercy on us then God decided to send another one prophet.

Then we got Jesus(pbuH). And Jesus introduced Christianity. Jesus (pbuH) brought Bible. Bible was the updated version of Torah as Christianity was the updated version of Judaism. Jesus (pbuH) invited all Jews people to accept the latest edition. But some of them refused to accept the true religion of God and then as we(Muslims) believe that Jesus was condemned to crucifixion and then miraculously saved by Allah (God). But Christianity became the new true religion of the world and as we have seen that Christians increased drastically and the rate was very high.

After almost 600 years of Jesus (pbuH) it has been seen that the original Bible has lost. Few people have written down Bible and the situation of the world became worst again.

Then God decided to send the final messenger and He was Muhammad (pbuH).

Muhammad (pbuH) brought Islam to us.

Islam and Christianity share their origins in the Abrahamic tradition, as does Judaism. Islam accepts many aspects of Christianity as part of its faith - sometimes with differences in interpretation. As we believe Islam is just the updated version of Christianity. In Holy Quran you will find many quotations regarding Judaism and Christianity.

Now Have a look on the Picture: It shows the prevalence of Abrahamic (pink) and Eastern Religion (yellow) in each country.

[spoil]
Abraham_Dharma.png
[/spoil]​
Click to expand...

Just some things I would like to point out. I would have expected you to know that God brought Judaism into being through Abraham(hence the term, Abrahamic religions) not Moses. Moses is the one He chose to lead the Jews out of slavery in Egypt.

Another point, Jesus didn't bring the Bible. None of the stories in the New Testament were written during Jesus' lifetime. They were all written after his death.

Further, it wasn't until the late 4th century that the New Testament and the Bible were formed by a council of church leaders and the current Roman Emperor in the Council of Nicea. Until that point, the many sects of Christianity all taught their own version. That was the time of the Nogstics.

Major-Hasan said:
Lets Come to the topic: "Why God Exists"?

Friends,

Just imagine that more than 90% Human Being can not do the same mistake. Isn't it?

Look at the Moon, Star, Sun, Galaxi.... These can not be created automatically, isn't it?
Click to expand...
These can not be created "automatically" because it is physically impossible for that to occur? Or is it just simply that you can not fathom the possibility that nothing more than random chance coalesced into the Universe as we know it today?

Major-Hasan said:
Just think, when u were 6 months or 1 year old, then can u recall any memory that happened on that time? I am sure the answer will be No. Just like that our soul was existing and we are sent to this earth for few days (like: max 100 yrs). But we can not recall any memory of our that life.
Click to expand...
I'm not exactly sure what point you are trying to make here.

Major-Hasan said:
As it was mentioned in the thread God vs Darwin that how can old religions shows us the proper ways?

Well... I would like to say: Read Torah then Bible and Holy Quran. I am sure, after reading Torah you will come up with some questions and in Bible u will get the answers. Again after reading Bible you will want to know something more and you will get answers in Holy Quran.
Click to expand...
So, where are the answers to the questions you come up with after reading the Quran?

Major-Hasan said:
I have personally read Holy Quran and now I do believe that Only God can write these kind of Books. I also came up with a conclusion that to lead life till Dooms Day, This Holy Quran is enough to lead Human Being.
Click to expand...
If you knew the story as to how the Bible, in its modern form, was decided upon, your assumption that only God could write books like that would be badly shaken.

Fact of the matter is, men decided as to whether or not Jesus was Divine, one of the biggest tenants of Christianity. Laws laid down in the Old Testament were extremely harsh and not the sign of a loving, merciful God.

Major-Hasan said:
Finally I would say that it sounds insane if somebody says God does not exist. My personal suggestion to them is: THINK, THINK and THINK. You will get the answer. God created our brain like this so that we can understand that God exists.
Click to expand...
I have thought about it. A lot, as a matter of fact. And to me, it is more insane to believe in God than it is to not believe in God. You know why? There is not one shred of physical evidence to support the existence of a higher power.​
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Major-Hasan said:
Just imagine that more than 90% Human Being can not do the same mistake. Isn't it?​
Click to expand...

Are you trying to say that 90% of Humans are all the same religion?

Like you said - You have Christians, Muslims, Jews etc - they can't ALL be right. If anything, 99% of the world is probably WRONG :p

Plus, there is MASSIVE physical evidence for evolution and ABSOLUTELY ZERO for religion. People are religious because they are selfish and arrogant. Selfish because they dont want to have to choose their own fate, they just blame it on God, let God do it, its in God's hands etc. Arrogant because they believe humans are too important to just end. They are scared to die, and want to believe they live forever.

Quite sad really.

But I suppose its like a child with a safety blanky :p

And like a child with a safety blanky, when you question their logic they throw a big tantrum :p
 

DeletedUser19130

Guest
pyker42 said:
Just some things I would like to point out. I would have expected you to know that God brought Judaism into being through Abraham(hence the term, Abrahamic religions) not Moses. Moses is the one He chose to lead the Jews out of slavery in Egypt.

Another point, Jesus didn't bring the Bible. None of the stories in the New Testament were written during Jesus' lifetime. They were all written after his death.

Further, it wasn't until the late 4th century that the New Testament and the Bible were formed by a council of church leaders and the current Roman Emperor in the Council of Nicea. Until that point, the many sects of Christianity all taught their own version. That was the time of the Nogstics.

These can not be created "automatically" because it is physically impossible for that to occur? Or is it just simply that you can not fathom the possibility that nothing more than random chance coalesced into the Universe as we know it today?

I'm not exactly sure what point you are trying to make here.

So, where are the answers to the questions you come up with after reading the Quran?

If you knew the story as to how the Bible, in its modern form, was decided upon, your assumption that only God could write books like that would be badly shaken.

Fact of the matter is, men decided as to whether or not Jesus was Divine, one of the biggest tenants of Christianity. Laws laid down in the Old Testament were extremely harsh and not the sign of a loving, merciful God.

I have thought about it. A lot, as a matter of fact. And to me, it is more insane to believe in God than it is to not believe in God. You know why? There is not one shred of physical evidence to support the existence of a higher power.
Click to expand...


Wow. Pyker. I have always like you before, but this post only confirmed what I already thought. You took the words out of my mouth. Just a couple things to note.

Way before the Council of Nicea the dominant christian sect were the Gnostics... Not sure if that is what you meant to write when you wrote Nogstics, but thought I would let you know the correct spelling. Through the power of "Gnosis" or "Wisdom" they believe they were saved. The story of christ to them was nothing more than an allegorical story, but of course one they cherished. Not until a very small sect in rome, that in time became the roman catholic church, came about and instead of believing in a allegorical savior, they preached a literal savior... Nearly 250 years AFTER Christianity was supposedly created.

If anyone would like to research more on the Gnostics you can look up the Nag Hammadi library. Those scrolls predate any of the books in the Bible, and also predate the accepted date of Jesus's birth. These were some of the original texts from these "Gnostic" Christians.

I would highly advise anyone reading this to do some research into this. The books you'll read and the things you will learn can only help you in your life, the Gnostics definitely had some very good insights into the human condition.
 
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DeletedUser

Guest
KingJame$. said:
Wow. Pyker. I have always like you before, but this post only confirmed what I already thought. You took the words out of my mouth. Just a couple things to note.

Way before the Council of Nicea the dominant christian sect were the Gnostics... Not sure if that is what you meant to write when you wrote Nogstics, but thought I would let you know the correct spelling. Through the power of "Gnosis" or "Wisdom" they believe they were saved. The story of christ to them was nothing more than an allegorical story, but of course one they cherished. Not until a very small sect in rome, that in time became the roman catholic church, came about and instead of believing in a allegorical savior, they preached a literal savior... Nearly 250 years AFTER Christianity was supposedly created.

If anyone would like to research more on the Gnostics you can look up the Nag Hammadi library. Those scrolls predate any of the books in the Bible, and also predate the accepted date of Jesus's birth. These were some of the original texts from these "Gnostic" Christians.

I would highly advise anyone reading this to do some research into this. The books you'll read and the things you will learn can only help you in your life, the Gnostics definitely had some very good insights into the human condition.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that was a brain fart. I meant Gnostics.

And they weren't even a real organized sect, they were just a bunch of local "churches" who taught Christianity in their own way.

As for the Catholic Church, that was just the beginning of a long strand of abuses they have been responsible for.
 

DeletedUser19130

Guest
Yea... I could go on for hours and hours and hours about the evil that the Roman Catholic Church, and organized Christianity in general, has brought upon this world.

Yes, Gnostics had their own schools of knowledge. Many times they would each have their own allegorical stories of Jesus as well, but they all believe in the same basic principle... Salvation through Gnosis. NOT salvation by accepting some external entity to come into you and then poof... saved. Galatians even speaks about us working out our OWN salvation. The main thing I believe that separates Gnostics from organized Christianity, other then all the obvious reasons, is the fact that where organized Christianity believes humans to be inherently evil, Gnostics believe the opposite. We are inherently good, but through being born into the flesh we have been tainted by this world. The greed, the lust, the hurt, the pain, and all the horrible things that happen in life.

Anyway, I am going to stop speaking before I offend someone.... lol
 
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DeletedUser

Guest
Well... It was my bad. Actually you know... the whole thing is so much complicated ..... and difficult for us (we full time students and part time workers) to understand all the parts of religion.

But regarding this point my personal opinion is: It was not Bible actually, it was Injil or Gospel, I generally believe the Gospelhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel or the New Testament to have been corrupted over time. I also hold the view that the Injil is a lost bookhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_book, different from the New Testament which was either written by the apostles or people connected to them.
 
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