Religious Debate Thread

[DeletedUser]

I was kidding, lol. Plus, there is no way Scientology or Mormonism are Christian.

Wait, you are saying that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints isn't Christian? :icon_confused:

I almost wish protestantism had never happened. At least then the vast majority of religions would be able to be generalized. It's only Christians who can have the same name on 200 churches in a town and they all hate each other.

Reminds me of that Emo Phillips bit:

I said, "Are you a Christian or a Jew?"
He said, "A Christian."
I said, "Me too. Protestant or Catholic?"
He said, "Protestant."
I said, "Me too! What franchise?"
He says, "Baptist."
I said, "Me too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?"
He says, "Northern Baptist."
I said, "Me too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?"
He says, "Northern Conservative Baptist."
I say, "Me too! Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist or Northern Conservative Reform Baptist?"
He says, "Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist."
I say, "Me too! Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist Great Lakes Region or Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist Eastern Region?"
He says, "Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist Great Lakes Region."
I say, "Me too! Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879 or Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?"
He says, "Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912."
I said, "Die, heretic!" And I pushed him over!

 

[DeletedUser]

Wait, you are saying that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints isn't Christian? :icon_confused:

Firstly, that quote from Emo Phillips is actually very accurate as to what goes on. Its rather humorous and as I admitted petty but... It makes me laugh.

As for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and their status as "Christian." Not even close. They believe in salvation by works, rather than salvation by faith, which is very much against Biblical teachings. The Bible teaches that we are, "Saved by grace, not by works, so that no one can boast." That does not mean we are not supposed to do good works, its just not required for salvation.

Quite literally, Gandhi could be in hell while a Mass Murderer goes to heaven.

So why is the Christian religion so great at motivating people to do good works? Because of the joy we receive in knowing God has already done for us what we cannot do, and because of the love Jesus showed us on the cross, we should pass that on as well.

 

[DeletedUser]

Firstly, that quote from Emo Phillips is actually very accurate as to what goes on. Its rather humorous and as I admitted petty but... It makes me laugh.

I know how true it is. Thats what makes it so funny.

As for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and their status as "Christian." Not even close. They believe in salvation by works, rather than salvation by faith, which is very much against Biblical teachings. The Bible teaches that we are, "Saved by grace, not by works, so that no one can boast." That does not mean we are not supposed to do good works, its just not required for salvation.

Not to sound rude, or anything, but don't you think you are a little bit biased to be making that call? Just because they have a differing view than the Christian norm doesn't mean they aren't Christian. Hell the Bible contradicts itself in quite a few places. Don't get me started on the fact that the Bible is a compilation of stories agreed upon by men nearly 400 years after the death of Christ. They believe in Jesus as the Son of God and revere Him, therefore they are Christian.

And as for salvation through works, its funny how nonsensical they are, yet when it comes to salvation, their doctrine makes more sens than that of any other Christian sect.

Quite literally, Gandhi could be in hell while a Mass Murderer goes to heaven.

I am well aware of that. Thats damn near the top of my list of reasons why I dislike Christianity in general.

So why is the Christian religion so great at motivating people to do good works? Because of the joy we receive in knowing God has already done for us what we cannot do, and because of the love Jesus showed us on the cross, we should pass that on as well.

Sounds a lot like why the Mormons are pretty happy as well. :icon_wink:

 

[DeletedUser]

I understand how unusual the idea of grace is in religion, only the Jews and Christians believe this, but that doesn't make the Mormons more Christian. I also understand why a person could and maybe even should hate that. Unfortunately, if Gandhi went to heaven, God would be violating his free will. Something he does not do. I do entertain the thought that God is in fact above the laws that he made, and maybe, Just Maybe, he has one or two exceptions in heaven.

The only reason Mormons try to identify themselves as Christian is as a marketing move so they can get more people to become Mormon.

But in truth, they have different books, different teachings, different history, and they simply aren't Christian.

Also, religion as a majority produces joy and happiness, however the non-grace based religions also have a minority which will be pre-dominantly motivated by fear. This happened in the Christian church, although for the most part, they were preaching believe or die to people who believed, and if they went as far as to say be good or die, that would be against the teachings of the Bible.

 

[DeletedUser]

I understand how unusual the idea of grace is in religion, only the Jews and Christians believe this, but that doesn't make the Mormons more Christian. I also understand why a person could and maybe even should hate that. Unfortunately, if Gandhi went to heaven, God would be violating his free will. Something he does not do. I do entertain the thought that God is in fact above the laws that he made, and maybe, Just Maybe, he has one or two exceptions in heaven.

I never said Mormons were more Christian. I said their doctrine of salvation through works makes more sense than salvation through saying on your deathbed that you accept Jesus as your Savior.

To me, personally, it is ludicrous that, had he been given the chance, a person like Jeff Dalhmer could say those words, genuflect, and find himself before Saint Peter when a man as selfless, and as full of Christian-like morals, if not doctrine, as Ghandi, gets to play in the fire and brimstone all day.

The only reason Mormons try to identify themselves as Christian is as a marketing move so they can get more people to become Mormon.

But in truth, they have different books, different teachings, different history, and they simply aren't Christian.

Yes, they are different than most Christians. That doesn't mean that they aren't Christian. You can minimize it however you wish, but they are still Christians. Every Christian sect has different teachings, and different histories, otherwise there would only be one Christian Church, true? Just because the Mormons are more outlandish in their beliefs doesn't change the fact that they are Christians.

They have their own book, yes, but they also read the Bible, do they not? They believe in Jesus as the Son of God. That is more akin to modern Christianity than it is to the Gnostic sects of of early Christianity, is it not?

It is not a marketing ploy on their part, but their fundamental beliefs. That you can't accept that makes them no less Christian than you.

Also, religion as a majority produces joy and happiness, however the non-grace based religions also have a minority which will be pre-dominantly motivated by fear. This happened in the Christian church, although for the most part, they were preaching believe or die to people who believed, and if they went as far as to say be good or die, that would be against the teachings of the Bible.

Preachers have been using the "Fear of God" method , especially in this country, for hundreds of years. People pick and choose from the Bible the parts that support their desires and motivations. That hasn't changed, and probably never will change.

 

[DeletedUser]

Reaction after reading the thread /U]"God Vs Darwin."

My Identity: I am Hasan, 20 years old and I am a follower of the last Abrahamic Religion "Islam"

Please Note That here I will write that what I do believe. I am not degrading or criticizing anybody or any specific religion. I do believe that the cores of all the religions are good.

Now let me tell you my story that I learned from my last 20 year's study on religion and self thinking.

Religions, especially Abrahamic Religions are like a chain.

This trend started from Judaism. Moses(pbuH) introduced this religion. Human being was sent to this earth by God. But there were no proper rules and regulations which will be followed by human being. So, God decided to send a messenger and sent Moses (pbuH). Moses(pbuH) brought Torah for us.

You will find that 10 Commandments were authored by God and given to Moses on the mountain referred to as Mount Sinai. And They are recognized as a moral foundation in Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

Then after the death of Moses(pbuH), the world became unstable again. People involved in serious crimes. As God has mercy on us then God decided to send another one prophet.

Then we got Jesus(pbuH). And Jesus introduced Christianity. Jesus (pbuH) brought Bible. Bible was the updated version of Torah as Christianity was the updated version of Judaism. Jesus (pbuH) invited all Jews people to accept the latest edition. But some of them refused to accept the true religion of God and then as we(Muslims) believe that Jesus was condemned to crucifixion and then miraculously saved by Allah (God). But Christianity became the new true religion of the world and as we have seen that Christians increased drastically and the rate was very high.

After almost 600 years of Jesus (pbuH) it has been seen that the original Bible has lost. Few people have written down Bible and the situation of the world became worst again.

Then God decided to send the final messenger and He was Muhammad (pbuH).

Muhammad (pbuH) brought Islam to us.

Islam and Christianity share their origins in the Abrahamic tradition, as does Judaism. Islam accepts many aspects of Christianity as part of its faith - sometimes with differences in interpretation. As we believe Islam is just the updated version of Christianity. In Holy Quran you will find many quotations regarding Judaism and Christianity.

Now Have a look on the Picture: It shows the prevalence of Abrahamic (pink) and Eastern Religion (yellow) in each country.

[spoil]

[/spoil]

Lets Come to the topic: "Why God Exists"?

Friends,

Just imagine that more than 90% Human Being can not do the same mistake. Isn't it?

Look at the Moon, Star, Sun, Galaxi.... These can not be created automatically, isn't it?

Just think, when u were 6 months or 1 year old, then can u recall any memory that happened on that time? I am sure the answer will be No. Just like that our soul was existing and we are sent to this earth for few days (like: max 100 yrs). But we can not recall any memory of our that life.

As this truth, it is also true that we will die but our soul will not. Good people's soul will get Heaven and bad people's soul will get Hell.

As it was mentioned in the thread God vs Darwin that how can old religions shows us the proper ways?

Well... I would like to say: Read Torah then Bible and Holy Quran. I am sure, after reading Torah you will come up with some questions and in Bible u will get the answers. Again after reading Bible you will want to know something more and you will get answers in Holy Quran.

I have personally read Holy Quran and now I do believe that Only God can write these kind of Books. I also came up with a conclusion that to lead life till Dooms Day, This Holy Quran is enough to lead Human Being.

If you have any confusion then you can read it.

Finally I would say that it sounds insane if somebody says God does not exist. My personal suggestion to them is: THINK, THINK and THINK. You will get the answer. God created our brain like this so that we can understand that God exists.

That's all of my Lecture......



Sorry for bothering you........

Have a Very Good Day...........


--
Hasan
​

​

@bold
I don't believe it.

As for the post
hmm, ignorant i'd say

 

[darkaniken2]

I stopped reading to make this comment, and will probably edit this post. Mormons are as Christian as anyone else. The only real requirement to be a Christian is to believe Christ was the savior. If you want to start going into technical beliefs, I'll get pyker on skype and we'll make up a post tearing apart everyone that is Protestant and making them un-Christian. Every Christian faith believes differently, and the mormons have their own religious system.

EDIT: The Mormon bible is exactly the same as the bible you read. It just has different sidenotes that lead to different interpretations. The verses themselves are exactly the same.

 

[DeletedUser]

but it was founded to protest the "Church" (catholic church) as an entity. You really like the idea of confessing sins, needing to be baptized, giving a percentage of your paycheck to the church, and in general having them change the bible to accomodate themselves better? I mean, if I was going to pick a religion it wouldn't be catholocism

The Church does not force you to give money, but if a dollar or 2 is so much of your paycheck im sure you wouldnt get excommunicated for that.

Baptisement and confession... im pretty sure thats mostly used in the protestants. And id like to ask, is it so hard? Im Catholic and it doesnt really bother me.

 

[DeletedUser52584]

The Church does not force you to give money, but if a dollar or 2 is so much of your paycheck im sure you wouldnt get excommunicated for that.

Baptisement and confession... im pretty sure thats mostly used in the protestants. And id like to ask, is it so hard? Im Catholic and it doesnt really bother me.

Back when the protestant religion/denomination was formed things were different, you were expected to give a percentage of your income. It wasn't the "pass the collection plate" We have these days. It forced catholicism to change. But if you go back far enough the church used to take care of activities the government does now like heath care and welfare.

 

[DeletedUser]

Tithing is a very, very, very old practice. The Christians didn't invent it. lol

 

[darkaniken2]

Tithing is a very, very, very old practice. The Christians didn't invent it. lol

They just found a way to exploit it on a global scale.

 

[DeletedUser]

I haven't commented lately, and I'm not really planning on rejoining (I would, but I don't have time), but I think that this little bit of info should be imputed (imputted.... however it's spelled).

Existentialist philosophies, if one follows them, make sence of religions (although I don't expect anyone in this thread to follow them )

Just thought I'd point that out

Have fun everyone