The beginning of the end of world 18

[DeletedUser]

Oh thank goodness. My aim to ensure you are as misinformed as possible for your next posting.

much appreciated!!

 

[DeletedUser]

OK - I just wasted 10 minutes of my life reading your posts. Suddenly watching paint dry looks like a fun day in.

So, in your head, what was your argument because, clearly, there's a lot happening in there that isn't managing to make it in to your posts!?!

More likely you're just absolutely incapable of reading what is there without seeing what you want to see. I made a top 100 vs top 100 comparison which showed -WE- way out infront of a theoretical tribe containing the best from all your alliances in terms of size and ahead in terms of world dominance. I then went on to reply to other people stating :

"I'd like to see your top 100 try and pile on 23k vills in 11months to catch our top 100. Taking into account you'd actually have to fight for them, some players inevitably leaving due to RL etc you wouldn't do it."

"If you took your alliances 100 top players now and warred the rest of your alliance so that you were on roughly a similar field to -WE- in terms of % dominance vs rest of world then you wouldn't hit that pace and have your top 100 overtake our top 100 in an 11month timeframe. Fighting them doesn't mean recruiting when 1 of your players goes inactive and you lose him. I realize this whole concept of war might be new to you, try playing some other world."

Good grief! I seem to have wandered onto a school prayground. Please tell me you are 12...

No I'm not, so calm down, put your tissues away and keep on looking for somebodyelse to meet you for sweets.

Golly! I wonder where the other 80,000 players went? This from a guy that has taken nearly 50% more barbs than I have and has just over 10% (200) more villages despite playing for over 50% (1 year) longer.

You do realize trying to paint me as a barb whore and making comparisons between us when your ODA is only a little ahead despite using a system which typically generates numbers 3+ times bigger is rather stupid ? It quite clearly shows where alot of my resources have went and why my nobling pace isn't as high as others. Troops cost resouces, that means less resources to spend on minting, it's the whole fighting thing remember ?

 

[Ray Joakim]

Andrew Done:

Redneck's post - there is nothing to suggest that what he said he claimed as fact. Do we now have to put IMO or "I think" in front of all our statements just in case someone thinks that we think we're stating something as fact? Naturally, people will not see eye-to-eye, we give different view points and seek to justify them on the forums. And yes, you can say you were the "quickest" to achieve closure - but what we're discussing here is how this accomplishment weighs up relative to the rest of TW.net.

I understand your stance on "morals and ethics" in tribal wars - but frankly it seems laughable in a war game, which promotes things like spying, property damage, mass murder, etc. Yes, real people behind those accounts, but what are they losing? Some e-villages. Besides, such moral codes quickly break down when personal security is at risk - and it seems to be the most prominent reason for the existence of family tribes in the first place: safety in numbers. It is, however, not talked about often because it doesn't sound very good.

I didn't mention anything about irony. I said you missed his point.

I never suggested we were the only players to be canvassing for an endgame scenario; however our actions certainly helped force it along - no other tribe in the game is as progressed as DNY is. I believe it's the endgame scenario was very much needed for w12, where there really was nothing much left to fight for - which is probably why DNY closed first. There was less large players then Ks, for example.

Harder victory: I was talking about ingame achievement: rather then just keeping our alliances, which w18 now has the luxury of doing, we warred our allies down to the last tribe standing in order to get the scenario put into place, as the endgame had not even been created at the time.

Clearly you were misinformed to expect TW moderators to be neutral in all the discussions they participate in.

Not being able to see the world from another's perspective sounds like a personal flame to me. And besides how can you suggest that by me clarifying Rednecks' point makes me someone who can't see another's perspective? You're pretty quick to judge.

 

[DeletedUser]

"I'd like to see your top 100 try and pile on 23k vills in 11months to catch our top 100. Taking into account you'd actually have to fight for them, some players inevitably leaving due to RL etc you wouldn't do it."

"If you took your alliances 100 top players now and warred the rest of your alliance so that you were on roughly a similar field to -WE- in terms of % dominance vs rest of world then you wouldn't hit that pace and have your top 100 overtake our top 100 in an 11month timeframe. Fighting them doesn't mean recruiting when 1 of your players goes inactive and you lose him. I realize this whole concept of war might be new to you, try playing some other world."

I believe I responded to both these paragraphs. You may not have liked the responses (particularly to the 2nd para) but respond I did. Your inability to understand/accept/reply to those responses reminds me of an Ostrich...

No I'm not, so calm down, put your tissues away and keep on looking for somebodyelse to meet you for sweets.

I think my estimate, at least on an emotional/maturity level, may be somewhat high. This sort of comment is, to be frank, disgusting.

You do realize trying to paint me as a barb whore and making comparisons between us...

Your memory is clearly very short. Recall you implied that I/we had amassed nobles due to some unfamiliarity with fighting. My response simply countered that assertion. If you don't like people smacking you down with facts then I suggest you get more selective about your arguments.

 

[DeletedUser]

I understand your stance on "morals and ethics" in tribal wars - but frankly it seems laughable in a war game, which promotes things like spying, property damage, mass murder, etc.

Your observation is fundamentally flawed.

You appear to be confusing game constructs with real relationships. Those relationships may only last for the duration of the game but they are no less real.

My loyalty is to my tribemates, real people who trust me and I, in turn trust. Anything I do in TW against the enemy is fair game. My enemy, though real people too, are not people to whom I have pledged my support and loyalty.

Incidentally you would know, if you actually read through these forums, that I think spying, at least on w18, is pointless.

P.S. I used to be in the armed forces and morals and ethics are not dropped when you don your fatigues. If anything one's morals and ethics are what keeps you sane and doing the right thing.

Yes, real people behind those accounts, but what are they losing? Some e-villages.

e-villages are not the issue. Trust and loyalty is.

Besides, such moral codes quickly break down when personal security is at risk

That is true for some. Personally I'd rather go down fighting for and with my friends.

safety in numbers. It is, however, not talked about often because it doesn't sound very good.

You are correct but let's not forget that it is those same reasons that we coalesce into tribes as well.

Clearly you were misinformed to expect TW moderators to be neutral in all the discussions they participate in.

Not misinformed. I am simply stating the values I think moderators should espouse.

Not being able to see the world from another's perspective sounds like a personal flame to me. And besides how can you suggest that by me clarifying Rednecks' point makes me someone who can't see another's perspective? You're pretty quick to judge.

Aren't we all!

 

[DeletedUser]

Lmao, I was part of a family tribe that was a major force? You have no clue XD

I was the leader of 4 'tribes', everyone in those tribes where noobs that only were in that tribe for my verbal protection, since I could scare attackers of by sending mails out being the #1 player.

The only real purpose that tribe ever served was my own personal well being, I was a lazy player, I rather talk an enemy into surrendering then have to spend a lot of time on trying to take the villages by force. And because I was a lazy player I also hated faking. So I used the tribe for that, I'd send out a circular mail and then all noobs send out fakes. Within a couple of hours I got my targets on a couple of thousand incomings ^^

And I only used it to have fun lol.. All the forums on the tribe were hidden back then and everyone had hidden access, So I could give out forum bans to newbs (This was before there were 'trusted' forums).

So nope, the SUKO family, or SLUT (Suko's Little Underling Tribe) as it used to be called before the admins disbanded it because of the name, wasn't a major force lol.. It was just a bunch of noobs that I abused for my own good

I also nobled them out if I felt like that XD

Anyway, I don't think the SUKO family played any particular role. When I for example quit, the family got immediately declared on by FUSION which was an actual tribe and the tribe immediately disbanded because I could no longer give them the protection needed XD

suko tribe still had a big impact because it also protected you by large groups and "noobs" that would have learned well got eliminated suko could have lasted longer and competed with dny if it was used to teach "noobs" it was a long time ago if the tribe was the same and ladership was different world 12 could have been world 18 like I was not in the tribe that long and wanted to reduce acadamies so I disagree with you that it was not a major tribe or at least event. I am talking theoritical of course there would be no suko with out you fusion also was effected because of less fight I am not saying that there were not other factors.

My opinion is that under the right conditions a family can do well and a if it is a tribe meant for personal gain it still has some impact
Apoc was not fao someones personal gain and a family tribe is not always an easy way out many players hate them so will attack them you also must teach the players harder and be more careful with leadership dismisals it does have its pros as well as cons. I am saying that world 12 and 18 had similarities DNY had what to me looked liked a family tribe Oots but it was long ago to recall.

 

[DeletedUser]

WOW!! I just popped on to see how the world is going and to see an official close coming up is impressive. A heartfelt and sincere congrats to apoc/ba, I never thought this day would come... well done!

I admit that I haven't combed through the trolling that I am sure is in the first few pages but perhaps I'll go back and read it later...

 

[DeletedUser53550]

No tribe lost? Have you ever used TWStats?

Never mind. According to TWstats, approximately 33,680 tribes lost.

Try again...

Again, damn. Forgot I'm dealing with W18.

Simple, must keep it simple..

There are 4 tribes remaining, they can't be separated as non of them is willing to risk losing, therefore its a draw. The 4 tribes did beat the other 33680 tribes but when it got down to the last 4, well, it was clearly time to say "hold on guys, if we all stick together the world can end and we can all walk away together as equals". Which part of that is not a draw? You all get equal credit.

 

[DeletedUser]

I believe I responded to both these paragraphs. You may not have liked the responses (particularly to the 2nd para) but respond I did. Your inability to understand/accept/reply to those responses reminds me of an Ostrich...

You responded by basically admitting you couldn't do it the normal way (needing recruits or villages gifted to you, failing that you'd mass delete) and yet claiming you'd somehow destroyed my arguement which is a massive wth? on the moronic scale.

I think my estimate, at least on an emotional/maturity level, may be somewhat high. This sort of comment is, to be frank, disgusting.

boo hoo.

Your memory is clearly very short. Recall you implied that I/we had amassed nobles due to some unfamiliarity with fighting. My response simply countered that assertion. If you don't like people smacking you down with facts then I suggest you get more selective about your arguments.

Smacking down lol, your response implied that you a warrior whereas I am not because I have taken some more barbs then you apparently. The massive ODA difference begs otherwise, it says I fight for my villages, you at best break a nail. Those are facts.

You've clearly not had enough players to noble throughout your game if you've got that amount stockpiled. It's far more likely the rest of your world went "ah crap, they're all uber hugging and I'm not into being tea bagged but I don't wanna fight 1 vs 10000000 either" and quit.
This has then left you swanning around with all your allies and you haven't had the balls to cut ties and have a challenge.

 

[torflek]

What's particularly noteworthy to me is that for 2 years we've seen all arguments against families made. We were told the family and the alliance would never last - let alone win. But now it has. I would think the natural reaction would be more: "Wow. I didn't think a family could actually survive and win. This is pretty rare." But instead, the reaction is more base. It's essentially a new crop of people complaining about how families suck and how alliances should not be kept. You learn something new about people all the time! LOL

What bullcrap. You are not special in any means. Hell back when I was playing World 3, Cult created a family tribe which still appears to be running. Hell there were probably successful families on W1 and 2 or on other servers predating APOC. Point is they are slowly dropping to a single tribe. Hell claiming you have done something clever or special is rubbish. It is much easier to win if you recruit half the world. The difficult thing is destroying the families. Hell in 2 worlds I have created tribes with the sole purpose of ripping apart mega family tribes by the throat. Obviously in W18 there were no good solo tribes capable of dealing with a mass recruiting, alliance making weak tribe like APOC.

Simple. You are not novel creating a family, you are not the first successful family tribe. All families/alliances should end/thin out to achieve end game.

 

[DeletedUser]

Lazerus: You are a muppet. My last response to your puerile drivel...

You responded by basically admitting you couldn't do it the normal way (needing recruits or villages gifted to you, failing that you'd mass delete) and yet claiming you'd somehow destroyed my arguement which is a massive wtf? on the moronic scale.

I wonder if you have even tried to read the entirity of any of my responses, let alone understand them.

Smacking down lol, your response implied that you a warrior whereas I am not

Clearly you don't because I provided the reason for my response in my last post to you. Read it and understand.

You've clearly not had enough players to noble throughout your game if you've got that amount stockpiled.

That is certainly true at the moment. We have a no barbs rule and 500 red/brown dots. It is hardly surprising that we are amassing nobles. When you get closer to the end game you will understand (unless, of course, you continue your personal crusade against the barbs!)

It's far more likely the rest of your world went "ah crap, they're all uber hugging and I'm not into being tea bagged but I don't wanna fight 1 vs 10000000 either" and quit.

Do you actually understand the crap you write or is this some sort of exercise in stream of consciousness?

This has then left you swanning around with all your allies and you haven't had the balls to cut ties and have a challenge.

A.K.A. on the brink of world victory.

 

[DeletedUser]

Hell in 2 worlds I have created tribes with the sole purpose of ripping apart mega family tribes by the throat.

Did your "family-destroying tribes" achieve their goals? If so I can only surmise that the families concerned were poorly led.

Obviously in W18 there were no good solo tribes capable of dealing with a mass recruiting, alliance making weak tribe like APOC.

Your comments show a complete lack of understanding of the history and players in this world. Why the hate?

Simple. You are not novel creating a family, you are not the first successful family tribe.

We didn't say we were the first to create a family. We didn't even say that those other families weren't successful to a degree, but I would say that the ultimate measure of the success of a family/alliance is to achieve world victory without breaking up. We are certainly the first to achieve that.

All families/alliances should end/thin out to achieve end game.

Your opinion, not ours. Lest we forget, this is a thread that has announced our impending victory.

 

[DeletedUser]

Incorrect. It's actually the other way around. Our criteria to end the world were defined well before Morthy defined what the end game would look like. Check out the w18 forum (not just this thread!) Before Morthy defined the end game criteria I, and many of the other allied leadership, had clearly stated that our objective was to turn the world blue (any shade) and, on the day that was achieved, hit delete.

No, my point is still correct. Had Morthy not put this world in End Game mode then you would have "hit delete" or in other words use other options. I highly doubt you could have gotten every last person in all 4 tribes to delete. I could not organize this with just 90, yes I tried on w12, so I know for a fact you would not have achieved this here. The remaining players would have reorganized into either 1 new tribe or several and faught it out.

Or, indeed, anybody but the player population of the world inquestion. Hence my response to retro1324.
It is unforunate that you can't resist your baser urges to descend in pergorative terminology. It speaks more poorly of you than it does of us.

It is not meant to be "pergorative terminology" (damn quit using big words!) but you need to accept the fact that it is what it is. You may not like the world being referred to hugging or recruiting but that is exactly what happened. You have 4 tribes with ~250 members that is hugging.

I think you need to try to build and maintain a strong alliance that weathers a 3 year hate-war by its opponents, and sticks together right up to the end game before you are qualified to describe the path we took as easy. Anyone who says it is simply betrays their own ignorance.

Compared to how W12 ended its world, your way was much easier. To use your word, it would be ignorant of you to think otherwise.

It was a long time coming and could have done without the qualification but... thank you!

Your welcome. :icon_wink:

 

[DeletedUser]

No, my point is still correct. Had Morthy not put this world in End Game mode then you would have "hit delete" or in other words use other options. I highly doubt you could have gotten every last person in all 4 tribes to delete. I could not organize this with just 90, yes I tried on w12, so I know for a fact you would not have achieved this here. The remaining players would have reorganized into either 1 new tribe or several and faught it out.

You are, of course, correct. There is no way we would have got everyone to hit delete but, then again, after I hit delete I would neither have known nor cared! We would still have achieved our publicly stated goal. If the vultures wanted to pick at the carcasses left on the field of victory then let them.

Of course the TW staff did define victory conditions and those conditions did & do support victory by a family/alliance so the point is moot.

 

[torflek]

Did your "family-destroying tribes" achieve their goals? If so I can only surmise that the families concerned were poorly led.

Meh you need to go learn your histories of other worlds. You may learn how to play TW as a consequence.

Your comments show a complete lack of understanding of the history and players in this world. Why the hate?

You want me to answer this? I think that you not only are forcing a cop out victory by recruiting/ making alliances with the final tribes, but you also believe you can justify this to compare the victory to worlds where a single tribe has / will win. I agree with Xaf on this. This world should be declared a draw and no one wins.

We didn't say we were the first to create a family. We didn't even say that those other families weren't successful to a degree,
but I would say that the ultimate measure of the success of a family/alliance is to achieve world victory without breaking up. We are certainly the first to achieve that.

Yes he did claim so, and claiming other families were not as successful as you demonstrates your arrogance and lack of historical understanding of previous worlds and servers.

Your opinion, not ours. Lest we forget, this is a thread that has announced our impending victory.

Draw.... impending draw.

 

[DeletedUser]

Lazerus: You are a muppet. My last response to your puerile drivel...

Yes yes sure, make some random statements, try to look smart and take a moral high ground and when that fails simply walk away from the challenge, don't let those old habits die.

I wonder if you have even tried to read the entirity of any of my responses, let alone understand them.
Clearly you don't because I provided the reason for my response in my last post to you. Read it and understand.

I think you're the only one who sees any sense in your flawed posts.

That is certainly true at the moment. We have a no barbs rule and 500 red/brown dots. It is hardly surprising that we are amassing nobles. When you get closer to the end game you will understand (unless, of course, you continue your personal crusade against the barbs!)

Do you actually understand the crap you write or is this some sort of exercise in stream of consciousness?

No, I won't, we don't have the rest of the world allied, if ever I start amassing nobles it's because the world is 100% -WE-.
You can continue your personal crusade against the nasty people who are pro-war by solving all the problems with a hug & an invite or alliance.

 

[DeletedUser]

We get it. You hate w18. You think everyone who played here sucks. Point made. Now be quiet and go pound sand miscreants.


You're not going to convince anyone here that you're right. We've already given you all the explanation you need to rationally understand our position. You all refuse. So bugger off.
Go spam your own forum... or is that too boring and dull nowadays, too?

Go figure... for all the nastiness that w18 seems to generate, it seems without us you'd have little to entertain yourselves.

BTW, have you re-upped your Premium? Keep sending that money!

 

[giantsfrey]

You're not going to convince anyone here that you're right.

i'm sure that most of the w18-ers that have read this have already been convinced in some way, and are asking themselves "would i be on the winning side if our world weren't huggers and we decided to fight to the last tribe standing?"

We've already given you all the explanation you need to rationally understand our position. You all refuse.

oh, we understand your position. we just think it is wrong, and are lobbying for TW to set new rules/standards so that nobody else achieves a pseudo-victory (read: tie) like this again. it makes a mockery of the game, and detracts from the glory of winners in worlds that do fight it out to the last tribe standing.

 

[DeletedUser]

i'm sure that most of the w18-ers that have read this have already been convinced in some way, and are asking themselves "would i be on the winning side if our world weren't huggers and we decided to fight to the last tribe standing?"

If we had a different plan for the endgame, then we would not be where we are now. I think that's pretty obvious. The only reason we have all gotten here is because we've kept our word to each other.

oh, we understand your position. we just think it is wrong

Ummm... didn't I say that? Yeah. I think I did. You have your opinion. We don't care.
Glad you agree.

it makes a mockery of the game, and detracts from the glory of winners in worlds that do fight it out to the last tribe standing.

This made me laugh. Seriously?! Hahahahahah!
The "glory"??? It's an internet game, dude! You realize how lame this sounds, right?
LOL

:lol:

 

[DeletedUser]

This thread was too long, didn't read.

Congrats.