DeletedUser80720
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eat your words :*
DeletedUser57259
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darkx
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- 302
Glad Matt cleared this up we can all finally rest now mystery is solved
DeletedUser119075
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Can you please stop pointing out the obvious.
DeletedUser57259
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Unfortunately it doesn't seem to be universally obvious.
Mithrae
Guest
Despite deploring Sir Cornish's punctuation and grammar and generally finding myself holding similar views or at least reasoning to Xillah, surely I cannot be the only one who thinks that Cornish was right and Xillah was pwned here, assuming this "mattcurr" is a reliable source?
Edit: Anyone who reads this can totally feel free to look back in the thread for my Halloween img and post it in the K45 Tale thread. It's not like I post many imgs, and I desperately need the approval while simultaneously loathing the idea of being needy.
Mr. Cringer Pants
Guest
Mattcurr is right. Attack ID's are still in the game they are just randomly masked. This occurred while I was in w72. I can only presume innogames implemented this to balance the ATTACK ID scripts that were being hosted. Essentially, a tight tribe with a good scripter could upload all outgoing attacks(farming runs, fakes, ect..) and then you could tag any incoming at any time correctly labeling the incomming assuming you had an active tribe of updating the database frequently.
This process could also be abused. For example, a tribe's ATTACK ID script being used (stolen) by another tribe could have the databased altered to report incorrect times for the opposing tribe who was using the script without authorization.
Side note: I miss the days of scripts and opera. Not sure if it's the dwindling userbase or the fact that most of the fun I had was playing in small tribes - 10 members - with good a good scripter and active members that understood game strategies and tactics. Now any tribe can be strong simply via activity and recruitment. Today's TW's takes quite a bit of the prestige out of the tight nit tribes that understood how to use browser settings, scripts and teamwork to work to their advantage. Now PP, activity, espionage and the masses determine "quality" teams.
Sad really, oh well. Money talks. :/
This process could also be abused. For example, a tribe's ATTACK ID script being used (stolen) by another tribe could have the databased altered to report incorrect times for the opposing tribe who was using the script without authorization.
Side note: I miss the days of scripts and opera. Not sure if it's the dwindling userbase or the fact that most of the fun I had was playing in small tribes - 10 members - with good a good scripter and active members that understood game strategies and tactics. Now any tribe can be strong simply via activity and recruitment. Today's TW's takes quite a bit of the prestige out of the tight nit tribes that understood how to use browser settings, scripts and teamwork to work to their advantage. Now PP, activity, espionage and the masses determine "quality" teams.
Sad really, oh well. Money talks. :/
Mithrae
Guest
I'm not a PP money-talks kinda guy. I came back after my W90 hiatus because I recalled having 5k pp, and now have 13k after a little farming on 101
But I rather detest the idea that you have to use a particular browser or particular scripts to do well, also. Don't get me wrong, I had Opera installed back in the day. Probably still do, tbh. But that shit ain't strategy, it's mechanics. No doubt there's some folk with intelligent strategic minds who also exploit every possible loophole and PP advantage, who purely love TW: But for the rest of us who have a love-hate relationship with the game, it's the -ing strategy which draws us in, not the -ing decision of which browser to use or which semi-literate programmer's script we find posted on a -ing tribe forum!
Please excuse me, blame the alcohol if you will, but that is -ing bullshit! That ain't skill, it's -ing luck, and while I use scripts on occasion (probably only fake scripts really, which are among my most despised) I think it behooves us all to view this crap a necessary evil in some worlds at best, not some kind of measure of players' ability!
Edut::: Really is partly the alcohol, but still, truer words I have never spoken.
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Mr. Cringer Pants
Guest
First off: I was not saying scripts/browsers was strategy but was crucial to being part of a tight group of gamers and something I miss. Along with understanding the strat/tactics. I'm well aware it's mechanics. By definition it is skill with respect to knowledge and an expertise. Also, not sure how LUCK is involved with regard to using a script or browser. I think that's the booze talking a little on your part.
skill
noun
- the ability to do something well; expertise.
We are all entitled to our opinion. I, however, did like the utilization of scripts and browser settings. Being computer savvy has always given me an advantage at computer games. Not so much anymore in TW.
With respect to PP, you can have nobles in BP. Seriously PP is huge at startup/early game and gives people a massive advantage and is not skill or strategy. You either pay to win or farm to win and can outgrow the entire world in days.
I.e. if w100 coalition tried to do what they did to Riot! pre-w70's and Riot! had the knowledge of scripts and browser settings they would of been able to fight the good fight and won with ease. Sending a train was skill(knowledge). Now there is literally no skills or knowledge to give an advantage to a gamer. They basically made every script an in game function except for faking, backtiming and snipe scripts. I'm just geeky and liked the advantage of knowing scripters and how to edit java as well as use opera shortcutting and bookmarking to my advantage. It was advanced gaming compared to a click fest with micro transactions everywhere. I recently came back to 18500 PP and am not very motivated to use it.
It's strictly an activity and numbers games now. Like previously posted, there was a time a group of 10 member tribe that had the knowledge of scripts and browers that could hold off 100's of accounts. The only in game skill is literally timing, nothing else. The startup strategy of risk taking and going O for rapid growth and the strategy in mid/late game with respect to which villages to stack and how to make some builds have not changed. Poofing troops has not changed except for the vast amount of espionage compared to older world. No such thing as skill anymore in TW and browsers/scripts were part of skill a.k.a an expertise if you will. Other strategies are tribal and not going to touch on those here.
Also, with regards to PnP used to be much better on the externals which respect to creative and artistic talents. Top small tribes could run a political campaign posting screenshots of properly sent trains and sniped 1+ second trains and build up morale for the team and possible sway other tribes to join there cause based on their defensive holds against a vastly large tribe. My 2 most favorite fights were in w70 - (20:1 ratio) and w80 - 10:1 size and we were victorious both time, partly in due to PnP and using browsers/scripts. Now it's a circle jerk and flame fest. Most tribes are now bound at the hip with end game alliances that are founded at startup or with pre-mades.
Skills used to encompass the expertise of using a computer for an advantage. In w72, we were the only tribe with a working attackID script. Our skillful scripter made a private one that allowed mass uploading of all fakes/farming runs. In older worlds, nobody even farmed. Now everyone has TWFR a la Loot Assistant which also still requires a script to use most functionally, CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC. I don't know why people talk about in game skills or talent when it's nothing but timing. Which anyone can do with a little practice. Vast amounts of people are now using a chrome extension that is illegal giving them opera like abilities. I had a few "skilled" and old school gamers tell me to use it, despite it being illegal.
The game even has a mass packet in game sender now. The entire concept of packets was not largly known in older worlds. I could go on and on about other in game features that I feel "cheapened" the game and experiance for me now that the masses have access to basically everything. Account manager plays the game for you. Watchtowers tag for you.
While I understand innogames needs MONEY because money talks and to keep the servers alive with a dwindling user base. Rememeber that non-prem users get adverisements and there used to be 40k users + on a world. Now 5k and in w102 I have less than 1000 points and am rank 2000, so probably 2000-3000 people growing. Just got out of BP yesterday. Top account has over 8 villages with massive coins paid for with PP. Don't get me started on the Buffs either.
I simply miss the days of being able to have a group of 20-30 people playing 10 accounts and take on a vast family tribe using skill and knowledge of scripts/browsers. I humbly disagree with your little rant but it's more than welcome. We clearly have different opinions. No reason for you to get upset
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Deleted User - 10017355
Guest
Your entire rant is about scripts being a skill yet you don't even understand how to use the master key in the farm script. I lol in your general direction.
Mr. Cringer Pants
Guest
My entire rant is how the game has changed and I'm disappointed with the new additions. Not just scripts being a skill. Reread and comprehend better please.
You are assuming things, as usual, and also trying to troll. I plenty well know how to configure the farm script, just used C as an example since you are still C farming (most of the world) based on LA. One can also micro-farm with any of the profiles. Great job at trying to pick apart one example and giving yourself a nice self-inflated ego boost while attempting to appear smart on a small gaming forum. All in all, I'm just saying I enjoyed the game more when it wasn't dumbed down for the masses and riddled with microtransactions.
And using, configuring and creating scripts is a skill and TW from a gaming perspective has very little skill involved, hence my point about having a skill and knowledge computer-based advantage in older worlds which have been essentially eliminated with exception to a few instances. Making this game ' user-friendly' surely hasn't helped the total population though. The ONLY skill in TW based on the majority of gamers definitions is simply timing which can be conditioned neurologically over time through repetition and latency evaluation and adjustments or via a 3rd party program to identify it for you. Most of modern TW is activity and persistence, the rest is networking and diplomacy along with a lot of defamation and espionage. On w100, more villages due to no farming.
This is one of the most basic games when it comes to mechanics.
Honestly, I'll just quote myself because you are a prime example:
Seriously go away if you are just going to fail at trolling.
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Deleted User - 10017355
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Mr. Cringer Pants
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Ad hominem fallacy.
Fail troll is fail.
Fail troll is fail.
crimsoni
Contributing Poster
- Reaction score
- 350
This guy is farming me on W102.
Mithrae
Guest
I agree that P2W is incredibly annoying (albeit inevitable), but this is a non-premium world, so I'm not sure what Riot's fate has got to do with all that
They lost for a number of reasons, but probably the top two were limited farming - on a regular world the coalition's member density would have seriously disadvantaged them - and because war was declared before they could merge all their accounts and while many accounts were still under-manned. Neither of those have much bearing on the 'dumbing down' of the game.To be fair, working with the assumption that Riot had a higher average skill level than the many folk in coalition tribes, you could probably say that the 50ms attack gap on this world favours the numbers side more than a 100 or 200ms gap would have; it's more punishing even for folk who are experienced at sniping, while many less experienced folk wouldn't even snipe tribes with four times the gap. And that's quite an ironic thought, since I'd assumed the intention of the 50ms gap was for it to be more of a 'pro' setting; I guess it will have that effect in the end-game wars.
You're right that opera/scripts etc. are a form of 'skill,' but I stand by the view that since they're not strategy they don't really add any depth to the game - just more hassle, or easing some of the hassle which was pointless to begin with, and to some extent more luck as to who happens to find themselves in a tribe where those things are taught. Games like Diablo you might play for the grinding, but TW is a strategy game: Endless farming tedium, or clicking through hundreds of villages to queue buildings and troops, or having a good internet connection that lets you send awesome noble trains are really entirely peripheral to the main draw of the game, and for many if not most folk make it less fun, not more.
And I thoroughly disagree that the only skill left in the game is timing. Micro-farming barbs and finding player villages to farm are skills which are hinted at but not explicitly taught by the quests/Loot Assistant feature; efficient village building is a skill which in some cases is actually stunted by the quests, unfortunately; finding and contributing to a good tribe is a skill; prioritizing appropriate troop types and sources of resource income (now with scavenging in the mix too) are skills; protecting your account while offline and knowing how and when to dodge are skills; backtiming and knowing how to counter backtimes are very important skills; picking and successfully nobling good targets is a skill. Even if you're only talking about mid-game, there's still identifying appropriate targets to attack; sharing information on spent nukes, stacked villages etc. throughout the tribe; watchtower placement and protection, discovering enemies' watchtowers, and taking advantage of their limitations; efficient rotation of nuking and nobling villages; efficient defensive builds, packet support and prioritizing which villages to stack; knowing how and when to snipe and when to prenoble/recap... and probably plenty more that I'm not thinking of off the top of my head. To say nothing of the skill at the level of tribe leadership, of course.
Even knowing how and when to post an intelligible support request seems to be a skill which eludes many players well into mid-game.
I apologize for the seemingly combative tone of my last -ing post (I was actually having a grand old time, perhaps too much so
), but it seems as though you're pining for an era in which 'elite' players would dominate even more than they already tend to: Essentially, for an era in which the game was harder for everyone in absolute terms, but a lot easier for good players in relative terms.I think it's better that the playing field has been leveled a bit, especially since a lot of that leveling process has reduced the tedium which added nothing to strategic depth (ie, LA, AM, mass attack tagging etc.).
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DeletedUser122173
Guest
Elite players and tribes dunk on the competition nowadays even harder than they used to.
Go down the list of W100 tribes, majority of the top 10 is essentially world winning premades from either .net or other servers. Same with the players, most top 25 players are well known players from the community either historically, presently or in other servers. Essentially this is due to the premade and concentrating all the best players in one spot.
Someone also complained earlier that every tribe is getting alliances early. Currently Code has one with Beast and there are a few such examples of this on W100. Whatever anyone says, numbers are a very important part of the game and Code is only a 20 member tribe. We do not have the leadership personnel to support a 50 man family tribe to anywhere near the same level as we do with our current member base. Most tribes around us are 50 member family tribes and have further alliances behind that. Not saying that it's 100% necessary to get a diplomatic agreement, in an old world I'd have probably just had our tribe scrapping it out because there is a load of time to do that before the world becomes more endgame focused and the pace of the world is much quicker. I'd expect most tribes in old worlds to have an alliance or at least numerous NAPs when they controlled a couple continents and focusing on securing a quadrant or half of the world. This would be similar to where the top tribes are at now.
If you want to do well in this game and call yourself skilled, yes you can overcome numbers but fear and respect them. You cannot always expect to mess with opponents three times your size with triple your members and expect to win because you have better ingame knowledge and mechanics. Sometimes it does happen, I was part of one such tribe on W60 with an even worse gangbang than that, but these situations are outliers and the tribes that win generally are outliers. That comes with game knowledge and experience. Riot!'s overambitious spread, sloppy diplomacy and bad organisation of their mergers makes me think that perhaps the difference between them and the tribes they looked down on was not so much.
Go down the list of W100 tribes, majority of the top 10 is essentially world winning premades from either .net or other servers. Same with the players, most top 25 players are well known players from the community either historically, presently or in other servers. Essentially this is due to the premade and concentrating all the best players in one spot.
Someone also complained earlier that every tribe is getting alliances early. Currently Code has one with Beast and there are a few such examples of this on W100. Whatever anyone says, numbers are a very important part of the game and Code is only a 20 member tribe. We do not have the leadership personnel to support a 50 man family tribe to anywhere near the same level as we do with our current member base. Most tribes around us are 50 member family tribes and have further alliances behind that. Not saying that it's 100% necessary to get a diplomatic agreement, in an old world I'd have probably just had our tribe scrapping it out because there is a load of time to do that before the world becomes more endgame focused and the pace of the world is much quicker. I'd expect most tribes in old worlds to have an alliance or at least numerous NAPs when they controlled a couple continents and focusing on securing a quadrant or half of the world. This would be similar to where the top tribes are at now.
If you want to do well in this game and call yourself skilled, yes you can overcome numbers but fear and respect them. You cannot always expect to mess with opponents three times your size with triple your members and expect to win because you have better ingame knowledge and mechanics. Sometimes it does happen, I was part of one such tribe on W60 with an even worse gangbang than that, but these situations are outliers and the tribes that win generally are outliers. That comes with game knowledge and experience. Riot!'s overambitious spread, sloppy diplomacy and bad organisation of their mergers makes me think that perhaps the difference between them and the tribes they looked down on was not so much.
Mithrae
Guest
That seems a bit circular. The usual wartime banter notwithstanding, pretty sure that Riot was hyped by non-members as much if not more than by their own folk. Perhaps cynically so, because that was undoubtedly a contributor to the coalition's resolve and unity, but still. Claiming that 'elite' players dominate even more now, and then deciding that a previously-hyped tribe must not have been so great when they lose... seems just a bit circular, especially when most in-game changes like LA, AM, mass-tagging and so on serve to narrow that gap. If OMG and Code turned on and helped bring down BEAST, perhaps we'd have to conclude that they were mediocre too? The pre- and early-game mistakes by Riot would not have been an issue if those same members had done the same things on a much earlier world; so while they were mistakes, it hardly invalidates them as an example of how the playing field has leveled a bit over time.
Admittedly there's now more background by which to judge potential recruits, so tribes that are premades or focus on recruiting experienced players will probably be a little more prominent than previously.
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blckdrgn1
Guest
Its simple really guys. Skill has its value in wars, so do numbers. One heavily outweighing the other will win.
Mithrae
Guest
As a point of interest, just landed a snipe in the exact same ms as the second noble: In the village overview it showed the snipe arriving between the nobles, but it ended up arriving later. Unless that was a bug it suggests that within the same ms, it goes by the order the commands were sent.
Edit: Response to a ticket about it:
In situations where the ms (milliseconds) are the exact same in terms of the noble incoming and a potential snipe, then effectively it would be "random".
Whilst it "showed" that the snipe landed first, I believe it is the centiseconds that depict, which arrives first. The cs isn't shown and as such, you won't know which would arrive first.
What I would recommend is that you make a suggestion thread to get this sorted, so that you will know which lands first
Whilst it "showed" that the snipe landed first, I believe it is the centiseconds that depict, which arrives first. The cs isn't shown and as such, you won't know which would arrive first.
What I would recommend is that you make a suggestion thread to get this sorted, so that you will know which lands first
This probably isn't all that uncommon, when I think about it; even this world has ~10k player villages, so maybe 1-3k active nukes/week, hence perhaps 100-600 noble trains and anywhere from 87 to 19,438 snipe attempts on those trains. You'd expect an arrival in the same ms to occur perhaps twice for every thousand snipe attempts. There could easily be a half a dozen people having this issue each week, even on a small world like this.
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DeletedUser103748
Guest
As has been pointed out here, this is not a farming world and so having "a good spread" is not "good" on this world. Among other issues, many tribes have failed because they don't adapt to the world settings. This isn't a farming world, and so being tightly clustered, having your tribe all start at the same time/relocate to a tight cluster was the way to go in the early game. Had Riot not been so spread, it would have had a much easier time because there would have been less of a front, fewer isolated villages, faster travel times etc etc.
It is an immediate red flag if a premade tribe cannot organize themselves in such a basic manner as to have a tight spread in a non farming world. You either can't organize it (bad), or didn't consider the world settings in your strategy and are just copying the recipe of what has been done in the past or popularly viewed as good (bad), or think you're just so good it doesn't matter (bad).
It is an immediate red flag if a premade tribe cannot organize themselves in such a basic manner as to have a tight spread in a non farming world. You either can't organize it (bad), or didn't consider the world settings in your strategy and are just copying the recipe of what has been done in the past or popularly viewed as good (bad), or think you're just so good it doesn't matter (bad).
