ok lets tear this apart just for fun
sorry i love debating and when i read this i acully laughed at all the holes in it. btw seth i love ya i think your smart and dont take offese. i just like to debtae. if i thought you were dumb i would not waste my time.
this is do to the final crisis in the usa, 100% the USA's falt. I find it weird you would use a ecomic problem that the usa had as the foundation of most of your agument. seeing as the usa is the only place really that doest have health care that is a rich countryand it was the frist to crash and the reason everyone else crashed. this one fact is a huge hint that healthcare isnt bad for ecomics and your whole agument is faulse.
It actually isn't 100% the USA's fault. It's the leaders of the businessmen that failed, and the ONLY reason other countries were hurt is because you are dependent on the USA. That is their fault, not ours in any way. We don't MAKE them dependent on us, they choose to be.
your making this sound like a stable parren. firstly its often not true. seconly largly i find that this trend is acully in reverse and people dont relize it. taxes are low then ecomy goes to hell and as that happens the govemnt raises raise texes to fix it. then people see raising taxes and bad ecomy and think its the taxes that are doing it even though ecomic prombles came up long before.
When the government raises taxes to "fix" something they throw the money away. It has never worked and we are seeing it again! The companies that got the "bailout" haven't even spent 30% of that, but instead are giving their higher ups, bonuses. And the taxes that come with this make small business go out of business, making more people un-employed. And you can't argue with that seeing as where I live had the largest industrial plant in the whole US and now over 50% of those workers are un-employed thanks to the taxes Obama imposed right as he entered office.
this is a really odd statment becuse when right wings come into power i find its way more common for there to be economic problems. but your right people have short memories.
I love when liberals try and do this. Despite it being a blatant lie.
I'm guessing your example would be Clinton, correct?
Well if you'd do any research into it what so ever Bill Clinton profited off the institutions Bush Senior put in place. Clinton didn't do a thing to boost the economy.
this is my favoirt quote becuse it just shows how cofused you are. but its neat beucse a lot of people will read it not think and just go with it. i hear stuff like this all the time becuse after people read it they will repete it spreading it around more. ok so indstead of just noding our heads lets think about what your saying.
higher texes means the goverment is spending more. goverments often create good jobs and pay contracters and spend money boosting the ecomy. but more impornt the money is staying in the country and not sitting in far away places. do you think when you pay texes the money magicly disapeear? no the goverment spends it. but your talking about saving. this wasnt your point anyways. but i just wana point this out or my exmple might confuze people. your point was about saving.
And a mistake already. As I've already pointed out the government has NEVER been good at making jobs for people. As for the money "disappearing", yes, a LOT of it has proven to be pocketed. On average (you can find this pretty much anywhere.) The US citizen gets around 70% back of what he puts into State government and only around 50% in the federal government. That pretty much disproves your point right there.
if joe has 10 dollors a month he is going to spend 8 dollors for living and save 2. meaning 20% is being token outa the ecomy.
then texes are raised. now joe after taxes has 8 dollors a month. so your acully sayiing he will put 3 dollors away (more then before) and only live off 5.
without taxes: 8 dollors living
with taxes : 5 dollors living
think about that. now add in the fact that that acording to your logic taxes are a strange hold on the ecomy so inflation will happen. soo spending 5 dollors is more like worht 4 or 3 with taxation....
Yes, I am saying he'll put 3 dollars away and live off 5. Did you not learn anything from history during the great depression?? People used to BURY their money in their backyard in case it got any worse. History has proven that people spend less when the economy goes down. And having to pay that much more in taxes doesn't help a thing.
so you really honestly think he is going to put those 3 dollors away a month vs the 2 without. no he is going to spend more. having half as much money doesnt mean your bank acout will grow faster he has less money! that is extreamly illoigal.
Actually this post is illogical...In depressions most people are less likely to use banks and keep their money at home somewhere. It doesn't circulate in the economy, it stays stagnant and makes things worse.
i think you mixed up a valid point into your agument. the thing your mixing up is in unsure times you will save more. like if there is a good chance you will get laid off. but this has nothing to do with helthcare. alough it has to do with ecomic promlmes something you havnt tide to healthcare.
I'm pretty sure I did...Considering that helthcare will tax Millions of people, draining our money that could go into the economy, to help a Minority of people.
ty your acully make healthcare sound great. having to pay in insallments makes that sound really expesive. i dont wana have to worry about that when im sick. and i dont think most people would.
You're right, most people wouldn't. Most people also ignorantly think they are entitled to good healthcare, which is wrong. It is a business, you have to pay. And despite your unwillingness to pay, you can't make others pay for you. That in its self is unjust.
Installments or not, poor people can afford healthcare without health insurance. So this "public option" bullshit is just another way to drain our economy through taxes. :icon_neutral:
there is a lot more to heathcare the ER visits. also in the long run it can be a lot cheper for the system if people go to dr when they are sorta sick before the ER is requried. without healthcare not only are people sicker becuse they will avoid dr. the healthcare system is less effective. meaning more money has to be pumpbed into it. but its the idvulas that have to do that vs the goverment so you dont notice.
My point was they can get healthcare, but most Liberals try and make them think they can't.
As for Doctor visits, funny. Again, I'm poor, my family has been in debt most of my life. And yet I've managed to see a doctor regularly, and obviously I'm still alive. :icon_eek:
The only people who avoid healthcare and get sicker are the ignorant people who are scared and "think" they can't afford it, which is greatly untrue.
some things should be public and some things should not. Your turing this into a fastfood vs healthcare. if your really going to waste all our time and write about that then i will waste everones time and talk about privte police.. i mean i dont think you agree with privite police but if your going to avoid a real healthcare agument and talk about pubic fast food then i wiilll avoid your agument and lets lake about privite poice for a min. same thing right they do a service you should pay for it.
please note that by the nature of your agument your not for contracted out police. your for if you need there help you should pay them.
so if you had something stolen from you or you had someone beat you or just valdise your poperty you would have to pay. and mabye they would let you go a payment instument for a few mil if someone with a gun came into your house (or better yet your privite busness we know how your thinking about ecomincs and the strain on bussennss). i think im making my point on this
They only things that "should" be public is a police force and the military. Other than that it is, in fact, breaking the law.
Public schools, Public libraries, Fire Fighters, etc. They are ALL government/tax funded MONOPOLIES. Something our government supposedly "doesn't allow."
A private business has shown many times over it is more affective.
Again, you're surprised you have to pay for a service? Not paying is slavery. :icon_neutral: Last I knew, the US and most of the world was against slavery. The only real point you made is you'd rather millions of tax payers help save you, than you. That's nothing short of selfish. You pass the suffering off onto others. Though that's what this has all been about in the first place.
wow....... do you have any idea what it would be like for your small child to be sick and you cant aford to check. i mean kids get hurt a lot and some need medicine. you really wana deny them that? do you have any idea what that would be like for a parent. do you wana just let there kid get sick and mabye leading to prement prombelms. or mabye when stuff got really bad they could go to the ER but by then it would be to late. but i mean again even the ER vist going to cost money you can just wait a bit longer to pay.
First off this is a tangent and a Strawman all in one...
My Niece actually has the Flu right now, she's not even two years old and yes she is getting medicine and will make it through. Medicine isn't costly...I fail to see how $100 to save your kids life is a hard decision, or unfair in any way.
You're just making up excuses now for people to sit home and die. For anyone who does, I don't feel one bit sorry for. It's their own ignorance on healthcare that makes them do this.
this is besides the point. the usa already has programs in place for poor parents and there kids. and texes are already paying for it. idk. it just seemed like a odd thing for you to bring up. and i took a little offece to it becuse your talking about it like you would wana take that away that impornat service. the idea of that breaks my heart. there is a personal story in hear for me so that little comment made me take a little more offense then i shoulda i guess.
I, actually, and all for taking Medicare and Medicade away. Though, on an emotional point I'm against myself in this. Logic only shows how these are harmful, and that people should not be allowed to leech off the system, only hurting others as they go.
Emotion has no place in government. Logic, facts, and reason do. All these point to, "You can't MAKE others pay for you to live. You may ask through charity, but forcing is against any logic."
i would agree that a lot of americans dont want healthcare. but that doesnt mean its not a bad idea. magority does not equal right. the classic example of this is most people thought the world was flat at one time. so was it? alough i will admite thats this is a bad expamle. a better one would be magority of americns were in favor of there 2 wars at the time they were started. now im not going to open up the door for that talk and i wont say either way if they were right or wrong but i really really dont think you can say that those wars were right just cause most people agreed to them at the time. way more is going on then that and i think pubic opions had little to nothing to do with the moral vaule of those wars.
Too bad USA is Majority rule, be it for better or for worse. It's the best system in place to date, and I wont revert back to "the rich and powerful only get their say."
Actually you'll find, anyway, most Americans were NOT in favor of those two wars. They two wars Americans wanted was against Iran and Saudi Arabia. The two countries where the terrorists came from. Iraq was a personal Agenda since Bush Senior kind of helped him get into power.
as far as being impeached. goverment systems are in place acully so that leaders can make unpoplur but right distions. thats why instead of the goverment passing out blackberrys and every day everyone gets asked the questin of the day like should bill whatever be passed you let your leaders choice. so impeching is just silly at this point. unless you can find something crimal about what he is doing. and that is something you havnt touched on. so again i find it a odd commnet kinda outa no were.
sorry for the long talk. i wonder if a single person will read this whole thing
i dont really care i liked writing it.
Find something criminal? BRIBES are against the law. And it's oh so obvious that they are buying votes. Liberals and Conservatives both say this. You can be impeached for bribery. And that's what I'm talking about. I don't care about impeaching Obama, he'll be gone next election anyway.
I touched on it, you took it the wrong way.
>.> I'm a volatile debater, but don't take offense. I'm just getting started.