A GLOWing Mistake?

[ashoka1]

So merge is using chums and puppies ..

 

[DeletedUser]

As many of you are well aware, relations between GLOW and ~P~/~N~ are becoming increasingly fragile. However, the sequence of events leading to the fragile state seems to be in question. My intent with this post is to clarify the current situation, and air out past transgressions and possible future solutions. It may be that I'm entirely at fault for this ordeal, but I don't believe that to be the case. Since their leadership is talking in circles (one says something while another does something else), I'll let you guys offer advice/wisdom/whatever else you may have to add on the topic....

So either fight them or dont post about it here.... at the end of the day does anyone really care? Now if you were taking a principled approached and went to war, I could see the play to rally support in the public forums - in fact, I have a lot of respect for a man of principle....but as of right now it just looks like you are whining more than anything. Just get it over with. Nut up or shut up.....this is a Realist world, there is no such thing as justice. You have to serve it yourself.

 

[DeletedUser]

So either fight them or dont post about it here.... at the end of the day does anyone really care? Now if you were taking a principled approached and went to war, I could see the play to rally support in the public forums - in fact, I have a lot of respect for a man of principle....but as of right now it just looks like you are whining more than anything. Just get it over with. Nut up or shut up.....this is a Realist world, there is no such thing as justice. You have to serve it yourself.

If you didnt care why did you continue posting the rest of that nonsense?
Also, PnP is very big and although they're not warring this is something that the public eyes would love to see. Since we're not all active and in their conflicts, seeing what's going on elsewhere is really interesting.

 

[DeletedUser]

So (1) either fight them or dont post about it here.... at the end of the day does anyone really care? (2) Now if you were taking a principled approached and went to war, I could see the play to rally support in the public forums - in fact, I have a lot of respect for a man of principle....but (3)as of right now it just looks like you are whining more than anything. Just get it over with. (4) Nut up or shut up.....this is a Realist world, there is no such thing as justice. You have to serve it yourself.

In order of underlines:
1. We are already "fighting them", well at least Dude.
2. "Principled approach" and "went to war" don't go together here. My principle regarding wars is, "don't have a stupid war." 99% of GLOW's villages are still too far away for a war to be effective for either side. However, the other 1% (DUDE) wouldn't require a "war" to take.
3. Please point to specific examples of "whining". I certainly wasn't.
4. Brilliant, unless "justice" exists within the objective constraints of realism as pointed out by Hans J. Morgenthau in Politics Among Nations: The Struggle for Power and Peace, Fifth Edition, Revised, (New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1978, pp. 4-15

[Spoil]https://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/morg6.htm

4.......
Realism maintains that universal moral principles cannot be applied to the actions of states in their abstract universal formulation, but that they must be filtered through the concrete circumstances of time and place. The individual may say for himself: "Fiat justitia, pereat mundus (Let justice be done, even if the world perish)," but the state has no right to say so in the name of those who are in its care. Both individual and state must judge political action by universal moral principles, such as that of liberty. Yet while the individual has a moral right to sacrifice himself in defense of such a moral principle, the state has no right to let its moral disapprobation of the infringement of liberty get in the way of successful political action, itself inspired by the moral principle of national survival. There can be no political morality without prudence; that is, without consideration of the political consequences of seemingly moral action. Realism, then, considers prudence-the weighing of the consequences of alternative political actions-to be the supreme virtue in politics. Ethics in the abstract judges action by its conformity with the moral law; political ethics judges action by its political consequences. Classical and medieval philosophy knew this, and so did Lincoln when he said:
I do the very best I know how, the very best I can, and I mean to keep doing so until the end. If the end brings me out all right, what is said against me won't amount to anything. If the end brings me out wrong, ten angels swearing I was right would make no difference.

[/Spoil]

 

[DeletedUser]

I m not in glow you nub

Is that directed at me? I didn't think you were in GLOW. Not sure what made you think that.

 

[mattcurr]

Looks like merge using thier chums for pnp and then flaming glow.

Wouldnt be surprised if the first post was written after having consultation with merge.

But of course everything that happens in w67 only happens after consulting me:icon_rolleyes: Didn't you all the memo.. Are you at all serious? How did this become about merge

Personally I liked the thread and Glow's response, but brining my tribe into this is just stupid leave the topic about Glow and P for Christs sake.

Don't mind that we recently took on two of their players

One was kicked because he believes launching 12 hours away for the tribe is a waste, so a useless waste of an account and the other is an unstable former co-player who hijacked an account he didnt build, good finds there.

 

[ashoka1]

Huskers is my friend. No sucking up needed. And I don't see anything incorrect, it's fine.

Looks like merge using thier chums for pnp and then flaming glow.

Wouldnt be surprised if the first post was written after having consultation with merge.

To an outsider atleast seems that way.

Are we gonna see the same old approach of using other tribes to weaken enemy tribes or merge has the guts to fight a tribe half its size without using help from its chums and puppies

To an outsider it seemed that way.

And I m an outsider.

But of course everything that happens in w67 only happens after consulting me:icon_rolleyes: Didn't you all the memo.. Are you at all serious? How did this become about merge

Personally I liked the thread and Glow's response, but brining my tribe into this is just stupid leave the topic about Glow and P for Christs sake.

Are you the only duke of merge.

Or only you are authorized to speak on behalf of merge and your co leader is dummy

You r praised by all ...but mate its a team game ..too much of me and I isnt good.

Edit : read your edited post.thanks for clarifying.May be tribes involved knew but we outsiders thought otherwise.

Now we nubs know its all about glow and p

And merge wont get involved from either side

 

[mattcurr]

I have a co-leader now? Anyway shhh, you really are disrupting something good bye bye.

 

[DeletedUser]

(1)Personally I liked the thread and Glow's response, but brining my tribe into this is just stupid leave the topic about Glow and P for Christs sake.

(2) One was kicked because he believes launching 12 hours away for the tribe is a waste, so a useless waste of an account and the other is an unstable former co-player who hijacked an account he didnt build, good finds there.

1. There's been very little in the way of response from GLOW. Merely a solicitation for a pointless war that's 40 hours away for almost any village except DUDE.

2. Guess it's lucky we are closer to Clinthorn. We've already seen him send support. Pocket Aces seems to be working well for what our council decided to do when we took him on board. As you probably know, I was very against his joining our tribe, but so far it hasn't had a terrible result.


PS: Glad you edited your above post . It helped me bring it back to something semi-topical.

 

[DeletedUser]

To an outsider it seemed that way.

And I m an outsider.

I was joking with Husk. We're not friends. :icon_razz:

Not as much flaming as I expected so far. Keep up the good work, forums. :icon_biggrin:

 

[ashoka1]

you really are disrupting something good bye bye.

Old habbits die hard

 

[DeletedUser103537]

To an outsider it seemed that way.

And I m an outsider.


Are you the only duke of merge.

Or only you are authorized to speak on behalf of merge and your co leader is dummy

You r praised by all ...but mate its a team game ..too much of me and I isnt good.

Edit : read your edited post.thanks for clarifying.May be tribes involved knew but we outsiders thought otherwise.

Now we nubs know its all about glow and p

And merge wont get involved from either side

lol I think merge was only brought into this little argument cause of ~P~ duke. I mean they could have just not mention us. Not really need to mention us. Curious what tribe you in mate if your a outsider you don't need to say but I am curious.

 

[DeletedUser]

Not sure why those family tribes being so aggressive all of a sudden. Isn't it all about peaceful gaming, growing, sim-city-esque?

 

[DeletedUser]

2. Guess it's lucky we are closer to Clinthorn. We've already seen him send support. Pocket Aces seems to be working well for what our council decided to do when we took him on board. As you probably know, I was very against his joining our tribe, but so far it hasn't had a terrible result.

[SPOIL]

[/SPOIL]
You guys should be commended for your civic-minded acts. Thanks for taking out the trash!

 

[DeletedUser]

“As many of you are well aware, relations between GLOW and ~P~/~N~ are becoming increasingly fragile.”

– I was not aware; thank you for the enlightenment :icon_surprised:

“Huskerst0rm Mar 12,2013 16:09
I view solicitation of responses, especially when you haven't asked tribe leadership for permission as an act of war.”

- Kind of touchy group. I’d say for leadership of a Top Ten tribe, that is a rash response to a mail… unless you are genuinely afraid folks will actually leave. And even with that, too emotional a response IMO. :icon_neutral:

“As you can see, the warning/advice was given and accepted. The only reason a member in his location would leave our tribe is because he wants villages that are in our tribe. I've seen it occur many other times. He has no other incentive to leave.”

- Making a lot of assumptions… are you psychic? Looks like a member was unhappy, left. And your response looks like a break-up with your high school sweet-heart... strange. Stalk much? :icon_rolleyes:

“After this, I was notified that Dude was messaging members and attempting to get them to flip. Quite the sneaky tactic. It's clear what the intentions are, but GLOW prefers to play it dumb--something that doesn't work on me.”

- If a player has played alongside someone for 8 weeks, do you expect them to turn their backs on a dime?... of course he wants more folks he has played with around him. Though by your words alone, looks like that is what you are doing to Dude(?) though. :icon_idea:

“It's clear to me that #2 is not an option, even if it means hitting villages that are stacked. #1 is the only sensible solution. It sends a message to anybody else considering leaving that there are repercussions to defections. Dude's villages are at our core. Any potential expansion would require him to take our villages or DOA's villages--his intent when leaving.”

- Do you feel this the best move, truly? It’s a waste IMO. Waste of resources. Waste of troops. Waste of time. You focus on one player rather than the warring a tribe around you… leaves yourself open for enemies to strike (you seem to have called out Merge; maybe they do not like you either?) :icon_evil:

“The other solution:
GLOW could:
1. stop their attempts to poach our players.
2. stop attempting to deceive our tribe members.
3. Remove Dude from their tribe.
4. Actually attempt reasonable diplomatic relations. Seeding a tribe is obviously preparation for war.
5. Turn their focus on the real threat: TribeWhoMustNotBeNamedBecauseICantEverGetItRight. Especially as they are wasting their nukes on the player we are currently using to seed them, and have lost quite a few defensive troops from PocketAces attacks. There has never been a better opportunity for GLOW to take on #1 in their area. You/they (as many of you reading this will be of that tribe), are easily the favorites to win this world. If we keep doing stupid shit like this--and you continue your attempts to undermine our tribes, we will flat out hand them the victory for the SE corner.


Interested in your thoughts,
Huskerst0rm”

- While I enjoy the decently written PnP, seems like a rash post (similar to the tone of what seems to be transpiring between ~P~ and GloW) that ultimately will do nothing more than let your enemies know where your troops will be going. :icon_eek:

As requested, few thoughts laid out for you to read. Enjoy.

 

[DeletedUser]

I read whole post. Glow makes a really dumb move for not going against hugger tribe. This has happened in w63 aswell, a tribe started hugging the entire world without any major wars, allied itself with all the tribes around them and other tribes was so coward to make a move against a force that is 7-8 times of their tribe. Huggers used every problem in their allies and recruited any that is willing to join. When an action is decided, it was too late.

Glow will surely pay for their cowardy in the long run, and seeing a leadership that is so dishonourable and low I dont see a reason for their members to respect them. They probably stay together now as no other tribe creates a major threat to them, but when they do I think there'll be lots of defectors on their side.

Play it cool. This is just a game and its all about war and all that crap we all know, but dignity and respect in others eyes are what I think is most valuable. Greeks family leadership also plays low when they have a chance, ignoring diplomacy and attack NAPped tribes. This is probably what they have in return, an even more despicable leadership to deal with.

 

[DeletedUser]

I read whole post. Glow makes a really dumb move for not going against hugger tribe.

Not sure who you're referring to, Merge? Again this is a thread about ~P~ and GloW. Not relevant and if you're insisting we war Merge now while we deal with ~P~ I am uncertain of your tactical knowledge.

Anyway onto the main event. All in all I agree with SteelBarefoot, but I'd like to add a couple of things.

1) According to the stream of posts that Husker is writing, ~P~ have an incredibly stable and well structured family, right? In which case why is it that as soon as Dude0000579 left I received messages such as the following:

If I was more invested in this world I would be larger and might have asked for an invite in the future when my position was more favorable, but XXX takes most of my time. (EDITED TO PRESERVE IDENTITY.)

Long story short. ~P~ is to clustered and spread to thin with enemies on almost all fronts. They would be stupid to start attacks on Glow over one player. Plus it's not like there aren't others who will make the jump eventually.

Similarly you call out my mass mail as a noob move. Interesting well I'll explain myself to the forums then.
1) Joe is a hothead who you yourself in previous mails have pointed out to me this. Therefore I dealt with you. That was until you stopped replying. Awkward leaving me all alone, cold and without company. I figured your huge clustered family tribe might offer me some shelter so I mailed them all. Got some lovely new friends from it too :icon_biggrin:
2) You have so many members that the quickest way to find out who had an ounce of common sense once you stopped replying was to mass mail. Not so nooby of me really, although I do love how "united" your tribe is.
3) Quite frankly you have no idea how our tribe is run, what our plans are and Joe was even persuaded by a member of mine that he was the Duke when our profile quite clearly indicates who our leaders are, and when he's had past communication with us! I think that demonstrates in itself that sometimes talking to a Duke isn't the most appropriate way forward.

Not exactly a top quality leader there!

You guys made one really good point on your internal forums (oh yea we have access to them too because your tribe is really united and all that) about hitting Dude0000579 early. Shame that only one of your players actually had the competence to do it, and even that was only a few fake trains and some scouts. Shame you missed your window of opportunity.

 

[DeletedUser]

Nice wall of text. If you're that mad, just fight already. Stop dancing around the subject.

 

[DeletedUser]

Interesting Read Here.. Good PnP. Rooting for the Family tribe here. And the Responses from Glow so far Haven't exactly Been worthy of changing that opinion.

Mass mailing a whole tribe is just looking for war.. And so far your Justifications have fallen short. Poaching Tribe members and then mailing the opposing tribe members not to attack.. Good tactics by Glow but P isnt Really The tribe they should be Worrying about right now...

 

[DeletedUser]

– I was not aware; thank you for the enlightenment :icon_surprised:

- (1) Kind of touchy group. I’d say for leadership of a Top Ten tribe, that is a rash response to a mail… unless you are genuinely afraid folks will actually leave. And even with that, too emotional a response IMO. :icon_neutral:

- (2) Making a lot of assumptions… are you psychic? Looks like a member was unhappy, left. And your response looks like a break-up with your high school sweet-heart... strange. Stalk much? :icon_rolleyes:

- (3) If a player has played alongside someone for 8 weeks, do you expect them to turn their backs on a dime?... of course he wants more folks he has played with around him. Though by your words alone, looks like that is what you are doing to Dude(?) though. :icon_idea:

- (4) Do you feel this the best move, truly? It’s a waste IMO. Waste of resources. Waste of troops. Waste of time. You focus on one player rather than the warring a tribe around you… leaves yourself open for enemies to strike (you seem to have called out Merge; maybe they do not like you either?) :icon_evil:

- (5) While I enjoy the decently written PnP, seems like a rash post (similar to the tone of what seems to be transpiring between ~P~ and GloW) that ultimately will do nothing more than let your enemies know where your troops will be going. :icon_eek:

As requested, few thoughts laid out for you to read. Enjoy.

Geeze, I underlined everything. Guess I felt all of what you said was worth responding to. Well done!

1. I thought it was possible one or two members would leave. That always seems to happen. However, it was not a rash response. Poaching of members is a serious offense and needs to be met with a serious response. I made it clear early on in the process that we weren't going to take such measures lightly--and we haven't.

2. I am no psychic, but I have seen a conversation with him stating this very thing. However, I did not have access to the conversation in order to validate my point. You'll just have to accept it as fact. It's a common occurrence with aggressive players that get caught at the core of any tribe.

3. I didn't mean that Dude's tactic was sneaky. I meant GLOW getting their "in" and then using him to flip players was sneaky--as he's developed relationships with our members since the beginning of the world.

4. Yes, it's the best option. Have you seen our core? They rarely see conflict. This is the perfect opportunity for them to"waste" their troops so that they can build more. They are not in any sort of eminent peril, except from Dude. Merge is a long ways away from us--and they shouldn't like us (or at least me). I've played in other worlds where tribes developed that looked like they do. It's rare that tribes will all turn on them at once, so they are able to grow--almost inexplicably under the radar--and then when they make their move, it's too late for most. One can only hope for an internal breakdown. That said, our family has 3/4 the points that they do and 30 less villages, and a respectable ODA. When you consider that their SE force is only 1/2 their tribe, I'm much less concerned. They are smaller than GLOW and no bigger threat than Se7en--perhaps smaller because of the distance between us. Of course I would prefer their stat line, but that generally doesn't come with the "family tribe" set-up. Our strength comes from clustering and being patient.

5. The enemies already "knew where our troops were going". No sense in playing "hide the ball" from the rest of the world.


Thanks for the thoughts!