A GLOWing Mistake?

[DeletedUser]

As has been continually said for two months by people on the external forums. However, family tribes often win worlds and they do so by playing smart. I don't like family tribes. I fought family tribes every step of the way. However, when it was clear that's what we were doing, I began looking through previous worlds where family tribes worked and messaged many people that have formerly been in leadership roles within those tribes. Here are some of the key suggestions I've picked up for running family tribes:

Strategy for Family Tribes
1. Get 30% of the K in your family at the beginning.
2. Identify the top talents in your K.
3. Begin filtering the less skilled players out of your tribe slowly, while developing the more competent individuals at the same time. Remember, successes in the past do not equate with success in the future--it's highly dependent on individual effort in each world.
4. Secure your core.
5. Have continuous conflicts on the border to alleviate some of the boredom and stress that comes with the initial stunt to growth.
6. Slowly cannibalize your members as the (a) quit; (b) break rules; (c) become too annoying; (d) fall behind.
7. Organize your family based on cardinal directions.
8. Expand outwards as you cannibalize appropriate members inwards.

How our Family Tribes avoid "falling behind".
1. Cannibalism will reduce the number of members our tribe has, while maintaining the numbers of points--often without losses.
2. Our villages are increasing at about 27%/week. That's fairly comparable growth to Merge.
3. A summation of our family is 1.5 the size of #2, and 4/5 the size of #1. It doesn't seem that we are falling behind.
4. Our size actually matters when fighting us because we are capable of sending support. Merge is essentially functioning as two separate tribes--and each is still more spread out than our cluster.

It's clear that although there are negative repercussions to our current set-up, there are also positives. Stating that we will "fall behind" seems to be incredibly short sighted. That's not to say we will win this world. However, if a tribe does end up taking us down, they will collect a lot of ODA in the process

First let me explain my experience with leading as Realrees questioned it. I led a K25 rim tribe in w54, established my tribe at end of the first month and we gained control of %55 of the world by just 1 merge (gained 1 continent by that), rest of expansion was conquest and war spoils.

Saying that, I'll criticize Greeks family.

1- First problem is about your member count in this early level. Early game is most fragile era as you dont really know which players are experienced, know what they're doing. Of course you have to say you made some strict recruitment, but by judging afar I can say thats not as strict as it should be, and your family tribe consist a lot of noobs which really become annoying for experienced players. You should've get like 30-40 elite players(thats too much aswell,20-25 is perfect number) and get more recruits by eliminating other continental forces and recruit their elite players.

2- Second problem is about your internalling players. You do not internal players falling behind. Its exactly been 2 months and if you still cant decide which players are slow, you're not a good leader. I suggest making a circular mail respond test.

3- You keep recruiting. This is a war game, and there are truly players that plays it for fighting. The fact that all new worlds are full of farmer joes and vultures that grows on fallen tribemembers; there're still some old school players that remembers what this game was for. If you dont respect their wishes all you've left with will be players that criticize you for going to war and causing their armies to die while they can farm with them.

4- You dont respect diplomacies (although you said you also pissed off at your members individual act, you didnt take proper action after situation. And you say players who break the rules (b) should be cannibalized to reduce member count) How you treat your allies/NAPs will be very important in the long run, and Greeks' actions are noted by many tribes. Its not good.

5- Most importantly, all your actions are noted by your tribemates and as it seems some of them lost their respect to you. To be honest I cant understand how they joined a tribe like Glow, they took low diplomacy to a whole new level but still defection shows your members are discontent, probably about first 3 critics.

 

[DeletedUser]

First let me explain my experience with leading as Realrees questioned it. I led a K25 rim tribe in w54, established my tribe at end of the first month and we gained control of %55 of the world by just 1 merge (gained 1 continent by that), rest of expansion was conquest and war spoils.

Saying that, I'll criticize Greeks family.

1- First problem is about your member count in this early level. Early game is most fragile era as you dont really know which players are experienced, know what they're doing. (1) Of course you have to say you made some strict recruitment, but by judging afar I can say thats not as strict as it should be, and your family tribe consist a lot of noobs which really become annoying for experienced players. You should've get like 30-40 elite players(thats too much aswell,20-25 is perfect number) and get more recruits by eliminating other continental forces and recruit their elite players.

2- Second problem is about your internalling players. (2) You do not internal players falling behind. Its exactly been 2 months and if you still cant decide which players are slow, you're not a good leader. I suggest making a circular mail respond test.

3- (3) You keep recruiting. This is a war game, and there are truly players that plays it for fighting. The fact that all new worlds are full of farmer joes and vultures that grows on fallen tribemembers; there're still some old school players that remembers what this game was for. If you dont respect their wishes all you've left with will be players that criticize you for going to war and causing their armies to die while they can farm with them.

4- You dont respect diplomacies (although you said you also pissed off at your members individual act, you didnt take proper action after situation.(4) And you say players who break the rules (b) should be cannibalized to reduce member count) How you treat your allies/NAPs will be very important in the long run, and Greeks' actions are noted by many tribes. Its not good.

5- Most importantly, (5) all your actions are noted by your tribemates and as it seems some of them lost their respect to you. To be honest I cant understand how they joined a tribe like Glow, they took low diplomacy to a whole new level but still defection shows your members are discontent, probably about first 3 critics.

First, thanks for the response. I appreciate you taking the time to give your input. It was fairly well though out, and even seemed well-meaning at points. However, I'm not sure all of your facts are correct--and some of the statements are merely differences in style.

1. Recruitment must become stricter as the world progresses. Our family does have some n00bs within it--absolutely. They are incredibly annoying--even to me. Our leadership has decided to take a different approach with some of them. Most of the "n00bs" are in their first or second world. Some of them are competent and capable of learning. Those "n00bs" are worth keeping and bringing along for the ride. I remember when I was developed as a player. I wanted to quit because the game was semi-complicated and very time consuming. Even experienced players spend 3 months building yourself up and then can lose 30 villages in a day and be rimmed (thanks FOOLS on 63 for that experience). Point is--we have a player base that is deteriorating. People complain about the game "not being what it once was" because most of the experts left are condescending and unwilling to work with and teach the new generation of players. Those that are competent and humble, I'm more than willing to teach. It also generates loyalties that are unbreakable.

2. We have internalized roughly 80 people at this point. It will continue to go upwards as the world progresses. That's more than 50% of our current player base. Many of the lower pointed players left are around because they are great at forum checks, actively on skype, and add to our tribal community. That said, we still kick somebody out almost every day to internalize.

3. We absolutely keep recruiting. We took some of the best players from AOA, -RC-, SUPER, and Smallv. That will continue to happen as tribes capitulate/break apart. As this occurs, those falling behind are dropped at a greater rate.

4. I'm wondering if you read my post on the subject? It was on externals. As it was ultimately a leader's fault due to an ambiguous statement about the NAP, we could not do what Se7en asked for. I have apologized for said incident and continue to maintain--what I would say are good relations with Se7en's leader, UrFear. Even though our tribes are often at odds, I have great respect for him. He's a good player and a smart kid.

5. At this point, "some" appears to be just "one". That said, I'd actually be interested in hearing from Dude himself if he left due to a "loss of respect". So far, I haven't seen it phrased that way. It's clear to me that he feels constrained by our current tribal strategy and left to take villages.... Lucky for him, the rim is quite a bit less crowded.

 

[DeletedUser]

This game is a mathematical, analytical game as we all know. From posts submitted in this and previous threads I imagine Huskerst0rm has the perfect tribalwars brain. You are lucky to have him to guide you through the unique issues you face now and will in the future.

Stick with him and Joe guys. He is a cold calculator and Joe is passionate and loyal so you will know every issue is discussed heavily until a mutually beneficial compromise is achieved.

 

[DeletedUser]

Not sure who you're referring to, Merge? Again this is a thread about ~P~ and GloW. Not relevant and if you're insisting we war Merge now while we deal with ~P~ I am uncertain of your tactical knowledge.

Anyway onto the main event. All in all I agree with SteelBarefoot, but I'd like to add a couple of things.

1) According to the stream of posts that Husker is writing, ~P~ have an incredibly stable and well structured family, right? In which case why is it that as soon as Dude0000579 left I received messages such as the following:



Similarly you call out my mass mail as a noob move. Interesting well I'll explain myself to the forums then.
1) Joe is a hothead who you yourself in previous mails have pointed out to me this. Therefore I dealt with you. That was until you stopped replying. Awkward leaving me all alone, cold and without company. I figured your huge clustered family tribe might offer me some shelter so I mailed them all. Got some lovely new friends from it too :icon_biggrin:
2) You have so many members that the quickest way to find out who had an ounce of common sense once you stopped replying was to mass mail. Not so nooby of me really, although I do love how "united" your tribe is.
3) Quite frankly you have no idea how our tribe is run, what our plans are and Joe was even persuaded by a member of mine that he was the Duke when our profile quite clearly indicates who our leaders are, and when he's had past communication with us! I think that demonstrates in itself that sometimes talking to a Duke isn't the most appropriate way forward.

Not exactly a top quality leader there!

You guys made one really good point on your internal forums (oh yea we have access to them too because your tribe is really united and all that) about hitting Dude0000579 early. Shame that only one of your players actually had the competence to do it, and even that was only a few fake trains and some scouts. Shame you missed your window of opportunity.

1. You said you received mails? were are the other one's?

2. Im hot headed it is no secret but so is howboutdat i can show you mails to prove it? me and him are the same as you and husk are the same.

3. Our tribe is 'united' if you didn't notice pocket is still alive mail him and you will see 90-95% of the tribe sent some sort of support. Can you say that your tribe would do that?

4. Presuaded?

diehardkz on 16.03. at 02:04
I am the founder. I originated from w44 (Medflex) and w60 (Boxing Kangaroo).


I am a mixture of the two, I am calm, cool and collected but if you disrespect myself or my tribe/council members I will not hesitate to have you rimmed.


So, whats the deal here?


Mason
joeferrer on 16.03. at 02:00
I don't know can you? glow is up to three dukes so far so idk who are the one's i can talk to?


Howaboutdat- hot headed, rash, and quick to pull the trigger such as my self
reese- calm, collected, reasonable etc like husker so who are you?
diehardkz on 16.03. at 01:57
Hello Joe,


I'm Mason, duke of GloW. Is there something I can assist you with today?


Mason


My bad for thinking your a professional tribe and not one that use's childish games. According to him he is a baron which i don't know if he is or not but either way he is smarter and a better leader/player then you.

5. Your profile says it quite clearly? Our profile only has me on it for all you know we can have 5 dukes oh wait you have a spy right?

I'm not a top quality leader i don't denie it but you sure are you have your self surrounded with players that would jump to merge if you warred (sorry had to message you guise because i <3 lavander)

6. like husker said we have around 95-97% of loyal player's. Can you say the same? Im sure merge has a informant in your tribe just as easily as they have one in our's.

7. Missed our opportunity. If you didn't know offense builds faster then def and your main tribe is way to far from our's. he is at the core of our tribe we can throw nuke's all day not a issue.

8. One player? want me to kick that up to 150? I can do that with a few words and a circ and get the job done. Could you do that? i think not. Just ask merge how effective our circ's are. (sorry to mention you guise again)

9. I <3 lavender you are my fav merge player. want to merge ~P~ and ~N~ into merge? We would be unstoppable.

 

[DeletedUser]

The only mistake that has occurred here was joining ~P~ in the first place.

One of my biggest mistake was recruiting you. You left because of to many blue dot's? Lmao remember those dots can easily turn to read and then you will have your wish of targets to bad you wouldn't have a villa left to conquer.

Glow leadership you should have stacked him before as you guise apparently planned it. We did what you did with pocket who was under attacked and saved 9 villa's. had we actually attacked him full force as soon as he left your def troops would be sitting in ~P~ villas.

 

[DeletedUser]

First let me explain my experience with leading as Realrees questioned it. I led a K25 rim tribe in w54, established my tribe at end of the first month and we gained control of %55 of the world by just 1 merge (gained 1 continent by that), rest of expansion was conquest and war spoils.

Saying that, I'll criticize Greeks family.

1- First problem is about your member count in this early level. Early game is most fragile era as you dont really know which players are experienced, know what they're doing. Of course you have to say you made some strict recruitment, but by judging afar I can say thats not as strict as it should be, and your family tribe consist a lot of noobs which really become annoying for experienced players. You should've get like 30-40 elite players(thats too much aswell,20-25 is perfect number) and get more recruits by eliminating other continental forces and recruit their elite players.

2- Second problem is about your internalling players. You do not internal players falling behind. Its exactly been 2 months and if you still cant decide which players are slow, you're not a good leader. I suggest making a circular mail respond test.

3- You keep recruiting. This is a war game, and there are truly players that plays it for fighting. The fact that all new worlds are full of farmer joes and vultures that grows on fallen tribemembers; there're still some old school players that remembers what this game was for. If you dont respect their wishes all you've left with will be players that criticize you for going to war and causing their armies to die while they can farm with them.

4- You dont respect diplomacies (although you said you also pissed off at your members individual act, you didnt take proper action after situation. And you say players who break the rules (b) should be cannibalized to reduce member count) How you treat your allies/NAPs will be very important in the long run, and Greeks' actions are noted by many tribes. Its not good.

5- Most importantly, all your actions are noted by your tribemates and as it seems some of them lost their respect to you. To be honest I cant understand how they joined a tribe like Glow, they took low diplomacy to a whole new level but still defection shows your members are discontent, probably about first 3 critics.

1. We have a lot of players. we used to have almost 200 i think we did a good job with cutting members. we have past 99% of people's expectations already and we will continue til we are destroyed.

2. Their are player's willing to learn and i won't kick them if they have the drive to learn. Everyone was once a noob. whose to say one of my noobs won't turn out to be one of the world's best player's later on in game?

3.

full of farmer joes and vultures that grows on fallen tribemembers

If that was directed at me i nobled ares because he was quiting and asked me to noble it. why not it was a nice 5k villa.

4. As for diplo what am i to do? kick the offending member for violating a nap that didn't have strict terms? i was mad when he did it and i lost all my credibility because of it but i will not kick my member for that. I play/try to lead (im not good at all husker is the man though) for my members and if im gonna kick members for violating everything then theirs no point in having a tribe. I protect my member's and friend's to the end (Pocket was my friend one reason why i defied merge and took him in) and i will continue to.

I like to honor my naps and alliance's. prime example super/smallv. husker had ask me to drop them and war them for 3 weeks straight and each day i said no because i told them we were allys. eventually HE dropped them as i felt to bad to do it my self.

5. What do you mean exactly by all our actions are noted by your tribe members? Some lost their respect for husker? more like one who left for a stupid reason. Husker is loved by our tribe and the one's who don't like him (theirs a few as he can be strict which is where i come in and give hugs and kisses) love me.

To be honest I cant understand how they joined a tribe like Glow

I can't understand either. would make sense if they were near him.

Since when is 1 member's defection show mutiple members are discontent?

 

[DeletedUser]

As for diplo what am i to do? kick the offending member for violating a nap that didn't have strict terms? i was mad when he did it and i lost all my credibility because of it but i will not kick my member for that. I play/try to lead (im not good at all husker is the man though) for my members and if im gonna kick members for violating everything then theirs no point in having a tribe. I protect my member's and friend's to the end (Pocket was my friend one reason why i defied merge and took him in) and i will continue to.

I like to honor my naps and alliance's. prime example super/smallv. husker had ask me to drop them and war them for 3 weeks straight and each day i said no because i told them we were allys. eventually HE dropped them as i felt to bad to do it my self.

Then there is no point in anyone wanting to work with you if you don't care about diplomacy. Kinda stupid of you.

HE dropped them as i felt to bad to do it my self.

Looks like bad leadership to me.

 

[DeletedUser105209]

If i make a nap, and my tribe breaks it, the offending person will be expected to make amends. Thats my word they are shitting on. Accidents happen but if anyone within my tribe purposely broke our diplomacy, they would be kicked with nobles on the way.

I suppose this is why my tribe has 1 duke and 30 odd members, i hate incompetency.

 

[DeletedUser]

Then there is no point in anyone wanting to work with you if you don't care about diplomacy. Kinda stupid of you.



Looks like bad leadership to me.

I do care about diplomacy we can go and argue about this all day go look on page 2 of forums about me and you will read everything and learn what actually happened i didn't feel like writing a long as story about what happened between my member and their's.

How is that being a bad leader? I made a alliance and i had the intention of keeping it to the end. only sad thing is they turned out to be pretty bad.

 

[DeletedUser]

I do care about diplomacy we can go and argue about this all day go look on page 2 of forums about me and you will read everything and learn what actually happened i didn't feel like writing a long as story about what happened between my member and their's.

How is that being a bad leader? I made a alliance and i had the intention of keeping it to the end. only sad thing is they turned out to be pretty bad.

Again, bad leadership. You don't go making alliances here, there, and everywhere without any intention of what they are like as a tribe. Hmmm?

Yes, I have read it. You were willing to risk diplomacy with an entire tribe over one members stupid mistake, again poor leadership from you.

 

[DeletedUser]

If i make a nap, and my tribe breaks it, the offending person will be expected to make amends. Thats my word they are shitting on. Accidents happen but if anyone within my tribe purposely broke our diplomacy, they would be kicked with nobles on the way.

I suppose this is why my tribe has 1 duke and 30 odd members, i hate incompetency.

Agreed, they did the same thing and refused to hand the village back over. Instead of kicking the player or handing the village over diplomacy was ended because they did not want to hand it back over.

 

[DeletedUser]

Agreed, they did the same thing and refused to hand the village back over. Instead of kicking the player or handing the village over diplomacy was ended because they did not want to hand it back over.

Hand it back the guy was on rim and they wanted all of my member's villa's. has the guy had another villa i would have given him that villa and another in reutrn.

 

[DeletedUser]

Again, bad leadership. You don't go making alliances here, there, and everywhere without any intention of what they are like as a tribe. Hmmm?

Yes, I have read it. You were willing to risk diplomacy with an entire tribe over one members stupid mistake, again poor leadership from you.

They weren't to bad early in game so i made a alliance after some talks we were allys for about 4-5 weeks so sorry but i felt bad about ending it.

Thats fine think me a bad leader it doesn't affect me what's so ever.

 

[DeletedUser]

They weren't to bad early in game so i made a alliance after some talks we were allys for about 4-5 weeks so sorry but i felt bad about ending it.

Thats fine think me a bad leader it doesn't affect me what's so ever.

It does, because it may haunt you in the long run. Makes you a bad leader and your tribe look bad.

 

[DeletedUser105209]

It affects your reputation in game. If we were close and discussing diplo i would think twice about it knowing you betrayed your allies because you were too soft to deal with it properly.

 

[DeletedUser]

It affects your reputation in game. If we were close and discussing diplo i would think twice about it knowing you betrayed your allies because you were too soft to deal with it properly.

To soft to deal with it properly please explain how to deal with two tribes full of noobs when husker had more oda in our war then they had in our war put together. It's not so much betraying when they have nothing to contribute.

 

[DeletedUser105209]

HE dropped them as i felt to bad to do it my self.

That. Too Soft.

It is betraying if you make an alliance and then don't end it properly. It doesnt matter how worthy the tribe is, Its your word. If the relationship is no longer providing you with what you want, you end it properly.

You make me laugh when you throw around tribe full of noobs, you are in no position to be arrogant. You are at the rank your at because of mass recruiting. You have no great wars to bolster your rep, which to me equals no rep EXCEPT you don't honor your diplo which i guess means you have bad rep, sorry,

 

[DeletedUser]

Let me rephrase i was getting confused im sorry its very late and im tired. they dropped the alliance not us my bad their.

Tribe full of noobs. we have noobs but for the most part we have good player's so no we are not a tribe full of noobs. im not being arrogant a tall. Mass recruiting yeah a little got a issue with that? merge in to us. No great wars you don't no my past experience's and i will not brag about it. (under different name) i don't honor my diplo? that's fine i have terrible rep ill go cry in a corner.

 

[DeletedUser]

looooool essay

 

[DeletedUser]

Let me rephrase i was getting confused im sorry its very late and im tired. they dropped the alliance not us my bad their.

Tribe full of noobs. we have noobs but for the most part we have good player's so no we are not a tribe full of noobs. im not being arrogant a tall. Mass recruiting yeah a little got a issue with that? merge in to us. No great wars you don't no my past experience's and i will not brag about it. (under different name) i don't honor my diplo? that's fine i have terrible rep ill go cry in a corner.

Phew, finally. I was wondering why you put it on me, exactly. Here ya'll go, this is a random message I received one afternoon:

[spoil]

TWSupergirl Mar 05,2013 22:26
╔════════════════╗
[unit]snob[/unit]◊[ally]SUPER[/ally]◊[ally]SMALLV[/ally]◊[unit]snob[/unit]
╚════════════════╝




I have decided not to have [ally]~P~[/ally], [ally]~A~[/ally], [ally]~N~[/ally]'s shared thread in the forum.
There has been nothing but idle gossip and whining from tribemates who are not even council in there as far as I can see from both sides.


If you have any Noble Planner issues, or Ops/ Support issues you can take it up with our council.


Regards


*´¨)
¸.•´¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
(¸.•´ (¸.• [player]TWSupergirl[/player] Duchess Of [ally]SUPER[/ally]


Huskerst0rm Mar 05,2013 22:29
Just to clarify, you are dissolving our alliance?


TWSupergirl Mar 05,2013 22:40
Does this mail say that anywhere?


Huskerst0rm Mar 05,2013 22:41
I took it to mean that the alliance was dissolved. So did the other 3 council members currently online.


TWSupergirl Mar 05,2013 22:42
Husker surely you yourself can see that the shared forum has turned into a playground? Our guys and your guys are behaving like children.
We will do our dealings another way.


TWSupergirl Mar 05,2013 22:43
It does not say that it clearly states any nobling issues/ops/support issues leaders and barons will take care of it.


Huskerst0rm Mar 05,2013 22:45
Well, I believe you can consider the alliance terminated.


TWSupergirl Mar 05,2013 22:48
Ok no Problem.

[/spoil]


The bickering referred to was SUPER/Smallv's inability to abide by the rules we established when creating our "alliance" and a flame war between Fletch, TWsupergirl's husband and one of our members. Those rules prohibited barb nobling. It was a regular occurrence that barbs were nobled with 900 and even 293 points. Our family was busy dismissing people nobling 1900 point barbs, as was posted in our joint forums--they did nothing.

This is not to be mistaken, SUPER/Smallv established a good set-up for themselves on W63. There was some credence behind their credibility. Due to the continuance of W63 and also some real world issues for TWSupergirl, that were 100% excusable--and life changing--, they were unable to lead a tribe in this world that they were capable of leading in other worlds.

Joe refused to break his deal with them because he "thought it would look bad, and they were his friends." However, he should have clearly posted what was occurring here for the world to see. We did not because of the real life issues associated with TWsupergirl. My condolences to her. I'm excited to see what they do on W69.

Not only would he have been justified in breaking the alliance, but he should have after about 5 days of it. Joe leads with his heart. It's not altogether a bad thing.