DeletedUser
Guest
omg.. can we have this topic locked? :icon_eek:
DeletedUser
Guest
Therin, you probably got me there. He might have existed, but almost certain not in the form in 'debate' here.
If you wanna go that way, you can also say that Santa Clause comes from Sinterklaas (older Dutch/Flemish version of Santa as you know it) dating back to the end of the 19th century. He was based on St. Nicolas of Myra, a Greek Bishop from what is now known as Turkey, who did several good deeds for children or something.
What I want to say, if a story gets told over and over, certain things change, others are added and other things disappear. You could say, Santa is the spirit of that bishop that lives on, like Jesus lives on in many people's minds as well.
(Everybody, before you write me an angry note or call me satanic or something, please don't take this 'discussion' too serious. I'm not either...)
Show me 1 argument, where I got personal, when it was not a reply to someone getting personal towards me. And that also contains referring to old discussions, instead of referring to the topic at hand. Shouldn't be too hard, if you want to butt in here without adding anything to the issue and accusing me of something. Right?
If you wanna go that way, you can also say that Santa Clause comes from Sinterklaas (older Dutch/Flemish version of Santa as you know it) dating back to the end of the 19th century. He was based on St. Nicolas of Myra, a Greek Bishop from what is now known as Turkey, who did several good deeds for children or something.
What I want to say, if a story gets told over and over, certain things change, others are added and other things disappear. You could say, Santa is the spirit of that bishop that lives on, like Jesus lives on in many people's minds as well.
(Everybody, before you write me an angry note or call me satanic or something, please don't take this 'discussion' too serious. I'm not either...)
Got 1 for you as well: Look what the cat dragged in...
Show me 1 argument, where I got personal, when it was not a reply to someone getting personal towards me. And that also contains referring to old discussions, instead of referring to the topic at hand. Shouldn't be too hard, if you want to butt in here without adding anything to the issue and accusing me of something. Right?
Therin
Contributing Poster
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Well, I do agree with you there. I mean walk on water - pffft. In my opinion Jesus was proberly just a man like any other, but who spent his time helping people and so build up a following. He may have preached as a Jew, spreading ideas of God, and that is probably were people attached onto him.
Seeing as the Bible was written a far bit after his death... well suffice to say that I doubt 99% of what was said actually happened. Think of it like Chinese whispers - it may have started out as the truth but it got slightly embelished and distorted in the repeated telling.
Then again, some people speculate that Jesus is simply a recycled Mithra, a Persian God. Born 25th of December, 12 followers, considered a traveling teacher and healer, his sacred day was Sunday "the Lord's Day", the Mithra religion had a Eucharist or "Lord's Supper."... need I go on? Also kind of interesting how Mithras became quite popular with the Roman Legions... wasn't it them who spread Christianity in Europe?
Seeing as the Bible was written a far bit after his death... well suffice to say that I doubt 99% of what was said actually happened. Think of it like Chinese whispers - it may have started out as the truth but it got slightly embelished and distorted in the repeated telling.
Then again, some people speculate that Jesus is simply a recycled Mithra, a Persian God. Born 25th of December, 12 followers, considered a traveling teacher and healer, his sacred day was Sunday "the Lord's Day", the Mithra religion had a Eucharist or "Lord's Supper."... need I go on? Also kind of interesting how Mithras became quite popular with the Roman Legions... wasn't it them who spread Christianity in Europe?
DeletedUser
Guest
Hadn't heard about Mithra. Sounds pretty plausible that that was a good base for the story of Christ.
But who was he based on. ;-)
But who was he based on. ;-)
DeletedUser73665
Guest
Here we go again no wonder the world is in the mess it is in.
A complete lack of tolerance for anothers belief or point of view.
Yet again a debate turns into argument into intimidation into bullying
then to war.
It is good to learn to listen make your point then leave it.
Let every man follow his own path, your journey through life believe me
is very short and when you get near to the end of that path you start to realise how foolish even the most intelligent have been.
Wish you believers a Merry Xmas or whatever makes you happy for me to say, and to everybody else have a good time because there are not that many left.
A complete lack of tolerance for anothers belief or point of view.
Yet again a debate turns into argument into intimidation into bullying
then to war.
It is good to learn to listen make your point then leave it.
Let every man follow his own path, your journey through life believe me
is very short and when you get near to the end of that path you start to realise how foolish even the most intelligent have been.
Wish you believers a Merry Xmas or whatever makes you happy for me to say, and to everybody else have a good time because there are not that many left.
DeletedUser
Guest
If someones faith is as brittle that these arguments would make it fall, it was not very solid to begin with.
And what you say about nearing the end, is exactly what I said. When the end is near, people look for ways out. That's all. So I understand how faith began, I just don't believe any of it.
Chose to read, chose to react, but don't judge those that speak about it...
And what you say about nearing the end, is exactly what I said. When the end is near, people look for ways out. That's all. So I understand how faith began, I just don't believe any of it.
Chose to read, chose to react, but don't judge those that speak about it...
DeletedUser
Guest
The funny thing about Mithras is he got turned in some sort of 'War God' even though he was rather the opposite intentionally. I guess misconceptions are of all ages... :icon_wink:
DeletedUser
Guest
Like the Swastika was mirrored and turned from peace to war related...
slinkiestwizard
Guest
funny you would throw that out there after the old cartoon post, just a thought. And its so nice to see you would mention that in a thread like this..
This should be in General discussion if anywhere,
smart people never mention ,
religion , sports or politics on public forums it only causes fights and brings out the worst of people .
Merry Christmas all or what ever faith you follow
DeletedUser
Guest
Somehow I figured you would blab about that. So mentioning a sign (like I did), in your eyes, compares to calling people Nazi's (like TCO's dreaded cartoon). I know you said it was just a thought, but maybe you want to think about it just a little longer the next time, before you press send...
Not to mention that my post was totally related to the previous post.
And if you just ignore the ignorant people, smart people amongst themselves can have a normal conversation about any topic.
Not to mention that my post was totally related to the previous post.
And if you just ignore the ignorant people, smart people amongst themselves can have a normal conversation about any topic.
Therin
Contributing Poster
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Some people don't like disscussion of such topics because they either feel insecure in their own belief, or they feel this is an attack on said belief.
I'll takes is for one person to start derailing it from a friendly chat into a petty arguement and thinks can end in a great big train-wreck.
I'll takes is for one person to start derailing it from a friendly chat into a petty arguement and thinks can end in a great big train-wreck.
DeletedUser
Guest
Obivously it's pretty easy to derail this thread to a long-going discussion about Christianity. As I've grown-up in a pretty strong Catholic environment, I would not have a hard time going against the points made here. Then again I wonder whether I would actually feel the need to defend the faith against many of the short-sighted comments placed here.
I think that the original idea of hompsu was to make everyone aware of the fact that the faith which can be considered the most spread among the western civilization (obviously the use of this word can be debated as well), is based on a story of a certain person who, according to the believed story, gave his life, so everyone could live in peace. Whether or not it's true does not diminish the fact that we should all strive to look out for others and that we should be there for one another, as he did. Whether you actually believe in the person and the Holy Church and whatever else around it doesn't really matter here.
As christmas is coming, I think it's a good time to again remember and think of this, regardless of whether you believe in what is called Christianity.
I think that the original idea of hompsu was to make everyone aware of the fact that the faith which can be considered the most spread among the western civilization (obviously the use of this word can be debated as well), is based on a story of a certain person who, according to the believed story, gave his life, so everyone could live in peace. Whether or not it's true does not diminish the fact that we should all strive to look out for others and that we should be there for one another, as he did. Whether you actually believe in the person and the Holy Church and whatever else around it doesn't really matter here.
As christmas is coming, I think it's a good time to again remember and think of this, regardless of whether you believe in what is called Christianity.
DeletedUser
Guest
well, i am a troll, flame me, but i have lived and sung in a cathadral for the past 5 years, i have met the pope, and have seen all the things that the church hide from 'normal' people, the fact that the church chose which gospels to put in the bible, so the world could be run their way, there are many gospels written about how there should be no one religion, and no one man to be head of the religion i.e the pope, but of course they left that out so it could be done there way, what im trying to say here, is that the church isnt what you think it is and maybe you should look at how the world really is, not how it is portrayed by some crack heads 2000 years ago
DeletedUser
Guest
More or less.
Constantine followed the example of Augustus, who used the Cult of the Emperors to unite all the diverse peoples and cultures of the Roman Empire into a unified Roman people. Constantine became Emperor after a century of almost constant civil war and runaway inflation.
To unify the people of the Roman Empire he gave his support to 3 religions (all of which, incidentally, originated in the Middle East);
1. Sol Invictus (the Invincible Sun) was the religion of the army :icon_twisted:
2. Mithras was the religion for the educated and upper classes (it was a mystery religion, and you need a university education to understand mystery religions :icon_confused
.3. Christianity was the religion for the urban poor (promises of a better life, after you had died, so the peasants had something to look forward too :icon_wink
To streamline these religions Christmas was moved from late November to December the 25th so that all the major religions would have their holidays at the same time.
Full disclosure: I'm an atheist, but I'm also a historian with my specialty being the arrival and spread of Christianity in Western Europe.
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DeletedUser
Guest
Wow CTB lives!!! Now there's a famous name from another world. This guy IS God.
DeletedUser
Guest
We can see it from his avatar, he's at least a king :icon_razz:
DeletedUser
Guest
A Christmas topic to debate!!!
Since we are all throwing opinions out there, let me give you mine. Christmas is not about Jesus at all, in fact it has pagan origins (look it up). It is funny that when Jesus walked the earth he avoided pagan holidays that celebrated anyone but his father yet Christians celebrate a pagan holiday as the birth of Jesus.
What Christmas is a huge way for businesses to make money. The amount of greed I see when I go to stores during this time of year is unbelievable. People say Christmas is supposed to be a time of peace, family, and caring for fellow man. But the days building up to that day are full of people shoving others out of the way to get that 1 gift for their spoiled kid while someone elses gets disappointed or how people have gotten trampled on even to death because of some Black Friday sale. I believe in Jesus as god's son and my guess is he is embarressed to see how people act during this time of year all while "supposedly" bringing Jesus honor. You want to bring Jesus honor and obey him? Then read in the bible what he taught his followers to do when he was on earth. No where did he say we were to celebrate his birth but rather we were to celebrate his death which meant so much to mankind. You want to give your kid a gift? The best gift you can give any child is your love and time. Instead of busting your butt trying to earn an extra dollar to spend on him/her, take a day off and spend it with your child.
Feel free to flame me or debate me. You can all debate about Jesus and different religions but it all boils down to how we treat each other. Almost every religion out there teaches a basis on how we should treat others, how about if we all just follow that? Especially Blonde, that guy could use a hug. :icon_biggrin:
Since we are all throwing opinions out there, let me give you mine. Christmas is not about Jesus at all, in fact it has pagan origins (look it up). It is funny that when Jesus walked the earth he avoided pagan holidays that celebrated anyone but his father yet Christians celebrate a pagan holiday as the birth of Jesus.
What Christmas is a huge way for businesses to make money. The amount of greed I see when I go to stores during this time of year is unbelievable. People say Christmas is supposed to be a time of peace, family, and caring for fellow man. But the days building up to that day are full of people shoving others out of the way to get that 1 gift for their spoiled kid while someone elses gets disappointed or how people have gotten trampled on even to death because of some Black Friday sale. I believe in Jesus as god's son and my guess is he is embarressed to see how people act during this time of year all while "supposedly" bringing Jesus honor. You want to bring Jesus honor and obey him? Then read in the bible what he taught his followers to do when he was on earth. No where did he say we were to celebrate his birth but rather we were to celebrate his death which meant so much to mankind. You want to give your kid a gift? The best gift you can give any child is your love and time. Instead of busting your butt trying to earn an extra dollar to spend on him/her, take a day off and spend it with your child.
Feel free to flame me or debate me. You can all debate about Jesus and different religions but it all boils down to how we treat each other. Almost every religion out there teaches a basis on how we should treat others, how about if we all just follow that? Especially Blonde, that guy could use a hug. :icon_biggrin:
Therin
Contributing Poster
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Does it matter whether I'm clothed or not? idunno.
DeletedUser
Guest
Blonde has gone into hiding, since his hero Tiger Woods hit the headlines for 'his transgressions'.:icon_eek:
I'm sure that Christmas/old pagan festivals are popular for the following reason: We are in the depths of winter in Europe. Everything is dying. Everybody is depressed and feeling very low. Therefore Christmas is 'invented' so we can cheer each other up, have a few drinks and get through the dark, dreary days. It is no coincidence that Christmas and the winter solstice are so close together. Simply a survival mechanism for humans. The other option, would be to hibernate like Blonde.
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DeletedUser
Guest
Well, that's a funny thing. When people complain about the Christian part of Christmas they're being stupid. The Christian part of Christmas is fairly easy to avoid. However, if you want to take all the religion out of Christmas...well...that's not so easy.
Most of our Christmas traditions come from the old german religion (basically the same as Norse mythology) - the tree, holly and misltetoe, the decorations, the feast and the presents.
So, if you want to take all the religion out of Christmas - go to work at normal rates of pay :lol:
Then again, if we wnted to purge all the old german religious traditions (I don't use the word "pagan", because it's a wildly inaccurate term) we'd have to change the name of the days of the week as well :icon_eek:
Most of our Christmas traditions come from the old german religion (basically the same as Norse mythology) - the tree, holly and misltetoe, the decorations, the feast and the presents.
So, if you want to take all the religion out of Christmas - go to work at normal rates of pay :lol:
Then again, if we wnted to purge all the old german religious traditions (I don't use the word "pagan", because it's a wildly inaccurate term) we'd have to change the name of the days of the week as well :icon_eek:
