Evening

DeletedUser107233

Guest
good to see sasuke and mr moyles back again, W14 i think i was in the Gaia family or something like that lol.

I still think old tw was the best
 

arabela

Guest
Old tw was best because we didn't merge so much like these days, and we didn't have scripts or cos or w/e... we were setting alarms overnight to be able to noble someone during their sleep, we timed snipes using attack planner, etc :))

I remember Gaia. I was in Fail, great tribe...best tribe from all worlds I've been in...
 

Sasuke..

Guest
Oh, I miss the days when the alarm clock was ringing because of the noble train is ready to be sent ....... and not now, when it wakes me for work..
 

setorines

Guest
Yeah, I'd just like to go back to old TW and be as good as I am now. Lol There isn't a large market in japan so I tried joining on their server, but TW without communication is terrible. xD
 

DeletedUser93066

Guest
Old tw was best because we didn't merge so much like these days, and we didn't have scripts or cos or w/e... we were setting alarms overnight to be able to noble someone during their sleep, we timed snipes using attack planner, etc :))

I remember Gaia. I was in Fail, great tribe...best tribe from all worlds I've been in...
Just say you miss getting gang-banged and eventually rimmed :D

Oh, I miss the days when the alarm clock was ringing because of the noble train is ready to be sent ....... and not now, when it wakes me for work..
You did that? I used to set alarm to let me know I should go to sleep cause I had work in 3 hours, and I should take a Nap? I slept on my desktop keyboard more than my pillows ;r
 

Aliyah

Guest
Old tw was best because we didn't merge so much like these days, and we didn't have scripts or cos or w/e... we were setting alarms overnight to be able to noble someone during their sleep, we timed snipes using attack planner, etc :))
I read this earlier today and I was feeling all nostalgic and thinking yea, it was so better in the old days!

Then I just happened to be looking at a web site and saw this:

[spoil]
[/spoil]

and thought Jeeesh I really prefer this:

[spoil]
[/spoil]

The previous now makes my eyes bleed.

This is not really anything to do with what you said specifically. I just found it interesting to compare. I'm sure others have much better images and nostalgia to share. Just happened to be what I came across today after reading this.

I never ever want to go back to the place where I am getting up at 3am to send trains and snipe. Hence the need for co-players and scripts, I suppose. Nostalgia's great but there are a lot of positive additions to the game though, that thankfully, kept it alive long enough for us to still be able to come and reminisce about how things used to be. It's like anything I suppose we tend to look back on the past more fondly. I do - but seeing this made me appreciate the benefits of some of the changes too. :)

 

Tata Steel

Guest
I read this earlier today and I was feeling all nostalgic and thinking yea, it was so better in the old days!

Then I just happened to be looking at a web site and saw this:

[spoil]
[/spoil]

and thought Jeeesh I really prefer this:

[spoil]
[/spoil]

The previous now makes my eyes bleed.

This is not really anything to do with what you said specifically. I just found it interesting to compare. I'm sure others have much better images and nostalgia to share. Just happened to be what I came across today after reading this.

I never ever want to go back to the place where I am getting up at 3am to send trains and snipe. Hence the need for co-players and scripts, I suppose. Nostalgia's great but there are a lot of positive additions to the game though, that thankfully, kept it alive long enough for us to still be able to come and reminisce about how things used to be. It's like anything I suppose we tend to look back on the past more fondly. I do - but seeing this made me appreciate the benefits of some of the changes too. :)

The old version didn't have these gameplay destroying p2w features. Therefore if I had a choice between a game that relies on hard work and skill to reach the top, or game that you can pay to reach the top, even if it looks glossier, I'll opt for the former version every day of the week.
 

setorines

Guest
People saying you have to pay are wrong. You don't have to pay, you have to farm. If you farm well enough you'll have excess resources to sell and you'll be able to use those premium features for free. I went from level 10 smithy to level 20 smithy in 1 day, and didn't spend a dime. Heck I haven't spent any money on this game since I was in middle school back on world 7.

The premium features were really bad until they added the option to sell for premium. Now it's customers vs. suppliers, and the suppliers usually have more skill.
 

Tata Steel

Guest
People saying you have to pay are wrong. You don't have to pay, you have to farm. If you farm well enough you'll have excess resources to sell and you'll be able to use those premium features for free.
That does not address the issue at all. What happens when you come up against someone whom is both farming and using the p2w options? He will have more resources to spend than you because he's paying 20% less for every building upgrade he has to do. Not to mention what you get from farming varies because if you're neighbours are also farming, and occasionally spiking, then you won't bring in enough resources to keep your queues going. Whereas this 20% p2w reduce build cost option is an unchangeable constant that does not depend on what others are doing. Here I'm just mentioning one feature, when you combine all of the other features the advantage is monstrous.

Here's an easy to understand example: for arguments sake lets say we cloned you, we then put you and your clone's village within 2 fields of each other ingame. Your clone has an unlimited amount of pps to spend, who do you think is going to be the eventual winner of a confrontation in this scenario? P2w features gives the person that is willing to spend the most an advantage that damages the integrity of the game, that is an indisputable fact.


The premium features were really bad until they added the option to sell for premium. Now it's customers vs. suppliers, and the suppliers usually have more skill.
Again you're assuming it will only be players less experienced than yourself using these p2w options, a competent player who uses p2w features efficiently will beat a more experienced player because; he will have a better developed village and more troops than you.
 

KutiyaKripya

Guest
Well guys, InnoGames has to make profit and for the game to survive they have to put in such features. Ofcourse, they do give an unfair advantage to the ones with more amount of PP with them.

But, it throws a new challenge at the experienced players. Even the quests and militia help the newbie players in doing startup in the right fashion. So, all in all experience does help and will help you survive no matter. Also, the newer players will have more chances of surviving and if they are good, they can make lot of progress.

I think the one who came up with the idea of including PP in market is a genius.
 

Tata Steel

Guest
Well guys, InnoGames has to make profit and for the game to survive they have to put in such features. Ofcourse, they do give an unfair advantage to the ones with more amount of PP with them.
I do not accept the premise that they had to put in these p2w features, Tribal Wars existed for a long time without such features. It is logical to assume they were also making a profit from TW during this time, otherwise Innogames would have gone bust, instead they have become a very successful business off the back of the profits they made from TW.

But, it throws a new challenge at the experienced players.
You're assuming that it will only be inexperienced players that will be using these p2w features. What is an experienced player suppose to do when he comes up against a competent/reasonable player that uses these features constantly?

Also, the newer players will have more chances of surviving and if they are good, they can make lot of progress.
Now you're assuming that all newer players will be using these features. What happens to the newer player who comes up against an experienced player using the p2w features?
 

setorines

Guest
Sorry to break it to you mate, but an experience player will beat a noob every time. I don't care if it's a noob using premium features or a pro using premium features, or both.

I don't care if there are two good players, one is using premium, and the other not. The better player still wins. ESPECIALLY on this world! I mean a 250ms gap between nobles? FCS mate that's a 750 MS train as a minimum. If the player is actually good he can cut the train coming at him. Or perhaps call for support. Maybe backtime? Like seriously? this is a game of skill.

PP buys you points, but points don't win wars. And for everyone waiting for the old cliche that "troops win wars" You're wrong. Skill wins wars. Being able to outplay your opponent is what matters the most. In some cases being able to outplay your opponents entire turtle tribe to make sure their troops are in the wrong place. Or seeing when your target goes to sleep and launching your train then. Perhaps talking into an alliance and getting some mates to send in counter snipes. (later on you can send them yourself.) This is a game of tactics and skill, where the overall goal is to get more points. Premium gives you a short hand advantage, but the growth of someone who knows what their doing will pass up the growth of those who are just throwing their wallets at the screen.
 

Frozen Flaim

Guest
You do realise that you can use the p2w features without buying PP for cash, right? Anyone with half a brain will have made a stack of PP at the start of the world when you can get maximum PP for your resources, then used that PP to save resources and make a giant profit with the 20% cheaper option on the expensive buildings later on. This doesn't even include buying low and selling high on the market which lots of people do, but i havn't bothered with as of yet.

For example, i started this world a week late and havn't bought a single PP for real cash. I currently have 3,249 PP that i have made from selling resources during the first week, and i have already made those resources back tenfold by using the p2w features to reduce the build cost of smithy and farm levels. I've also managed to climb into the top 150 whilst doing this, and easily have enough PP to pay for my premium and FA for a good year or so.

So in summary, yes of course p2w does give players an advantage, but the effects are dramatically reduced if you know how to use the system correctly.
 

KutiyaKripya

Guest
I do not accept the premise that they had to put in these p2w features, Tribal Wars existed for a long time without such features. It is logical to assume they were also making a profit from TW during this time, otherwise Innogames would have gone bust, instead they have become a very successful business off the back of the profits they made from TW.
You should check the drop in number of players playing in 2007/8 and today. Check statistics and you will get an idea. Also, who does not like to make more money, if it is on offer?



You're assuming that it will only be inexperienced players that will be using these p2w features. What is an experienced player suppose to do when he comes up against a competent/reasonable player that uses these features constantly?
He will have to excel,that is it. If you have skill, you survive and thrive and make PP and use it. Most experienced players also use p2w. Actually, almost everyone does. A few might bitch about it, but they themselves will be cutting cost of farm by 20%. :lol:



Now you're assuming that all newer players will be using these features. What happens to the newer player who comes up against an experienced player using the p2w features?
I said that about quests. Read it properly. I said quests help the newbies to understand on how to build a village and not just mines.
 

Tata Steel

Guest
Sorry to break it to you mate, but an experience player will beat a noob every time. I don't care if it's a noob using premium features or a pro using premium features, or both.
The terms "experienced" and "pro" mean the same thing. If your intention was to say that an experienced player not using premium features will beat an experienced player that is using p2w features (which is how it reads). Then your statement is a non sequitur.

I don't care if there are two good players, one is using premium, and the other not. The better player still wins. ESPECIALLY on this world! I mean a 250ms gap between nobles? FCS mate that's a 750 MS train as a minimum. If the player is actually good he can cut the train coming at him. Or perhaps call for support. Maybe backtime? Like seriously? this is a game of skill.
If two players are "good" how do you define which is the better one? Why are you concluding that a good player that doesn't use p2w features will beat a good player that does? The rest of the paragraph you list a lot of random hypothetical scenarios that bare no relevance at all to whether p2w options give someone an advantage. Red herring fallacy 101.

PP buys you points, but points don't win wars. And for everyone waiting for the old cliche that "troops win wars" You're wrong. Skill wins wars. Being able to outplay your opponent is what matters the most. In some cases being able to outplay your opponents entire turtle tribe to make sure their troops are in the wrong place. Or seeing when your target goes to sleep and launching your train then. Perhaps talking into an alliance and getting some mates to send in counter snipes. (later on you can send them yourself.) This is a game of tactics and skill, where the overall goal is to get more points. Premium gives you a short hand advantage, but the growth of someone who knows what their doing will pass up the growth of those who are just throwing their wallets at the screen.
Again you're assuming that all the players using these p2w features are idiots that do not know what they're doing.

For example, i started this world a week late and havn't bought a single PP for real cash. I currently have 3,249 PP that i have made from selling resources during the first week, and i have already made those resources back tenfold by using the p2w features to reduce the build cost of smithy and farm levels. I've also managed to climb into the top 150 whilst doing this, and easily have enough PP to pay for my premium and FA for a good year or so.
Basing an argument on one's own personal experience, then passing it off as evidence is grotesquely fallacious. For example, it's like me saying: it always rains in Dorchester because every time I have visited Dorchester it was raining.

So in summary, yes of course p2w does give players an advantage, but the effects are dramatically reduced if you know how to use the system correctly.
No they are not. You are presupposing only favourable conditions which is ofc a fallacy.

EDIT IN: my reply to KutiyaKripya

You should check the drop in number of players playing in 2007/8 and today. Check statistics and you will get an idea. Also, who does not like to make more money, if it is on offer?
The problem is not Innogames wanting to make more money, it is how they're doing it i.e. by damaging the integrity of the game.

He will have to excel,that is it. If you have skill, you survive and thrive and make PP and use it. Most experienced players also use p2w. Actually, almost everyone does. A few might bitch about it, but they themselves will be cutting cost of farm by 20%. :lol:
How do you thrive when your experienced opponent (that's using p2w features) has a better developed village and more troops than you?

I said that about quests. Read it properly. I said quests help the newbies to understand on how to build a village and not just mines.
I did not quote that sentence, I quoted the one after it.
 
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DeletedUser107233

Guest
i can remember back in World 2 and world 4 having a max marketplace just for sending resources from one town to another just to get nobles in that village, best thing they did was make it that all village academies are connected for bundles and coins.
 

arabela

Guest

Then I just happened to be looking at a web site and saw this:

[spoil]
[/spoil]

and thought Jeeesh I really prefer this:

[spoil]
[/spoil]

The previous now makes my eyes bleed.

This is not really anything to do with what you said specifically. I just found it interesting to compare. I'm sure others have much better images and nostalgia to share. Just happened to be what I came across today after reading this.

I never ever want to go back to the place where I am getting up at 3am to send trains and snipe. Hence the need for co-players and scripts, I suppose. Nostalgia's great but there are a lot of positive additions to the game though, that thankfully, kept it alive long enough for us to still be able to come and reminisce about how things used to be. It's like anything I suppose we tend to look back on the past more fondly. I do - but seeing this made me appreciate the benefits of some of the changes too. :)

Lisa, none of us is here to play this game for its graphic. We can chose many other games, if graphic is the one that interests us. No, we are here to play a strategy game that has an awful graphic, still, despites the efforts to improve, like you already showed. The game improved by adding scripts and things we weren't able to use old times. This is the change that matters for us, not adding an warrion in the background and make the page more brown.

Old days were about each of us skills and power to find solutions to overplay others around us by our own skills and abilities. :) It is about how we handled the idea of losing and how much some of us were stubborn to accept the defeat and fight till end. Also, it was about PNPs and how much effort players invested to make the game better.

It has nothing to do with Inno , but we thank them for all their efforts ;)