Ex v TRE, Clearing the truth from the lies

[bronzed]

When erixson was under attacked I couldn't support him as i was sitting him, yano basic sitter rules, when Lish needed them he was going to tell me where he wanted them but it wasn't needed in the end, and at this moment in time my support isn't at home so I can't send it anywhere

Lish has said no one has to noble outside of their cluster if they don't wish to, which I don't wish to , and why would I want to go out and make new clusters, when to be perfectly honest we have members like you who will probably turn your back on TRI the first chance you get. Seems silly to me to have half a dozen decent strength areas when i could have 1 very very strong cluster.

Say what you want but I seen the proof that you was planning on getting stunts merged into Bunnies, and Chris saying he had nothing to do with it, and Chris saying he didn't think you or thee had the ability to be duke of the tribe, which is why when you two went behind his back, he made a plan with nathan which had you taken out of Stunts because he knew you was to pig headed to let anyone else lead it, and knew you didn't have the ability to lead it yourself and had a TRE council member go down to stunts to manage things, thats the only reason a TRE council member went to stunts, that was never the plan at all but Nathan and Chris didn't trust you, and didn't trust your abilities.

I do love how in these discussions you have defended iGouge, Bunnies and Ex, yet never once had tried to defend TRI, so why the hell are you in the tribe? Or is it because you lack the balls to leave TRI? Maybe thats why I don't trust some people in this tribe, maybe you should go back to spying eh? (And denying it, but it is funny how Hobos knew something only Me, you and Lish would of known )

 

[DeletedUser]

Lish has said no one has to noble outside of their cluster if they don't wish to, which I don't wish to , and why would I want to go out and make new clusters, when to be perfectly honest we have members like you who will probably turn your back on TRI the first chance you get. Seems silly to me to have half a dozen decent strength areas when i could have 1 very very strong cluster.



I do love how in these discussions you have defended iGouge, Bunnies and Ex, yet never once had tried to defend TRI, so why the hell are you in the tribe? Or is it because you lack the balls to leave TRI? Maybe thats why I don't trust some people in this tribe, maybe you should go back to spying eh? (And denying it, but it is funny how Hobos knew something only Me, you and Lish would of known )

Bronzed if you are going to hide in one spot the entire time you will never find an enemy, wich ruins the beauty of the game (fighting). That is just a cowards excuse to hide from all action. And if you dont want to be attacked by your own tribe, start freaking doing something for them. If you would have been in Ex you would have been dismissed a long time ago. It shouldn`t be allowed to have such a big acc as you, and such an incredibly low OD, at the same time as you continue hating on your own tribe mates in the public forums.

And I think you talk to much shit about your own tribe mates. You say that Ascension would stab them in the back at any time, when you yourself doesn`t even support them. I have incomings from his acc so I know that he at least participates in operations and fights for his tribe. And you have at several points said that you dont even trust the other members in TRI, is that what you call "defending" your tribe in these discussions?? By saying that you dont trust them, and wont support them?? You are a hypocrite Bronzed. Ascension has earned his place in TRI ten times more than you.

 

[DeletedUser94483]

Also what does nobling have to do with attacking?

 

[Demonshadows96]

Lish has said no one has to noble outside of their cluster if they don't wish to, which I don't wish to , and why would I want to go out and make new clusters, when to be perfectly honest we have members like you who will probably turn your back on TRI the first chance you get. Seems silly to me to have half a dozen decent strength areas when i could have 1 very very strong cluster.

There's actually several different reasons to have multiple clusters that are spread out actually, from a tactical standpoint. Having multiple clusters allows you to send your own long-range support and nukes when your under attack. For example, if you started a small cluster close to Ex and started attacking them, you could send support and clearing nukes from your own back-line clusters, thus easing the burden on your tribe-mates. Secondly, its a good way of preservation. If you have clusters in three or four different K's, then even if one of your clusters gets overrun, you aren't totally wiped out. And finally, you need clusters in several areas just for growth. If you stay in one area, eventually all you're going to be nobling are internals and barbs. Which you seem to have been doing for the past couple of months and it doesn't seem to bother you. Granted, every tribe needs a couple of people that are willing to noble out large inactive accounts in the backlines, just to get the villages back and put them back to good use. But that strategy only works, and you can only claim to be a vital part of your tribe, if you then use those villages to send support and clearing nukes to front-line wars which, based on the posts of other people on here, hasn't been happening. If you're not helping out your tribe with the villages that you're nobling from inactive tribe-mates, you're just leeching off of your tribe:/

Say what you want but I seen the proof that you was planning on getting stunts merged into Bunnies, and Chris saying he had nothing to do with it, and Chris saying he didn't think you or thee had the ability to be duke of the tribe, which is why when you two went behind his back, he made a plan with nathan which had you taken out of Stunts because he knew you was to pig headed to let anyone else lead it, and knew you didn't have the ability to lead it yourself and had a TRE council member go down to stunts to manage things, thats the only reason a TRE council member went to stunts, that was never the plan at all but Nathan and Chris didn't trust you, and didn't trust your abilities.

It's like you didn't even read my post mate. As I said, Chris/Ascension always wanted Bunny to merge into Stunts, not the other way around. I was the one who wanted Stunts to merge into Bunny. There may have been one time, after I showed Ascension proof that TRE was trying to sell out Stunts to iGouge as food in exchange for a NAP, that Ascension considered merging into Bunny. Obviously that didn't happen, but you can't fault him for considering the idea when he just found out that TRE was willing to throw Stunts under the bus.

I do love how in these discussions you have defended iGouge, Bunnies and Ex, yet never once had tried to defend TRI, so why the hell are you in the tribe? Or is it because you lack the balls to leave TRI? Maybe thats why I don't trust some people in this tribe, maybe you should go back to spying eh? (And denying it, but it is funny how Hobos knew something only Me, you and Lish would of known )

If you don't trust your tribe-mates and believe that there's a chance they will attack you, why are YOU in TRI?

 

[DeletedUser]

Lish has said no one has to noble outside of their cluster if they don't wish to, which I don't wish to , and why would I want to go out and make new clusters, when to be perfectly honest we have members like you who will probably turn your back on TRI the first chance you get. Seems silly to me to have half a dozen decent strength areas when i could have 1 very very strong cluster.

Yeah seems silly too me as well, especially when your getting free internals and barbs in your 'strong cluster'

Say what you want but I seen the proof that you was planning on getting stunts merged into Bunnies, and Chris saying he had nothing to do with it, and Chris saying he didn't think you or thee had the ability to be duke of the tribe, which is why when you two went behind his back, he made a plan with nathan which had you taken out of Stunts because he knew you was to pig headed to let anyone else lead it, and knew you didn't have the ability to lead it yourself and had a TRE council member go down to stunts to manage things, thats the only reason a TRE council member went to stunts, that was never the plan at all but Nathan and Chris didn't trust you, and didn't trust your abilities.

I do love how in these discussions you have defended iGouge, Bunnies and Ex, yet never once had tried to defend TRI, so why the hell are you in the tribe? Or is it because you lack the balls to leave TRI? Maybe thats why I don't trust some people in this tribe, maybe you should go back to spying eh? (And denying it, but it is funny how Hobos knew something only Me, you and Lish would of known )

umm, ReignBlood was not duking he only closed the stunts forums when he was there. The merge was planned to happen in different batches, the first will be the important players, second good players, and third the rest because TRE did not have enough space at the time. Ofcourse i had to move in the first batch, Nath wanted someone to keep Stunts in control throughout the merge so Reignblood was sent down there.

I have never defended Igouge,

And, i don't feel the need to defend against TRI, because i don't see any one accusing us of anything we didn't do. bronzed i think you are the one who should leave, you are just lucky, Nath didn't want to kick you because you are a big player. I EARNED my place in TRI, i was on the frontlines in the Bunny war, in the FU war and the EX war. Where did you think i got my 10mil OD from? You have half my OD and double my points. I am 14-15 in the war ranking, with 1.6mil ODA, you are BLOODY 0-0 with 0 ODA, why do you think you earned your place in TRI? You helped nothing in the war, instead your making Ollivander noble barbs and you taking it off hm so you don't have to use troops. I was involved in the gnarvetheviking OP, 160hours away from me, i was part of the red viper, olrak, sanman, ydmec, razerteo and warlord OP. You have participated in NONE and your excuse was if TRI could do a half-organised OP then you'll participate, why don't you organise one for us? And, i help out other players, in the anniversary challenge, helping others get awards, sending rez to build up small players, what have you done for our tribe? Don't give me that EX/FU BS because you did not even fight in those wars.

yeah, i should go back to spying. Have i leaked anything from TRI to HR, MW or EX? No, i haven't. This is why EX got pissed with you, you blindly accuse them for something they haven't done, as well as FU.

 

[bronzed]

chris earned the account but when it comes to you, some last words from nathan

[21/06/2013 23:47:31] Nathan Sharpe: Yeah demon adn ascension are completely wrong about offering to igouge, they only got peices of a conversation and not thw whole thing. I have stated before how I hadn't planne dto offer them and hell they are the reason we went to war with iGouge because I wasn't going to let them take our players. An example is Erixson, igouge wanted him nobled out, I said no.... If I offered up Stunts why are they still here? And half of them were from TRE or wanted to be in TRE, I see no reason to let them be taken out for peace lol. I only ever protected Stunts from iGouge as if they were offered up they frankly wouldn't be here right now. But they are and I'm happy they are. They can ask the council members if I ever for a second mentioned giving up Stunts, the reply you will get is no. So just ignore them about that fact because all they got is false info which I pubicly denounced in the forums (as you and others may rememeber). Although I don't play I still read the forums and keep up with the world and when people are wrong or lying like is happening I'm not going to accept being called this and that when I know it wasn't true. Just thoguht I'd get that to you as you are having a 'heated' deiscusion with them and that point above seems to be on eat the current time.
[21/06/2013 23:48:27] Nathan Sharpe: In other words they either don't know what they are on about, don't have all the infomation or don't get what was written
[21/06/2013 23:51:06] Craig Weston: well i hope you think i've been fair wih you you know i thought you was to soft but i felt we got on
[21/06/2013 23:55:39] Nathan Sharpe: Yeah I agree, I only became duke at the time as people wanted it and had little experience as duke prior to it also had exams coming up etc hence resigning due to not being effective and having the time to do so. I quit as although I just finished exmas I kind of lost motivation and stopped enjoying the game as much but I'm sure I'll be back playing the game in a couple months or so. I'm not complaining about what you think about my leading but at the fact demon and acsension have no idea what they are talking about in regards to stunts, we went to war with igouge over Stunts, that alone shows I never wanted to give them stunts. Keep an eye on him and tell Lish to do so, I have a feeling he talks to outsiders judging from his relations with Ex and that he has been swayed by hotrex previously
[21/06/2013 23:56:01] Nathan Sharpe: So is suseptable to do so again
[21/06/2013 23:58:32] Craig Weston: why not say all this in the public forum?
[00:00:19] Nathan Sharpe: I can't be bothered to argue you know that's not my style as you know :L I know they are wrong and have proven so previously but they obviously didn't believe it then so I doubt they will even if I tried again.
[00:02:45] Craig Weston: so the bunnies thing, do you think he was trying to get stunts into bunnies?
[00:04:37] Nathan Sharpe: I think they had discussed it but I am doubtful more than half of stunts would have left anyway and those that did would have been taken out pretty easily to be honest. Besides we took on the only good few left in bunnies anyway


I liked this bit

Keep an eye on him and tell Lish to do so, I have a feeling he talks to outsiders

even the former duke thinks your a spy

 

[Deleted User - 4669627]

Alright thought about it long and hard and yes Ascension I have been the one calling hobos homeless tribe lazy not bronzed.

Also to the person complaining that we should not be flaming them because HR are whooping on them making their fight against us harder....tactical common sense...do not start a war with a tribe you are allied with if you can not handle the war you are currently in...two front wars are harder and if you are not in the positive on one side do not START the other one if you do not have to...so their stats are theirs to stand on and no matter how much HR are kicking their backsides...they opened this door and they must stand on their stats.

meh

i did not say you should not talk shit, i said the shit that could be legitimately talked was limited, considering the circumstances
certainly you have grounds and reason to flame their choice to declare
nobody was questioning your stats, nobody was questioning you or tri

acting as if there were a legitimate possibility of them launching some kind of counter op is beyond the scope of what can realistically be flamed upon
Ex has been fighting the rank 1 and 2 tribe for 6 months, and now they are fighting the rank 3 tribe as well

nobody was questioning you or tri
nobody is accusing you of gang-banging Ex or betraying them, obviously they declared on you
they merged a tribe you were fighting and it could have gone either way
you got the upper hand
kudos to you and yours

if you want to talk shit, that is your right, but the circumstances are what they are, so there is only so much shit that can be legitimately talked
Ex being lazy is not something that can be substantiated
despite being actively engaged with the 2 most active tribes, they engaged the next most active tribe
they are anything but lazy
the fact they do not launch a counter-op does not suggest laziness, it suggests inability
to expect any tribe in their position to do more is simply not realistic at this point

fyi, it was not just the 2 of you suggesting they should be doing more, not that it matters who it was
if it did matter, i would have quoted folks
i was not speaking to just those people either, i was speaking to anybody who might be reading this thinking Ex could be or should be doing more than they are
it was not any person i had an issue, just the idea

the purpose of the thread was to sort out the true from the false, i like that

 

[DeletedUser]

chris earned the account but when it comes to you, some last words from nathan

[21/06/2013 23:47:31] Nathan Sharpe: Yeah demon adn ascension are completely wrong about offering to igouge, they only got peices of a conversation and not thw whole thing. I have stated before how I hadn't planne dto offer them and hell they are the reason we went to war with iGouge because I wasn't going to let them take our players. An example is Erixson, igouge wanted him nobled out, I said no.... If I offered up Stunts why are they still here? And half of them were from TRE or wanted to be in TRE, I see no reason to let them be taken out for peace lol. I only ever protected Stunts from iGouge as if they were offered up they frankly wouldn't be here right now. But they are and I'm happy they are. They can ask the council members if I ever for a second mentioned giving up Stunts, the reply you will get is no. So just ignore them about that fact because all they got is false info which I pubicly denounced in the forums (as you and others may rememeber). Although I don't play I still read the forums and keep up with the world and when people are wrong or lying like is happening I'm not going to accept being called this and that when I know it wasn't true. Just thoguht I'd get that to you as you are having a 'heated' deiscusion with them and that point above seems to be on eat the current time.
[21/06/2013 23:48:27] Nathan Sharpe: In other words they either don't know what they are on about, don't have all the infomation or don't get what was written
[21/06/2013 23:51:06] Craig Weston: well i hope you think i've been fair wih you you know i thought you was to soft but i felt we got on
[21/06/2013 23:55:39] Nathan Sharpe: Yeah I agree, I only became duke at the time as people wanted it and had little experience as duke prior to it also had exams coming up etc hence resigning due to not being effective and having the time to do so. I quit as although I just finished exmas I kind of lost motivation and stopped enjoying the game as much but I'm sure I'll be back playing the game in a couple months or so. I'm not complaining about what you think about my leading but at the fact demon and acsension have no idea what they are talking about in regards to stunts, we went to war with igouge over Stunts, that alone shows I never wanted to give them stunts. Keep an eye on him and tell Lish to do so, I have a feeling he talks to outsiders judging from his relations with Ex and that he has been swayed by hotrex previously
[21/06/2013 23:56:01] Nathan Sharpe: So is suseptable to do so again
[21/06/2013 23:58:32] Craig Weston: why not say all this in the public forum?
[00:00:19] Nathan Sharpe: I can't be bothered to argue you know that's not my style as you know :L I know they are wrong and have proven so previously but they obviously didn't believe it then so I doubt they will even if I tried again.
[00:02:45] Craig Weston: so the bunnies thing, do you think he was trying to get stunts into bunnies?
[00:04:37] Nathan Sharpe: I think they had discussed it but I am doubtful more than half of stunts would have left anyway and those that did would have been taken out pretty easily to be honest. Besides we took on the only good few left in bunnies anyway


I liked this bit

Keep an eye on him and tell Lish to do so, I have a feeling he talks to outsiders

even the former duke thinks your a spy

Chris left the account just before we got 100 villages, im at 200 villages now , if i did nothing, where did these villages come from?

Also, why do keep thinking that i was planning to merge Stunts into Bunny, considering that the only two people that have the read the Merge mail have both denied it. I'm really surprised that you even asked Nathman about it, he knew nothing of this, he didn't even read the mails me and demon sent each other, how could he possibly know what me and demon were talking about?

Oh, and nath only said he has a feeling that i talk to outsiders. There's no rule that you can only mail your tribe mates, i talk to my basher every day, he's an outsider, got a problem? You think im spying for him and leaking info from TRE?


If you and Lish don't trust me, i can give lish the sit every week to check what im doing, i don't really mind because I've done nothing wrong. he can go through all my mails, reports check my notebook, infact everything, my log in history, my account sits etcetc.

And, you still haven't answered my question. What have you done for TRI?

 

[DeletedUser109848]

Just stepping in to make one thing straight : TRE never had any wish to sell out Stunts.

iGouge asked us for players in exchange for peace. I refused. I was sitting Lord Sokrates which was still duke (although disapeared) at the time. You may recall that our dear friend Lord Haseo then lauched a circular mail to everyone in TRE calling me the worst diplomat ever and iGouge declared war on TRE - likely hoping to create trouble inside TRE. Remark I never regretted this decision.

Saying Nathman tried to sell Stunts out to iGouge while he wasn't even duke at the time is silly.
Besides, skype proofs are a joke
A forwarded ingame mail I believe. Everything else is easily cooked.

Now keep on the bickering, seems everyone enjoys it...

 

[DeletedUser]

kad, you got the times wrong.

Nathman was already duke when the skype conversations were happening, the skype msg i got wasn't copied like in Bronzed's post but a screenshot. The skype conversation was only between nathman and pain.carbon/Suter, so kad you wouldn't know what there discussing about.

Apparently everyone in Igouge knew about it according to LoudHomer

 

[DeletedUser109848]

Nathman had barely been duke 3 weeks when iGouge imploded, even without knowing him, such a u-turn in so little time must seem doubtfull. Especially since we had refused already (and no I wasn't the black ship in the council when saying to Haseo to keep dreaming) to give up members - and the war was not going nearly as bad as expected.

Yet, not being part of that skype chat (real, modified, staged, fabricated, other) I can't say for certain that it's fake. I just believe so.

 

[Alf Hucker]

Seems to happen this in a lot of worlds....a dominant tribe one side of the world and a fragmented side on the other. I have yet to see any other result than the dominant tribe winning the world (ie in this case HotRex). Current standings : HotRex/MW = 26000 villages, Ex/TRI/Fear and maybe 2000 others = 18000.

Merge the tribes, call it what you will. Democratically select a council, point East! Sounds easy doesn't it :icon_biggrin:

 

[bronzed]

We tried that, but FU attacked a TRE member, Ex recruited a Infest member (or former member who left to join Ex, either way Ex bad recruitment), Ex merged with TRE's enemy, those the entire western alliance was destroyed

 

[Alf Hucker]

well as long as everyone knows that they are going to get eaten over the above issues unless they are resolved then I guess it's immaterial :icon_neutral:

 

[bronzed]

The thing is whatever the PR spin is that Ex wants to put on it, the leaders of Infest/TRE (now TRI) now it was bad Ex recruitment and diplomacy policy that attempted to screw them over (Afterall Infest was still sending support to Ex front lines when war was declared) Fallen Hobos needs to apologize to Infest for the bad recruitment, and apologize to TRE for the merger with FU, then and only then will the possibility of TRI and Ex working together really ever be on the table.

However as we all know Fallen Hobos will not die, he would rather see his entire tribe rimmed then die without his ego in check. Everyone in TRI knows this war just helps Hotrex, and thats why I kept asking if Fallen Hobos a terrible leader or a Hotrex spy, because his bad decisions is not helping his tribe, not helping Infest or Fallen Hobos is just helping Hotrex, infact I would say Fallen Hobos has quite possibly done more to help Hotrex than anything a Hotrex council member has ever done

 

[Alf Hucker]

I have to admit I haven't really been following the disagreements in detail and in many cases they can't be resolved for one reason or another. Sometimes it's possible to just draw a line under them, call them "agreeing to disagree" and move on. By the sounds of it this would have to be one of those for anything to change but it would be good to see the west go blue and that would be a bigger achievement than winning a dispute over some territory or recruitment dispute....after all, those become irrelevant if you're on the same side

 

[DeletedUser107592]

The thing is whatever the PR spin is that Ex wants to put on it, the leaders of Infest/TRE (now TRI) now it was bad Ex recruitment and diplomacy policy that attempted to screw them over (Afterall Infest was still sending support to Ex front lines when war was declared) Fallen Hobos needs to apologize to Infest for the bad recruitment, and apologize to TRE for the merger with FU, then and only then will the possibility of TRI and Ex working together really ever be on the table.

However as we all know Fallen Hobos will not die, he would rather see his entire tribe rimmed then die without his ego in check. Everyone in TRI knows this war just helps Hotrex, and thats why I kept asking if Fallen Hobos a terrible leader or a Hotrex spy, because his bad decisions is not helping his tribe, not helping Infest or Fallen Hobos is just helping Hotrex, infact I would say Fallen Hobos has quite possibly done more to help Hotrex than anything a Hotrex council member has ever done

Here we go with more Bronzed lies again.

First as I posted previously Infest was not sending support when the war was declared. Two players were, one of them being the player who left Infest because of the account abuse plus one more member whom he had arranged to send support to Ex.

Got it this time.

Its about time you quit wringing you hands over this war helping out HotRex. You have already publicly admitted:

1. You wanted the war.
2. You helped instigate the war by your actions. As I have posted before I declared on TRE because of your actions.
3. You were actively trying to arrange a Nap with HotRex before the FU situation to get out of the war against HotRex.

Of course once I declared you didn't want to fight the war yourself because "Lish said you did not have to noble out of your cluster".
And no doubt the fact you don't support your own mates despite being ranked third in TRI explains why you have no Reliable Commander Award at all eh? Not even a measly level 1 award.

You are ranked #33 as a player, #198 as an attacker and #232 as a defender. Wooo your hot stuff aren't you. Afraid you might break a nail?

So in other words all you have done in TRI is stir the garbage just like you did in every other tribe you have been in and nothing else.

I am not going to apologize for inviting a player who was tribeless and had left his tribe because of account abuse by his other tribe members. It was the right thing to do.

I am not going to apologize for declaring war on a tribe who would allow a member to attack allied players, come into my forum and rant and rave and curse in the shared forum when his own tribe would not handle it. It was the right thing to do.

There is no possibility of EX and TRI ever working together. None. Nada..zip..zilch. Clear enough for you? So go factor that into your "plans".

 

[bronzed]

We are still waiting for your proof we spoke to hotrex before your FU diplomacy.

Right thing to do? the tribe you merged with to cause the war and the member you recruited to cause the infest war are all pretty much gone, should of just swallowed your pride

Also your co-player said different about Infest support

[07/03/2013 21:23:08] Noche: No it is messier than that
[07/03/2013 21:23:24] Noche: Yesterday they were sending support

O and D stats for one world are pointless and never show skills, it just shows how much you have needed to Attack and Defend, I secured my area before those not in my tribe was big enough to cause problems, you wanna see my skills at backtiming, sniping and such, bring it your war noble stats are quite pathetic

 

[DeletedUser107592]

We are still waiting for your proof we spoke to hotrex before your FU diplomacy.

Right thing to do? the tribe you merged with to cause the war and the member you recruited to cause the infest war are all pretty much gone, should of just swallowed your pride

Also your co-player said different about Infest support

[07/03/2013 21:23:08] Noche: No it is messier than that
[07/03/2013 21:23:24] Noche: Yesterday they were sending support

O and D stats for one world are pointless and never show skills, it just shows how much you have needed to Attack and Defend, I secured my area before those not in my tribe was big enough to cause problems, you wanna see my skills at backtiming, sniping and such, bring it your war noble stats are quite pathetic

Post where my co play told you that that more than two players sent support. Post the rest of that convo.

Funny thing when you were in Stunts and Infest was at war with OTS you thought it was ok for Stunts to recruit war refugees then from OTS. Would you like me to post that?

Your only skill is at stirring up garbage and you know it. A review of your other words show the same garbage play and you know it.

As far as my war stats at least I have some unlike yourself.

 

[bronzed]

Yes please do, post the entire conversation why don't you where i said i asked Infest if we could recruit the two members (How allies should) they said no, it was Chris who recruited the members without Infest's permission, and it was me and Nathan who told him to kick them.

I'm still waiting for your proof we spoke to Hotrex before you allied with FU, because the proof so far tracks everything back to prove the war started and the angry words between our two tribes started as a result of what warlord said on the 7th of April, so if you have proof that there was talks with Hotrex before them, as you keep saying, prove it.

So basically Mr Fallen Hobos, i challenge you to prove TRE backstabbed Ex or to admit you are the cause of this war, that is the only top options left, so if you don't post your proof in the next post myself and everyone else will believe you lied about your 'proof' and admit your guilt in betraying TRE