God Vs Darwin.

[DeletedUser26129]

Ofcourse this is a verry delicate subject...

And i want to start by saying that i mean no offense to anyone.
Everyone has the right to believe what they want, and i do not judge anyone...

Muslim, jew, katholic, atheist, or any other religion.

I cannot express the importance of this, as this basicly is an everlasting discussion, wich neither side wants to lose.
I am NOT here to convert anyone... not trying to convince you to have my beliefs...



Now, a few facts... i will take christianity as an example, as it is the biggest religion of the world.

***As we all know, the current count of years originate from jezus his birth.

However, it took 1500 years to write the entire bible, the old testament was done 400 years before christ, and the new testament 100 years after christ.

It was written by more then 40 people...

However, the bible still is 1 unit... fits perfectly...

If 40 of us go and write a story in 2 months, we have so many contradictions already, that unless we work together to the letter, it would be impossible to do...


***We all know the kids game where you sit in a circle and start with an easy sentence like:

I like hide and seek, then wisper it to the next one (and so on)

And that the last one say's: i pissed my pants yesterday...


***So how can we be sure that what was told on, and changed, and edited over a course of 1500 years is true?

And then ofcourse the idea of there being a 'GOD' who is devine, and basicly has superpowers...created the world in 7 day's, and gave us life...

While there is absolutely no single shred of evidence for that... and if he would exist, why not show himself to us...
Why hide... why let the religion shrink and die in some parts of the world... why let bad things happen?

Wouldnt be believing in a god, be the same as basicly believing in harry potter?
Ofcourse i know, that after reading that sentence, you want to flame...

But think about it...in history, we all believed in witchcraft... we burned so many 'witches' that we were convinced!

If 2000 years ago harry potter was walking around doing magic tricks... that would have turned into a religion aswell.



***Now the easyest example of the editing of a story comes form The Pied Piper of Hamelin.

The fairytale we know is that he removed a plague of rats from a village using a musical pipe...After being refused to be paid, he used his musical pipe to lure the children away, only to return them after receiving the money and more.

The real story however is that he killed over 50 children...and it indeed happen...

Why would the bible be different?

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Now enough about god...
On to darwin...

Evolution theory...
Do we come from the apes...
Do we originate from one celled organismes?

If so, then why are we the only species capable of talking, inventing, science... development...
We drive cars, live indoors, with all luxery...

If we assume his theory is true, we were weak beings when evolving to what we are now..
So why werent we killed completely by predators?
Why are we still here?
Why is it that NO other species in the world is even close to being capable of what we can?



Please give your view on things.

Or dont visit this topic at all if you object against this.
Keep the flaming to a minimum please.

 

[mattcurr]

Evolution theory...
Do we come from the apes...
No chimps are the closest to us Genetically, now this is all a common misconception, none of this means that we came from chimps or apes. We had a common ancestor as them you are looking at two separate branches stemming from one single branch. We both took separate paths


Do we originate from one celled organisms?
Yes

If so, then why are we the only species capable of talking, inventing, science... development...
We are not, we just do it on the largest scale

We drive cars, live indoors, with all luxery...
We have a larger cerebral lobe, and a more developed frontal lob enabling us to store more information and think more logically also the misconception that we only use 20% of our brains is wrong.

If we assume his theory is true, we were weak beings when evolving to what we are now..
Kind of if you trace back as far as we know humans fed on bone marrow, we were the last of the scavengers, but when we learned agriculture we began to give ourselves free time, which lead to our eventual development of technology.

So why werent we killed completely by predators?
We were not that weak, and after time has passed we have even evolved since written history, which is not the majority of the existence of man, most of our history was before we could record things. Even since jesus' time we are now taller, and more lean

Why are we still here?
No reason in my opinion as to the why

Why is it that NO other species in the world is even close to being capable of what we can?
neanderthals could they went extincted though, but dolphins and whales have very complex systems of communication as well as many other animals. Not that the question means anything its like asking why we cant run at 60 mph like cheetah's, why cant we live in temperatures of thousands degree's like the tube worms that live in volcanic vents?

There are many error's in the religious side also, but Im agnostic I will allow someone who is religious to answer those.

 

[DeletedUser]

Simple answer: Darwin > God

Long answers:

First and foremost, the Bible isn't a story only written by 40 people and compiled continuously over the span of 1500 hundred years. It is more like an anthology. A collection of stories deemed appropriate by editors to help portray the overall theme they wish to portray. The Council of Nicaea was where the bible was finally brought into the modern form that we know it now. The church leaders and Roman Emperor of the time chose the Gospels that made the Bible from literally hundreds of different texts that were widely taught during that time. Early Christianity wasn't what we know of it today. Jesus' divinity was not an agreed upon point. Since the Council, however, it was decided by men that Jesus was indeed divine and all texts that portray him otherwise have since been banned as heretical.

Now, onto your comments of evolution. Species continually evolve and adapt to their current surrounding. To call our ancestors weaker is to not fully look into the subtle changes that have taken place for humans over the last few hundred thousand years. You would need to define what you meant by weaker. In purely physical form, we are actually probably a weaker species today than we were a hundred thousand years ago. Why? Simple, because we traded our strength for the use of our minds. What makes us the pinnacle of evolution is our ability to use tools, and our ability to understand our surroundings instead of reacting to them.

 

[DeletedUser26129]

pyker, you are right about the council of nicaea... only then jezus became devine... and only then the parts that they wanted, and they seen fit, were entered in what we call the bible now.

 

[mattcurr]

First and foremost, the Bible isn't a story only written by 40 people and compiled continuously over the span of 1500 hundred years. It is more like an anthology. A collection of stories deemed appropriate by editors to help portray the overall theme they wish to portray. The Council of Nicaea was where the bible was finally brought into the modern form that we know it now. The church leaders and Roman Emperor of the time chose the Gospels that made the Bible from literally hundreds of different texts that were widely taught during that time. Early Christianity wasn't what we know of it today. Jesus' divinity was not an agreed upon point. Since the Council, however, it was decided by men that Jesus was indeed divine and all texts that portray him otherwise have since been banned as heretical.

Not even delving into the old testament teheeheee that is even worse. Like how they stole the Babylonian story of Utnapishtim and made it Jewish

 

[DeletedUser]

Not even delving into the old testament teheeheee that is even worse. Like how they stole the Babylonian story of Utnapishtim and made it Jewish

Religions of that era and region always were a melting pot of other religions. Each one borrowed traditions from earlier religions and had traditions borrowed from it. When people migrated, they would adopt the religion of the local area they migrated to, but would then add bits of their own religion into it. That is why there are so many commonalities between the religions in the Cradle of Life and Mediterranean areas.

Hell, what we think of Jesus today is just the retelling of the ancient Babylonian epic, Gilgamesh. Gilgamesh was a divine being born to a virgin woman who was two parts divine and one part human. (For those who missed the last reference, think of the Holy Trinity.)

 

[DeletedUser]

Oh lulz
Me and Pyker in the same world forum and now this thread oh wow, things got a lot better :icon_eek:

Today's Bible is translation of the Greek bible + with some works

 

[DeletedUser]

Oh lulz
Me and Pyker in the same world forum and now this thread oh wow, things got a lot better :icon_eek:

Today's Bible is translation of the Greek bible + with some works

I can't wait till Indi sees this thread. :lol:

Just like old times.

 

[DeletedUser]

ok so i know nothing about all religions really, but what i believe is science, and i know science contradicts the bible, and i have a brain that allows me to rationalize that fact, this being said i guess you could call me an atheist although i do not consider myself that either...

the thing about faith though is i envy those that have it, i mean honestly they all have this different opinion on what happened and ultimately it all directly relates to the ultimate fear and question "what happens after we die" all religions have a distinct vision of their own afterlife. and to me the alternative that which i believe is a whole lot scarier, and that is nothing happens you die you die and thats the end...

this is why i envy those with faith cause they have a much less fearful hope of what will happen, whether right or wrong, if they are wrong they will never know

 

[DeletedUser]

by the way sorry for the second post but you should all see the documentary "religulous" if you havent seen it it has a great look at from a "nonbeliever" standpoint,

 

[DeletedUser]

*Darwin evolves into super Darwin and smites God!

Darwin Wins!

 

[DeletedUser]

First and foremost, the Bible isn't a story only written by 40 people and compiled continuously over the span of 1500 hundred years. It is more like an anthology. A collection of stories deemed appropriate by editors to help portray the overall theme they wish to portray. The Council of Nicaea was where the bible was finally brought into the modern form that we know it now. The church leaders and Roman Emperor of the time chose the Gospels that made the Bible from literally hundreds of different texts that were widely taught during that time. Early Christianity wasn't what we know of it today. Jesus' divinity was not an agreed upon point. Since the Council, however, it was decided by men that Jesus was indeed divine and all texts that portray him otherwise have since been banned as heretical.

someone's been reading "The Davinci code" :lol:

 

[DeletedUser]

someone's been reading "The Davinci code" :lol:

lmao, yes I have read it, but that doesn't make what I said any less true.

(And, I knew about the Nicaean Council long before Dan Brown wrote about it.)

 

[DeletedUser]

As Mattcurr said, then no we don't come from apes. When people say that then I feel they think something like: Gorilla -> Chimp -> Human. That is not correct. We evolved something like this:

--> Chimps
Chimp/human ancestor
--> Humans

We share ancestry, an ancestry reaching several million years back in time. But we do share some skills with them. Some species of 'apes', as you call them, can do the same things as we do. Gorillas can learn sign language, equivalent to that of a 6 year old. Chimp can use complex tools, and learn quickly. This is though not shared only between us and the apes, dolphins, whales, some birds and so on can either communicate quite advanced, or use tools.

The problem is that there is no solid proof that this is no an co-incident. Darwin's work made it clear that the possibility of this being a co-incidence is very, very small. It is not proven though. And here the problem arises. When a religious, who want to prove that he is right, sees this, then he goes: 'Oh, well, can you tell us the story of the eye?'. The scientist say: 'Not specifically the eye'. Then Hell is loose. By religious thoughts then it isn't proven and therefore is not true, therefore God is the answer.

The religious only say no that is not right, they don't bring up proofs, it is only described as divine intervention. I know groups like Intelligent Design say that the eye doesn't make sense, if it isn't fully operational as now with humans, and therefore can't have been a result of evolution. Of course the eye can be functional without being fully functional as now!

We see in colors (well most of us ), some animals see in black/white, and some again can only sense if there is light (Like deep sea fish). It is the fishies that is interesting here. Some animal back in time have probably developed some light sensitive organ, and over time, this organ have come to see black and white, and even further over time become so sophisticated that it can see in colors.

I hope this explains it all a bit.

 

[DeletedUser]

I have always maintained that religion serves two purposes for mankind.

1. As a means of control over people.

2. As a method to explain things that we can't explain.

 

[DirtyDishSoap]

Evolution has so many holes it's retarded, and to me, religion is there to make ones passing a little less scary.

Call me crazy but we sure did modernize ourselves rather fast, me and bud had a discussion over our small amount of time on Earth and we sure did make amazing progress for a new species. Our theory is, evolution played a small part, but we think we had a small "push" forward. Speaking of aliens. (OooOooo)
Now, going through the times, lets think about it, there are alot of great ideas that came along in history of man, but can you truly say that we as a species figured all of this out of our own (Including caveman time.)
Whose idea was it to pick a certain metal from the Earth and melt it in boiling heat? You just don't happen upon something and say "Gee, I think I'll throw this in a boiler!".
Let's not forget that some people uncover weird shit, drawings of people coming from the sky, cavemen didn't make that shit up lol. Hell, Egyptians were considered WAY ahead of their time, they had drawings of helicopters for shit sakes and had perfectly groomed out an airstrip.
WWII, Germany came out with many, many great designs (IE- Schematics for jet fueled aircrafts) I know Germany had some top notch scientists for their time, but a jet engine? Then the helicopter once again pops up. I assume we ran over something in Germany because I recall somewhere that A-51 came shortly after the war. Don't quote me on this little part, but my bud told me former employees who worked in A-51 shared alot of stories that actually go with eachother quite well. (These people who tell these stories are old as dirt, so likely they don't care what happens to them lol.)

Or I'm just insane.

 

[DeletedUser198]

Darwin is full of crap, i for myself believe that yes god did create the heaven and the earth in seven days =]

Now yes, alot of things cant be told if you believe in god, there isnt proof either but im sorry but i dont believe in the "big bang" and im sorry but we didnt evolve. If we were to evolve then why did we just stop, we are human now and for a fact this is not a perfect form, we still make mistakes and arent smart, then why has the evolution table just all of a sudden stopped if we did evolve? I would think we should just keep changing dont you agree, yet we have come to a stop?

Now i dont have time to go deeply into this, i will later =] but i was watching a video, this guy was talking about how they went to anartica/alaska (somewhere rather cold, maybe even greenland) i believe and cut a hole into the ice, and there was layers, now this ment that when it was summer the ice would melt and winter it would freeze, so it showed rings in the ice. Now they counted each 2 rings would then be 1 year, going summer and winter, so they cut it all the way down until they could no longer. Now after counting up all the rings it did not come to about billions of rings, because if the earth way so old, there would be more rings, correct? Anyways ill be back after i get some sleep and say some more that i believe =]

 

[DirtyDishSoap]

Evolution of our species I believe stopped due to the intervention of medicine and science.
Pretty much you can base Evolution off of "Survival of the Fittest".

 

[DeletedUser]

dieing is like being nobled if you have no life

but i dont care , everything that lives dies , so bring it on ..

i dont believe in god i belive in live life to the full and think fk it .

 

[DeletedUser198]

Evolution of our species I believe stopped due to the intervention of medicine and science.
Pretty much you can base Evolution off of "Survival of the Fittest".

Lol it just stopped, why would it stop now in the worse of times? So it stopped because the world is so full of pollution, disease, obesity, depression, illnesses, etc?

and i jus think its ridicolous that they think we are apes, i found this peice and think that you all should read it:

No one has ever found an "ape-man." A few examples will make our point.

In 1922, some bones were found in Nebraska by a man named Harold Cook. After studying the upper and lower jaws and the teeth of some thirty different animals, a complete ape known as Ramapithecus was constructed. The neatly drawn pictures in the textbooks give the impression that entire skeletons have been found, but this never happened.

Dr. Eugene Dubois discovered the famous Java Man (Pithecanthropus erectus) in 1891. This "great discovery" consisted of a small piece of the top of a skull, a fragment of a left thigh bone, and three molar teeth. But, instead of being found all together, these remains were found in an area of about seventy feet, and they were found over about a year's time. They were also found in an old river bed with other assorted extinct animal bones. This, of course, presents a number of problems for Java Man. How can the "experts" be so sure that these remains all came from the same being? Better yet, how do such bones survive for 750,000 years without decaying? Where's the evidence to prove these theories?

Piltdown man was discovered by Charles Dawson in 1912. Dawson claimed to have found some bones, some teeth, and even some primitive implements in a gravel pit in Piltdown, Sussex, England. He took them to a British museum where anthropologists claimed that they were 500,000 years old. Textbooks throughout the world then proclaimed Piltdown Man as the greatest find to date. Then in October of 1956, Reader's Digest EXPOSED this finding as "The Great Piltdown Hoax." The bones where found to be fraudulent. The jaw bone was proven to have belonged to an ape which had died only FIFTY YEARS before (not 500,000). The teeth had been filed down, and both, teeth and bones, had been discovered with bichromate of potash to cover up their true identity! Piltdown Man is a fraud.

The so-called Neanderthal Man was discovered around 1900 in a cave in the Neanderthal Valley near Dusseldorf, Germany. Naturally, he was hailed as another great "missing link." Since that time, it has been proven that Neanderthal wasn't an ape-man at all. He turned out to be a fully erect human being with a cranial capacity of over 13% more than that of normal man. Today, he is classified as "Homo Sapiens" (completely human) by most all anthropologists.

Finally, we come to Lucy, a 40% skeleton found in Ethiopia by D.C. Johanson in the 70's. Johanson claimed that "Lucy" had walked on two legs, because of the "angle of the thigh bone and the flattened surface at it's knee joint" (National Geographic, December, 1976). However, the knee joint was badly crushed; so Johanson's conclusion is mere speculation. Anatomist Charles Oxnard said "Lucy" did NOT walk upright, at least not in the same manner as humans. The chimpanzee does spend some time walking upright, so this was probably just another ape.

There is simply no proof that apes have evolved into men. Every time a case is presented it soon crumbles in the light of further research. Only the evolutionists with their prejudiced theories cling to such weak "evidence."