Mimelim's Guide: Defense

[DeletedUser]

Village Structures:
10k/10k Spears/Swords Split
This is by far the most efficient setup in terms of farm space. There are two downsides however. First, it takes a very long time to build. To be exact, with a lvl 25 barracks it will take 45 days to build, in this game, that is a long time. Secondly, moving troops around is slow. When villages are clustered together this isn't a big deal, but the further apart villages are, the more problematic this becomes.

8k/2k Spears/hcav Optimized Defense
This is a highly popular model of defense. Essentially, you sacrifice 20% of your troop effectiveness in exchange for a faster build time and faster movement. In contrast to the 10k/10k split, this configuration only takes 17 days to build. This is a THIRD of the time required to build the first configuration.

How did you measure the 20% loss? My simple simulator experiment shows that a 6000/3000/235 attack on a 10k/10k village results in the defender losing 10,326 farm spaces (1.1M resources); the same attack on a 8k/2k village results in a defender loss of 15,740 farm spaces (2M resources).

I realize there are other things to consider when determining "troop effectiveness", but I wonder what measure you are using to come up with a loss of only 20%.

 

[DeletedUser]

I've had my rally point destroyed loads of times and I've never seen the point. I've always had my support / snipe or stack sorted well before that point.

and it takes about 6 minutes to repair! When I have had my farm attacked by cats it has been a complete nightmare.

 

[DeletedUser]

How did you measure the 20% loss? My simple simulator experiment shows that a 6000/3000/235 attack on a 10k/10k village results in the defender losing 10,326 farm spaces (1.1M resources); the same attack on a 8k/2k village results in a defender loss of 15,740 farm spaces (2M resources).

I realize there are other things to consider when determining "troop effectiveness", but I wonder what measure you are using to come up with a loss of only 20%.

Well, for starters the attack has a lot more cav. attack than infantry (Almost double) and h cav def is a lot weaker to cav than infantry. An even spear/sword split is actually stronger against cav. than infantry. Because of these setups the h cav is basically doomed to be a lot worse. Even if the stats per pop of h cav were as good as swords (it's a good bit lower) the h cav would still do worse since it's a poorer build based on the attacking army. That said, I know 6k/3k is a standard offense for many players.


To actually answer your question, I'm guessing he got the 20% by determining how much weaker a h cav's stats are per population than a swordsmans.

 

[DeletedUser]

How did you measure the 20% loss? My simple simulator experiment shows that a 6000/3000/235 attack on a 10k/10k village results in the defender losing 10,326 farm spaces (1.1M resources); the same attack on a 8k/2k village results in a defender loss of 15,740 farm spaces (2M resources).

I realize there are other things to consider when determining "troop effectiveness", but I wonder what measure you are using to come up with a loss of only 20%.

8k/2k spears/hcav is the same as 8k/8k. Compared to 10k/10k you have lost 20% of your defensive troops. Obviously you will lose more than 20% more troops if you run an attack against 10k/10k vs 8k/8k.

 

[DeletedUser]

8k/8k:
cav def 560k
inf def: 520k

8k/2k:
cav def 520k
inn def:520k

all troops lvl 1 (the ratios stay the same)

so 8k/8k even tops 8k/2k

 

[thewaytoplay]

to thar: i mentioned it is good idea to leave 100/100 defence in every village but even than rally points will get raped(especially in newer worlds with minamal attack limit)

 

[DeletedUser]

8k/8k:
cav def 560k
inf def: 520k

8k/2k:
cav def 520k
inn def:520k

all troops lvl 1 (the ratios stay the same)

so 8k/8k even tops 8k/2k

My mistake, I'm trying to check if thats something that has been changed or if its something that I've just never noticed. Weird...

 

[DeletedUser]

My mistake, I'm trying to check if thats something that has been changed or if its something that I've just never noticed. Weird...

The key difference is more the ratio than anything else, the fact that an even spear/sword def. favors cav. and a hc def doesn't

 

[DeletedUser]

The key difference is more the ratio than anything else, the fact that an even spear/sword def. favors cav. and a hc def doesn't

Ya, but who uses lcav heavy armies besides me? Given the comments other people have had about offense, I don't think that a little loss on the cav defense is that earth shattering

 

[DeletedUser]

8k/2k spears/hcav is the same as 8k/8k. Compared to 10k/10k you have lost 20% of your defensive troops. Obviously you will lose more than 20% more troops if you run an attack against 10k/10k vs 8k/8k.

So, you're giving up 20% defensive strength, but that 20% drop in strength translates to more than a 20% drop in effectiveness?

 

[DeletedUser]

So, you're giving up 20% defensive strength, but that 20% drop in strength translates to more than a 20% drop in effectiveness?

You give up 20% general defensive strength and 26% of cavalry defensive strength. However, your loss of effectiveness depends entirely on how the opposing player attacks.

 

[DeletedUser]

If the opposing player attacks with a sufficiently small force there is little to no difference. The more attacking troops you add, the larger the gap between the two builds becomes.

 

[DeletedUser]

If the opposing player attacks with a sufficiently small force there is little to no difference. The more attacking troops you add, the larger the gap between the two builds becomes.

Yes, but can't we assume that an attacking player is going to attack with a (nearly) full attack force most of the time?

 

[DeletedUser]

The inverse of the statement is always true. The more def is stacked in the village the less the difference is, and as the total population worth of def. goes down the difference between the two builds becomes more extreme.

 

[DeletedUser]

Yes, but can't we assume that an attacking player is going to attack with a (nearly) full attack force most of the time?

Yes you can assume that, but in discussing troop levels you have to go by the raw numbers relative to each other, not by how much reducing the total number of troops affects things...

 

[DeletedUser]

Yes you can assume that, but in discussing troop levels you have to go by the raw numbers relative to each other, not by how much reducing the total number of troops affects things...

Why? This is supposed to be a practical guide, is it not?

 

[DeletedUser]

Why? This is supposed to be a practical guide, is it not?

Are you trying to troll or are you being serious... Practical? How is it more practical to consider a situational value as opposed to the raw values? That doesn't make any sense...

 

[DeletedUser]

Are you trying to troll or are you being serious... Practical? How is it more practical to consider a situational value as opposed to the raw values? That doesn't make any sense...

Mimelim, talking about levels of troops reminds me of techlevels. I cannot remember reading about them. Did you mention them? That's one thing, that I really met tons of times when conquering villages from "big scorers".

Seeing troop levels of 1 or 2, seldomly researched to level 3. I think that's a must-have in both of the guides. Defensive and offensive.

 

[DeletedUser]

well, when you say that the attacker has 7k axes, 3k lcav, 235 rams that translates into a ratio of 1:1,4 infantry:cavalry. The best defense against that ratio wold be a defensive ratio thats exactly the same. Problem is swords defend for 75 points, but spears only for 60, spears cost is 90 compared to 130 and build a lot faster.

The most efficient defense would be 13000 spears and 7000 swords (defensive ratio of 1,4:1 (cavalry:infantry). You would loose 11.601 instead of 11.370 (231 units) at 0 luck/100% morale, but would build that faster and cheaper. Taking into consideration the 50% higher absolut defense of swords actually 10k 10k is the best defense you can have, if you are willing to spend more res and time. well, 9800: 10200.

The fastest defense you can build has a ratio from 1,08:1 and consists of 8800 spears and 1866 hcav (and a village with 30 resources cannot build 24/7 without res support). It's a lot more inefficient (16.556 kills instead of 11.601) than the 13000 Spears, 7000 Swords solution, but is built in 10 days instead of 26,6 (10k 10k need 28,2 days).

Any given combination, that is build slower than 8800 spears and 1866 hcav is of course better, so the only question is: how much time do I have to build the defense.

build 8800 spears 1866 hcav if you have no time, but lots of res
build 13000 spears, 7000 swords if you have time but no res
build 10k 10k if you have both time and res.

 

[DeletedUser]

Tech levels:

Spears 3
Swords 3
Axes 3
Scouts 0
Lcav 3
Hcav 3
Rams 0
Cats 0

If you want scouts, rams or cats you will have to decrease any level by one, research the wanted item and build units. even after you revoke the tech level after you've build them the unit will work at an efficiency of tech level 1.

If you really need tech level 3 scouts in a defensive village leave lcav at 0.