Nuke Builds and Opinions

Lions Pride

Guest
Hey guys figured i would see what types of nuke builds everyone uses, i know there a lot of guides around saying what are the most preferred builds etc. but i find its more fun to experiment and try different builds and have different builds for different occassions.

I will post a few of my builds here and please feel free to give your opinions on them and compare with your own builds to see if anyone has some really creative builds and if there is a number of just common builds what everyone uses.

Offensive Nuke Builds:
7109 Axes (potentially 7509)
2600 Light Cavalry
300 Mounted Cavalry
250 Rams
400 Pop space for nobles if i want them in the villa, if not they go as axes.

This is 1 of my more common builds that i use, as i feel its a sort of multi purpose nuke, as it has a decent amount of axes and LC but also some mounted cavalry for those pesky archers, i kept the MC to 300 as im sure i seen somewhere that 1 MC can potentially kill 12 archers, so its some nice killing power. (possibly)

4909 Axes
3000 Light Cavalry
500 Mounted Cavalry
250 Rams

This build i use if i find a villa that is lacking in the spear department, i find that it makes short work of defensive builds that are low on spears and overall saves troops and reduces the amount of time that my nukes are damaged.

4000 Light Cavalry
800 Mounted Cavalry

I don't have many of this build and only use it when im attacking a village that a player would have took long distance from the rest of his villages and therefore when its being attacked the only troops he can get there for support would be HC which are fairly weak against LC, therefore its quite effective but rarely comes in handy.

Defensive Nuke Builds:
2550 Catapults
249 Spears
Paladin equipped with alethias bonfire

This build i only have in 1 villa and basically anyone who has the bonfire weapon with a have a villa with pretty much all cats as its kinda the ultimate def :)

4700 Spears
4700 Swords
4659 Archers
1100 Heavy Cavalry

This build is evenly made and offers some strong protection, however the only drawback is the time needed to make a build like this, hence this build should only really be made if you know your not going to be attacked for a while and therefore have the time needed to build it.

8000 Spears
2000 Heavy Cavalry

Yes i know this is a very common build however its kind of a necessary 1 when in a tribal war since its the quickest def nuke to build, and although it may not be as strong as that first build i posted, its lower construction time means its probably more effective when you need to get lots of def fast.

1 Archer
3443 Heavy Cavalry

Every now and then i will make a full on HC nuke mainly for the reason that i can send a massive amount of support quickly when its needed in the form of HC, i only have a few of these however they come in handy when the only troops within range of supporting are HC :) (oh and in case anyone is wondering about the lonely 1 archer thats with them........ there was 1 pop left so i just kinda built an archer to make it 24000/24000 :D)


And that is a sample of some of my builds and i welcome any and all criticism and look forward to seeing what types of builds people prefer and how they use them.
 

Social Disorder

Guest
8000 Spears
2000 Heavy Cavalry

Should turn that into 5k spears, 4k archers, and I believe 1.8k HC's. Way more effective
 

darthtraytus

Guest
Well I don't play any archer worlds but my build is: 11612 axe, 1250 HC, and 250 Rams. Defensive is 11612 Spear, 1250 HC, and 200 Cats. This is from Openeye's strategy and time wise is the best build I have heard of.
 

Lions Pride

Guest
8000 Spears
2000 Heavy Cavalry

Should turn that into 5k spears, 4k archers, and I believe 1.8k HC's. Way more effective
Yeah it probably would be more effective in terms of defence, but i keep it at that build purely because its very fast to make compared to most builds and therefore come in handy more when you need get defence fast whether it be to support teammates or your own villas.

Here is a comparison in build times based on my villas set up and you will see a vast difference in the how long your type takes to make compared to my type.

In this first link it should take you to your build type based on my villas set up.

Here

Just in case it isnt allready filled out, max all villas apart from HQ to 20 and Market to 20, then you will see that 5k spears takes 220:03:16 and then after that you have the 4k archers which takes 310:39:54 thats a total of over 530 hours in the Barracks, the time needed for the HC is 374:09:57 but the main time we need to go off is the longest queue when determining how long a full Def nuke takes to build.

And now in this link we will see the difference for my build.

Here

Most likely it wont be filled out, but simply repeat the steps for the first link, and you will see that the time it takes for 8 k spears is 352:05:13 which is almost a 180 hours quicker for the Barracks. and then the time for 2k HC is 415:44:23 which means the total time for this Nuke build is 415:44:23

So its pretty much almost 5 full days quicker, and although though may not seem much, if your in a large scale tribal war your gona need all the troops you can get as fast as you can get them. But at the end of the day its all about preference.
 

Rizzler

Guest
Well I don't play any archer worlds but my build is: 11612 axe, 1250 HC, and 250 Rams. Defensive is 11612 Spear, 1250 HC, and 200 Cats. This is from Openeye's strategy and time wise is the best build I have heard of.
Openeye's stragetegy for offensive hc is primarily for tech worlds, for simple tech its pretty ineffective
 

DeletedUser92671

Guest
my nukes are

20,000 spears
1 ram (for those cheeky fakes of course)

my defence is,

paladin, it owns,
10,000 scouts, so you cannot see me paladin.
 

Lacus.

Guest
Well I don't play any archer worlds but my build is: 11612 axe, 1250 HC, and 250 Rams. Defensive is 11612 Spear, 1250 HC, and 200 Cats. This is from Openeye's strategy and time wise is the best build I have heard of.
I recommend playing around with that, even though your 60/70% offense (if you follow the guide to the letter), waiting nearly a month for nuke is absurd. Also if that d build ALONE got hit by heavy axe nuke, the losses would be terrible.
 

-Illusions-

Guest
Openeye's stragetegy for offensive hc is primarily for tech worlds, for simple tech its pretty ineffective
Yes and no.

He used it on W13 when we played together in Flux. Key to all of his strategies is activity. He used it quite well and kicked arse big time till he moved on. So to say its ineffective is not quite true. As with his set up, its more about speed of troops, (Building and moving) then brute strength. As he moves his around faster and stacks more, while replacing losses faster then other players. His nukes can serve as Def in times of need, using the HC as defenders.

But as I said, his strat is dependent on activity.
 

Rizzler

Guest
Yes and no.

He used it on W13 when we played together in Flux. Key to all of his strategies is activity. He used it quite well and kicked arse big time till he moved on. So to say its ineffective is not quite true. As with his set up, its more about speed of troops, (Building and moving) then brute strength. As he moves his around faster and stacks more, while replacing losses faster then other players. His nukes can serve as Def in times of need, using the HC as defenders.

But as I said, his strat is dependent on activity.
It does mean if you are using alot of your nukes to defend, when the time comes for you to counterattack you have half filled nukes.
 

Chimino

Guest
I prefer to go a bit heavier on rams, and use any extra space for axes. LC tends to have a better survivability rate, which is nice, but axes take longer to rebuild so usually go the 7200+ axe route when possible.
 

-Illusions-

Guest
It does mean if you are using alot of your nukes to defend, when the time comes for you to counterattack you have half filled nukes.
True, as I said, if in times of need, you can use them as Def. But as you pointed out the counter cost. So you try not to do this if possible. His strat is more on flexibility of use, then singularly.

I prefer to go a bit heavier on rams, and use any extra space for axes. LC tends to have a better survivability rate, which is nice, but axes take longer to rebuild so usually go the 7200+ axe route when possible.
Actually hes very good on rams. I wouldn't go higher unless you building a wall buster nuke.
 

darthtraytus

Guest
The build is most effective once you hit around ten villages and up. I would not suggest it before that as it costs a pretty penny. As for the axe nuke deal there are more ways then one to skin a cat. You could just group all your HC in one village and crush it easy. Also with this build LC are non-existent as a threat. Like I said that main benefit to this build is adaptability. It is much easier to change an offensive village to a defensive village and vice versa if you wish to confuse the enemy. You are right though it does work best on tech worlds.
 

Chimino

Guest
Actually hes very good on rams. I wouldn't go higher unless you building a wall buster nuke.
Ya, I get 250 is the standard, but try send a 300 ram nuke as the initial nuke against a known defended village.
 

Lions Pride

Guest
Yes and no.

He used it on W13 when we played together in Flux. Key to all of his strategies is activity. He used it quite well and kicked arse big time till he moved on. So to say its ineffective is not quite true. As with his set up, its more about speed of troops, (Building and moving) then brute strength. As he moves his around faster and stacks more, while replacing losses faster then other players. His nukes can serve as Def in times of need, using the HC as defenders.

But as I said, his strat is dependent on activity.
Wow so with this type of builds you can switch between off and def easily and be a sort of multipurpose player? that actually sounds quite interesting, but how does it fair in terms of effectiveness on the attack? would the lack of LC not be much of an issue, as all those axes wouldnt be worth to much against a villa stacked by HC i would have thought?
 

Forkrul

Guest
I think HC strat has its place but as a standard strategy it is too limiting. When dealing with stacks HC based nukes are a poor alternative to standard nukes. They can be used to good effect on frontlines and in outposts to allow for a high density of short range trains and support but for backline villages they are too slow too build and too weak.
 

Lacus.

Guest
They only lose about 100k OS (maybe a bit more, haven't worked the stats out in a bit) compared to an lc/axe nuke. So the only difference you notice is in stacks.
 

DeletedUser92671

Guest
i learnt alot of people like to have swords/archers in the D with Hc, because swords and archers counter act each others weakness ever so slightly more than spears and swords, (personally i use spears not archers, because swords and spears have opposite resources so queues can be done quicker)
so learning this by hearing alot of people say it, i like to have a good amount of MA in my nukes, it really does stun people hard when MA clear out their archers with one nuke.
 

Forkrul

Guest
They only lose about 100k OS (maybe a bit more, haven't worked the stats out in a bit) compared to an lc/axe nuke. So the only difference you notice is in stacks.
Damage vs stacks is all that really matters when you are talking about mid and backline nukes. HC nukes don't perform that well just on a theoretical basis. In practice, HC nukes tend to be very axe heavy because HC queues are harder to keep up and because of the HC in the nukes being used to supplement defenses. Since stacks are usually stronger vs axe the HC nukes are extra ineffective.
 

Lions Pride

Guest
yeah i agree with forkrul, the HC nukes may be slightly effective early on, but when its mid game and stacking is common it would become completely useless, which i suppose is where extra rams comes into play, if you can get a strong enough ram nuke to take the wall down a bit more than usual in a stacked villa then your gonna make your next few nukes much more effective.

but how many rams do people like in a ram nuke when aiming to take walls down more in a stacked villa?

I would have though 300 - 500 so that you don't reduce the strength of the nuke by loads, but has anyone found a particularly effective nuke build for that?
 

-Illusions-

Guest
Each player needs to sit down and figure out what works best for them. Taking into account their activity level, and general knowledge of the game. More or less all tend to forge a standard nuke/Def build.

To which that, I can share some guides from days gone by for those interested.

Defence ratios: a breakdown.
[spoil]
Titancrusher said:
I thought this was interesting. I got this from another guy who got it from w6 i think.

----------------------------------------------
How to pick the ultimate defensive units ratio?
-----------------------------------------------

I would like to propose that the use of the offense/defense simulator should be reserved only for one purpose, and that is to test the result of your attack before actually making it. I would like to propose that the use of the simulator will tend to confuse you if you make extensive use of it to determine the best ratio for defensive units. It will also tend to confuse you if you are trying to pick the best offense units ratio. I will discuss offensive units ratio in the next section.

If you do not use the simulator, how do you determine the best defensive units ratio? The answer is actually more simple and straightforward than you could imagine.

For all units, there are 3 defense parameters. They are General Defense (GD), Cavalry Defense (CD) and Archer Defense (AD).

Let's look at the GD/CD/AD of the 3 defensive units (minus the heavy cavalry.):
--
Spears: 15/45/20
Total of GD/CD/AD added up is: 80
Cost: 90 resources and 1 villager

Swords: 50/15/40
Total of GD/CD/AD added up is: 105
Cost: 130 resources and 1 villager

Archers: 50/40/5
Total of GD/CD/AD added up is: 95
Cost: 190 resources and 1 villager
--

I went into such details because I would like to ask 2 questions:
1. Does the total of the GD/CD/AD matter?
2. Why is it that every single unit has some kind of weakness?

For the first question:
Does the total of the GD/CD/AD matter?
--
The total of the GD/CD/AD does matter!! It matters so much that you wouldn't believe it. This is because the total of the GD/CD/AD are your defense power against the 3 kinds of offensive units, the more you have, the more you are able to withstand the 3 kinds of offensive attacks. Now, take note of which two units have the highest GD/CD/AD total.
--

For the second question:
Why is it that every single unit has some kind of weakness?
--
This question is the very reason for a defensive unit ratio. Each of the 3 defense units alone will have a weakness, but if you put 2 or more of these units together, their defensive strength averages up and the strength of one defensive unit cancels out the weakness of another!

Another way to look at this is that when you combine 2 or more different units together, you essential created a new kind of unit with the defensive strength of the average of the 2 or more kind.

For example, if you put a spear and a sword together, you get:
spear: 15/45/20
sword: 50/15/40
Together: 32.5/30/30
GD = (15+50)/2 = 32.5
CD = (45+15)/2 = 30
AD = (20+40)/2 = 30

Therefore, when you put the spear and the sword together, you have created or designed a new unit with GD/CD/AD of 32.5/30/30. This might be a paradigm shift for some of you, but I want you to keep this concept in mind.
--

Since the number of villagers for each village is limited by a level 30 farm, which supports 24,000 villagers, you have to be extremely selective about the kind of defensive units you have so as to maximize your defensive strength.

Now let's look at 3 reasonable and common ratios for defensive units:
--
spears/swords 1:1 ratio
GD/CD/AD: 32.5/30/30
Total GD/CD/AD: 92.5

spears/swords/archers 1:1:2 ratio
GD/CD/AD: 41.25/35/17.5
Total GD/CD/AD: 93.75

swords/archers 1:1 ratio
GD/CD/AD: 50/27.5/22.5
Total GD/CD/AD: 100
--

Remember I told you that you should not use a simulator when determining defensive unit ratio? The simple reason is that you could average up the GD/CD/AD of the ratio you chose and determine the best ratio just by looking at the GD/CD/AD of the ratio you created. Another point is that the total GD/CD/AD is very important as the higher your total GD/CD/AD, the more defense you have generally (This is especially crucial if your attacker could not scout you successfully.)

If we classify defense strength as follows:
10 - 20: poor
20 - 30: average
30 - 40: good
40 - 50: excellent

The "spears/swords 1:1 ratio" has a low good defense for GD and average defense for everything else.

The "spears/swords/archers 1:1:2 ratio" has excellent defense for GD, good defense for CD and poor defense for AD.

The "swords/archers 1:1 ratio" has godly defense for GD, and average defense for both CD and AD. However, notice that the CD is higher than AD.

Now, isn't this much simpler and clear than running a few hundred
simulations? I will promise you that it will become even more clear if you read my section on the offense ratio.

I would propose that we should pick the ultimate defense ratio based on 2 criteria:
1. Total GD/CD/AD.
2. The villagers/performance ratio of the offense units.

If we based our decision solely on the total GD/CD/AD, the
"swords/archers 1:1 ratio" wins.

What is the villagers/performance ratio of the offensive units?
--
The villagers/performance ratio of the offensive units is the amount of offensive strength you get for each villager you use on an offensive unit.

Therefore, here are the villagers/performance ratio of axemen, light cavalry and mounted archer:
--
axemen:
villagers: 1
offensive strength: 40
villagers/performance ratio: 40/1 = 40

light cavalry:
villagers: 4
offensive strength: 130
villagers/performance ratio: 130/4 = 32.5

mounted archer:
villagers: 5
offensive strength: 120
villagers/performance ratio: 120/5 = 24
--

Based on the villagers/performance ratio, if we know that the largest offensive force can only consist of an army made up of 23,000 villagers, we could have 23,000 axemen OR 5,750 light cavalry (23000/4) OR 4,600 mounted archers (23000/5).

Total maximum offensive strength of axemen = 23,000 * 40 = 920,000
Total maximum offensive strength of light cavalry = 5,750 * 130 = 747,500
Total maximum offensive strength of mounted archers = 4,600 * 120 = 552,000

Based on the information provided by the maximum offensive strength of each offensive units, you want a lot of defense for axemen, followed by a lesser amount for light cavalry and an even lesser amount for mounted archer.

The "spears/swords 1:1 ratio" has only a low good defense (GD: 32.5) against axemen, so it will suffer greatly against an axemen attack, so this ratio is out.

The "spears/swords/archers 1:1:2 ratio" has excellent defense against axemen (GD: 41.25) and good defense against light cavalry, but it is fatally weak against mounted archers (AD: 17.5). I would not pick this ratio based on the fatal weakness.

The "swords/archers 1:1 ratio" has a godly defense against axemen (GD: 50), very nice! Furthermore, it has average but adequate defenses against the light cavalry and mounted archers.

I guess it is pretty clear based on the total GD/CD/AD and also the villagers/performance ratio that the "swords/archers 1:1 ratio" is the best ratio for defensive units.

-----------------------------------------------
How to pick the ultimate offensive units ratio?
-----------------------------------------------

If a defender has 123 spears, 251 swords, 80 archers, 50 light cavalry and 200 axemen, how do you pick your offensive units ratio? Would you use the simulator again? Is there an easier way? The answer is yes!

Some people recommend that you should use light cavalry against swords, axemen against spears and mounted archer against archer. But unfortunately, life is not so simple when you face 123 spears, 251 swords, 80 archers, 50 light cavalry and 200 axemen. Furthermore, the combat system in TW is such that when you face such a diverse army, it is not the case that your axemen will fight only against the defender's spears and slaughter them only, but that your axemen has to fight spears, swords, archers, light cavalry and also axemen all together! Units like swords and archers will slaughter your axemen.

So, what is the best way to determine the best offensive force to use against a diverse defensive army? The easiest and most effective way is to total up all the defensive strength (GD/CD/AD) for all the defensive force and use only one type of offensive unit that is best against the weakest total defensive strength of the diverse army. I know this might sound complex, but let me give you a simple example:
--
If you face a diverse army of 1 spear, 2 archers and 3 swords, here are their GD/CD/AD:
spear: 15/45/20
sword: 50/15/40
archer: 50/40/5
(3 swords is 150/30/120)
(2 archers is 100/80/10)

Total for 1 spear, 2 archers and 3 swords is: 265/155/150

This means that this diverse defense force is the weakest on AD (150 only), so you should send in only mounted archers. Some might ask: should I also send in my extra axemen? This is a very crucial question and the answer is: "Not if you can help it". For this case, if you have enough mounted archers to nicely defeat the defender, then you should never send in any other offensive units. This is because for example, if you send axemen in addition to mounted archers, your axemen is fighting against a stronger GD (265!!) while your mounted archers is fighting against a weak AD (140 only). Your axemen will suffer a larger casualty compared to your mounted archers and therefore sending your axemen will mess things up and increase your overall casualties. If you don't believe this, run a few simulations and you will see the light.

As an attacker, keep this powerful thought in mind: You get to pick the defense (GD/CD/AD) that you fight against. Pick the weakest!!!
--

All these offensive strategy is based on the assumption that you could successfully scout your enemy. Therefore scouting is of paramount importance, it is like winning half the battle. I guess it is understandable that people devote a whole village to producing scouts. Also, try your best not to let your enemy scout your village, but however, even if they managed to scout your village, the "swords/archers 1:1 ratio" ensures that you have the best chance of survival. In fact, in the next section you will learn that no single offensive force exist in TW to defeat the ultimate "swords/archers 1:1 ratio" defense force.

---------------------------------------
Finally We are Running some Simulations
---------------------------------------

Let's run simulations on our best defensive units ratio against the 3 largest offensive force possible. The defense force and offense force will each comprise of 23,000 villagers.

Based on the "swords/archers 1:1 ratio", we have 11,500 swords and 11,500 archers, protected by a level 20 wall.

23,000 axemen vs 11,500 archers/11,500 swords (level 20 wall):
--
Attacker: 23,000 axemen
Attacker casulties: 23,000 axemen

Defender: 11,500 archers/11,500 swords
Defender casulties: 2,765 archers/2,765 swords
--

WOW!! The defenders lost so little and slaughtered the largest axemen army in TW. Infact, the defenders could slaughter 3 such armies in a row and only get slaughtered by the 4th army of 23,000 axemen if you run the simulator a few times, each round decreasing the number of defenders casulties.

5,750 light cavalry vs 11,500 archers/11,500 swords (level 20 wall):
--
Attacker: 5,750 light cavalry
Attacker casulties: 5,750 light cavalry

Defender: 11,500 archers/11,500 swords
Defender casulties: 4,962 archers/4,962 swords
--

4,600 mounted archer vs 11,500 archers/11,500 swords (level 20 wall):
--
Attacker: 4,600 mounted archer
Attacker casulties: 4,600 mounted archer

Defender: 11,500 archers/11,500 swords
Defender casulties: 4,254 archers/4,254 swords
--

When attacked by light cavalry or mounted archers, the defenders lost less than 50% of the army. Also, the defenders are able to slaughter 2 full rounds of mounted archers attackers and almost 2 full rounds of light cavalry before getting annihilated.

------------------------
Some concluding thoughts
------------------------

Imagine you have 2 villages with 11,500 archers/11,500 swords in each village. Imagine that these 2 villages are only next to each other.

When one village is under massive attack, you send all the
11,500 archers/11,500 swords from the unattacked village to support the attacked village. What kind of offensive army will be needed to defeat this strategy? What if you have 3 such villages? Your attackers will be so depressed when you keep slaughtering their forces






ran some simulations to give a clear picture of losses sustained on common ratios.

here's the ratios for the 1:2:2 that i am currently using

and i calced a 1:3:2 as well.

43/31/22 - 1:2:2

44.2/28.3/25 - 1:3:2


im thinking the thought is erroneous and the 1:1 would probably work better anyways. lemme run some sims.

Simulation Group 1 - 1:2:2 (43/31/22)

23,000 axemen vs 4,600 spear men/9,600 swords/9,600 archers (level 20 wall):
--
Attacker: 23,000 axemen
Attacker casualties: 23,000 axemen

Defender: 4,600 spear men/9,600 swords/9,600 archers
Defender casualties: 1,387 spear men/2,773 swords/2,773 archers
--

5,750 light cavalry vs 4,600 spear men/9,600 swords/9,600 archers (level 20 wall):
--
Attacker: 5,750 light cavalry
Attacker casualties: 5,750 light cavalry

Defender: 4,600 spear men/9,600 swords/9,600 archers
Defender casualties: 1,659 spear men/3,317 swords/3,317 archers
--

4,600 mounted archer vs 4,600 spear men/9,600 swords/9,600 archers (level 20 wall):
--
Attacker: 4,600 mounted archer
Attacker casualties: 4,600 mounted archer

Defender: 4,600 spear men/9,600 swords/9,600 archers
Defender casualties: 1,760 spear men/3,519 swords/3,519 archers
--

Simulation Group 2 - 1:3:2 (44.2/28.3/25)

23,000 axemen vs 3,830 spear men/11,500 swords/7,660 archers (level 20 wall):
--
Attacker: 23,000 axemen
Attacker casulties: 23,000 axemen

Defender: 11,500 archers/11,500 swords
Defender casulties: 1,110 spear men/3,332 swords/2,219 archers
--

5,750 light cavalry vs 3,830 spear men/11,500 swords/7,660 archers (level 20 wall):
--
Attacker: 5,750 light cavalry
Attacker casualties: 5,750 light cavalry

Defender: 3,830 spear men/11,500 swords/7,660 archers
Defender casualties: 1,582 spear men/4,749 swords/3,164 archers
--

4,600 mounted archer vs 3,830 spear men/11,500 swords/7,660 archers (level 20 wall):
--
Attacker: 4,600 mounted archer
Attacker casualties: 4,600 mounted archer

Defender: 3,830 spear men/11,500 swords/7,660 archers
Defender casualties: 1,210 spear men/3,633 swords/2,420 archers
--

total casualties for each ratio

1:1 (50/27.5/22.5)
2,765 archers/2,765 swords - 5,530 total villagers
4,962 archers/4,962 swords - 9,924 total villagers
4,254 archers/4,254 swords - 8,508 total villagers
23962 total
--
1:2:2 (43/31/22)
1,387 spear men/2,773 swords/2,773 archers - 6,933 total villagers
1,659 spear men/3,317 swords/3,317 archers - 8,293 total villagers
1,760 spear men/3,519 swords/3,519 archers - 8,798 total villagers
24024 total
--
1:3:2 (44.2/28.3/25)
1,110 spear men/3,332 swords/2,219 archers - 6,661 total villagers
1,582 spear men/4,749 swords/3,164 archers - 9,495 total villagers
1,210 spear men/3,633 swords/2,420 archers - 7,263 total villagers
23,419 total






note i havent used HC anywhere in these calculations, but i have a seperate section on that somewhere.i'll dig it up and post elsewhere.
Titancrusher said:
quite commendable if you were able to read all that in a single stretch.ideas and thoughts please.the last part is my own noobish interpretations.but i thought i would like to pick the brains of the more experienced players here on what kind of a combination they have found to be the best working strategy.

just thought i'll put in my own 2 cents. there is already a guide on offensive village layouts i think but since there wasnt for defensive, i thought i'll pull this out of the duster.
tennismaster07 said:
:) Very nice guide, yes I read completely through it (I'd be a hypocrite if I didn't, seeing as I wrote the lengthy offensive guide lol).

One thing that needs to be said though, is the best defense depends on the offense thrown at you. Also, the time it takes to recruit each defense must be taken into effect... 1:1 ratio for swords and archers is going to take a LONG time... a lot longer than most people would think.

In fact, just 10,000 SW and 10,000 Archers would take nearly 60 days to recruit. Sure that's fine if you have time and know you (or your tribemates) won't be under attack, but if you're surrounded by the enemy and expect them to attack at any time, that is most definitely not the defense you'd want to recruit... in that case, a faster defense is needed.

One ratio many people like to use is 3sp:7sw:9ar. This is one of the better defenses in the game (very similar to the 1sw:1ar ratio), and takes a lot less time to recruit because of those 3 spears for every 7 swords and 9 archers (takes about 53 and a half days, which is a big difference from the previous 60 days).

Basically, my point is this information is definitely useful, though we just need to keep in mind the recruitment time. Ideally, seeing how we're at war, we should be trying to recruit not the perfect defense, but the perfect mix of good defense and quick recruitment times.

Also, most villages have a MAX of 21,000 troops... most often they don't even have that many because buildings usually take up 3k+ villagers.
BigDawgy said:
Yea, the time factor is huge as well as the travel factor. Swords only travel at 22 min per field, where spears and archers travel at 18 min per field. HC travel at 11 min per field. So if you have villages futher away from the front it is perferable to more HC, because your build time is cut way down casue you can build cav while building troops, also they can be used for spot support.

Another senario would be for vilalges way back from the front where you build the defense for LDS to other vilalges. This would be a good choice for the sword/archer defense.

It all depends on what you are trying to do.
Rqzaniq said:
Can i add this table here. It might be usefull...

Defence with build time and effectivness:


Rqzaniq said:
The following graph isn't mine, it was made by a friend, but you guys may also find it interesting to view this one as well, I quote:



as u can see the 5-5-0-0 is the basic defence 5 spears 5 swords

and the other reflect the difference using different tactic

why 10 as unit? because it work good to compare with HC tactic using the same amount of people and because u can easily multiply it for 200 and u have the 20k people u will in a full grow village but most of all because i decided to do so ^_^ (and actually it remind me about soccer team formation)



in this second table (the one where i got the graph from) very intresting is the time factor u can see that using HC u can make a full defence in less the half time and then u can notice difference in using material etcetc
cbjester24 said:
Titancrusher, I noticed you did your calcs with the three different types of defense all at once, but only used one type of unit per attack. What about calculations with mixed attacking armies? I'm sure they would look a bit different.

Real clearing attacks would usually have rams, right? A more typical attack other than 23,000 axes would look something like this:

tennismaster07 said:
A "healthy" village has about 3270 villagers used for buildings. This village has all buildings maxed except:
Level 20 HQ
Level 20 Market
No statue
Level 3 workshop
This village set-up is the style that I will be using in this guide.

With a maxed farm (level 30), this leaves 24000 - 3270 = 20,730 villagers available for troops. With those 20,730 villagers, this is how long it takes to make each army:

Army 1
4980 Axemen
3000 Light Cavalry
500 Mounted Archers
250 Rams

Army 2
6980 Axemen
2500 Light Cavalry
500 Mounted Archers
250 Rams

Army 3
6260 Axemen
2680 Light Cavalry
500 Mounted Archers
250 Rams
Using a 20,730 villager limit for both villages:

1:1 of swords/archers

Attacker Units: 0 0 6980 0 0 2500 500 0 250 0 0 0
Losses: 0 0 6980 0 0 2500 500 0 250 0 0 0

Defender Units: 0 10365 0 10365 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Losses: 0 5916 0 5916 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

Damage by rams: The wall has been damaged and downgraded from level 20 to level 14

Compared to a 2:3:5 of spears/swords/archers:
Attacker Units: 0 0 6980 0 0 2500 500 0 250 0 0 0
Losses: 0 0 6980 0 0 2500 500 0 250 0 0 0

Defender Units: 4146 6219 0 10365 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Losses: 2151 3227 0 5377 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

Damage by rams: The wall has been damaged and downgraded from level 20 to level 14

Sim 1 (1:1) Losses:
5,916 Swords @ 57% loss
5,916 Archers @ 57% loss
11,832 total losses
Build Time: 61.3 days
1,893,120 Total resources lost

Sim 2 (2:3:5) Losses:
2,151 Spears @ 51.8% loss
3,227 Swords @ 51.8% loss
5,377 Archers @ 57% loss
10,755 Total losses
Build Time: 57.75 days
1,634,730 Total resources lost

258,390 resource difference

It seems even if time was not a concern, the 1:1 ratio doesnt perform as well.

** Still editing, bear with me **
nappis said:
I have created an excel spreadsheet that duplicates the simulator for certain battle situations. I found that for like 95% of the time the most effective defensive ratio (only infantry) is 1 spaearmen:2 swordmen:1 archer. If you were to max your farm out with this ratio it would be the my optimal defensive village. Combined with your paladin you can send this army as support and it will cause alot of damage to any attacking army.
[/spoil]

How many Rams to use


[spoil]
Mimelim said:
I'm sorry Skymage, but you are simply wrong. Combat effectiveness of the wall reaches a bottom level when you hit about 235 rams. This includes against stacked villages with a full wall.



Take for example, 40k/40k with a lvl 20 wall defending against a 6000/3000/xxx army where xxx is a number between 0 and 600 rams, obviously the offensive army loses, but take a look at the number of defensive troops that die:



Rams ---> spears/swords lost

0 rams --> 1496/1496

50 rams --> 1668/1668

100 rams --> 1861/1861

150 rams --> 2192/2192

175 rams --> 2315/2315

200 rams --> 2445/2445

225 rams --> 2582/2582

250 rams --> 2583/2583

300 rams --> 2583/2583

450 rams --> 2585/2585

600 rams --> 2587/2587



Notice what happens when you hit 225 rams? If you take some of the simulator replicators that are floating around, you will find that the magic number of rams to diminish combat effectiveness is either 218 or 235 depending on your formula.

windsage said:
Notice that the actual effectiveness levels out at about 230. That's why it's a good number. When you hit really stacked villages, the idea is to maximize the initial hits with even more rams. Not to make the attack itself more effective, but to get an extra level or 2 of wall down. This makes future attacks more effective. A really stacked up village might take 3,4 or even 5 full attacks to bring it down. I used to build 4500 LC / 400 Ram gate crashing armies for this, but they take a long time to build.

kobooldninja.5 said:
219 is a pretty typical number (thanks to Trynthlas on w5 for that optimal number).

Later in the game, I start using 400 ram nukes to deal with incredibly stacked villages.

windsage said:
219 has been determined to be the optimal number based on a full nuke clearing a village. If the village is stacked up, then more rams is actually better. I normally use 230. Many people use 250. When I know the village is stacked up, I have used 400 before.

ashitaka-chan said:
It depend on your enemy's strength. In world 4 I usually attack villages that have 50k spears and 50k swords as defense, followed with 3-5k of heavy cavalry, so my attack look something like this:

3500 axe, 3000 LC and 700-1000 rams.

Here is one report

1) Attacker: x
Village: x

Quantity: 0 0 5004 0 2885 0 600 0 0
Losses: 0 0 5004 0 2885 0 600 0 0


Defender: x
Village: x

None of your troops have returned. No information about the strength of your enemy's army could be collected.


Damage by rams: The wall has been damaged and downgraded from level 20 to level 17

Gicusan said:
In the middle and late game, especially against an active member, it is not important how much more you kill with your 235 or 300-my favorite- number of rams. it matters a lvl or 2 of wall you diminish. Because after the first army, another hits, stronger, with lower wall and greater success. Most of the times, if you play your cards right and use your fakes smart, you are not going to find 40k each or something like that. Most usually you find 15-25 k each if he is smart and active. Than a few more rams counts as you lower the wall faster and you hit will full force.
[/spoil]

Common Defenses: Build times and effectiveness

[spoil]
Beelze said:
Guess Im teh new graph whore! :D

Defence again with build time and effectivness:

10-10-0-0 : 10000 Spears, 10000 Swords, 0 Archers, 0 HC
Numbers are only relevant for Def values. Everything including time is scaled to see the difference.

* Resources added (Scaled down)

Cory9289 said:
I'll be making a few graphs every now and then. Including offense graphs and defense. Don't be afraid to suggest a ratio, I'll do it as I'm bored. Note that they aren't of top quality.


Ratios of SP/SW/AR/HC.

Cory9289 said:


From my view, if you have time on your hands. Barrack units provide the best ratio.

Cory9289 said:
I couldn't compare with those as 1-0-9-1 has 16 villagers and the ones you listed has 20 villagers. But here's the graph.


[/spoil]

Offensive Armies (from w5)

[spoil]
tennismaster07 said:
This guide will help determine which troops to recruit when building an offensive army. Keep in mind, fastest recruitment is not always best, and it's always good to play around with troop ratios in your offenses/defenses. Also, ALWAYS remember that it depends on what the defender has in his village when trying to find "the best offensive army."

A "healthy" village has about 3270 villagers used for buildings. This village has all buildings maxed except:
Level 20 HQ
Level 20 Market
No statue
Level 3 workshop
This village set-up is the style that I will be using in this guide.

With a maxed farm (level 30), this leaves 24000 - 3270 = 20,730 villagers available for troops. With those 20,730 villagers, this is how long it takes to make each army:

Army 1
4980 Axemen
3000 Light Cavalry
500 Mounted Archers
250 Rams

Army 2
6980 Axemen
2500 Light Cavalry
500 Mounted Archers
250 Rams

Army 3
6260 Axemen
2680 Light Cavalry
500 Mounted Archers
250 Rams

Overall

Army 1: 16 Days, 5 Hours, 35 Minutes
Code:
Barracks:                              11 Days, 19 Hours, 35 Minutes
Stable:                                16 Days, 5 Hours, 35 Minutes
Workshop:                              7 Days, 18 Hours, 31 Minutes, 40 Seconds
Time it takes to recruit this army:    16 Days, 5 Hours, 35 Minutes
Wood Needed:                           873,800
Clay Needed:                           549,400
Iron Needed:                           1,074,200
Army 2: 16 Days, 13 Hours, 28 Minutes, 20 Seconds
Code:
Barracks:                              16 Days, 13 Hours, 28 Minutes, 20 Seconds
Stable:                                14 Days, 1 Hour, 38 Minutes, 20 Seconds
Workshop:                              7 Days, 18 Hours, 31 Minutes, 40 Seconds
Time it takes to recruit this army:    16 Days, 13 Hours, 28 Minutes, 20 Seconds
Wood Needed:                           931,300
Clay Needed:                           559,400
Iron Needed:                           1,029,200
Army 3: 14 Days, 20 Hours, 28 Minutes, 20 Seconds
Code:
Barracks:                              14 Days, 20 Hours, 28 Minutes, 20 Seconds
Stable:                                14 Days, 20 Hours, 20 Minutes, 20 Seconds
Workshop:                              7 Days, 18 Hours, 31 Minutes, 40 Seconds
Time it takes to recruit this army:    14 Days, 20 Hours, 28 Minutes, 20 Seconds
Wood Needed:                           910,600
Clay Needed:                           555,800
Iron Needed:                           1,045,400

In conclusion:
A few things need to be said about these numbers.

First, as always, an offensive army's usefulness depends on the defense in the target village.

Second, as you can see, Army 3 is the fastest to build, with the Stable units and Barracks units taking almost the exact same amount of time to recruit. With no mounted archers, you can recruit more light cavalry, and less axemen to recruit this offensive army even more quickly. However, not having mounted archers is not always a good thing, as explained below.

Third, these numbers can fluctuate. I used 250 Rams and 500 Mounted Archers in every set, because those are the most common amounts. Most people have 225-275 Rams in each offensive army, so I used 250. Most people have 300-700 Mounted Archers in each offensive army, so I used 500.

With more Mounted Archers, you'd have to make more axemen and less Light Cavalry to keep recruitment times low. I included these two "general amounts" because with too many (or too few), your offensive army is not as good against standard defenses, so an army with too few/many Rams or too few/many Mounted Archers is not often good for a consistent offensive army; it is more of a specialized army than a consistent offensive army, and it shouldn't be recruited in every village.

For example, I know some people like to have completely "Cavalry" villages, in which all they have are Light Cavalry and Mounted Archers. This is not a good consistent offensive army. It is a good Specialized Army, and out of 200 villages (100 defensive, 100 offensive), I would probably make 5-10 "Cavalry" villages, simply for speed. I'd make about 75-85 have "consistent offensive armies" similar to the three styles I listed above (Army 1, Army 2, Army 3), and probably about 5-10 villages would have more rams for the initial strike on a heavily defended village. The remaining offensive villages would probably also be specialized in one way or another.

Some might have more rams, others might have no rams, and others might have about 13,000 axemen with only about 1000 light cavalry, 500 mounted archers, and 250 rams, etc.
[/spoil]